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-   -   The 2016 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1735482-2016-ba-compensation-thread-your-guide-regulation-261-2004-a.html)

corporate-wage-slave Dec 31, 15 7:18 am

The 2016 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004
 
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6...0/2014.007.jpg

1) Introduction
This is the 2016 version of a thread intended to help FlyerTalkers who think they may be entitled to compensation when flying on British Airways. This is not about the rights and wrongs of compensation culture, this is merely a set of reference material to help flyers. It is also not exhaustive, so we are focusing on the BA aspects of this. This thread could go on indefinitely, so we merely point to other places for more detailed guidance. At the end of this post is a list of links which you may find useful, and then the following posts give some further information of some key topics. We also need to point out that these hints from an internet bulletin board are no substitute for professional legal advice.
With best wishes and happy trouble-free flying from:
corporate-wage-slave, Dave Noble, dunk, NickB, Prospero, RedVee, Stez, stifle, Tobias-UK, uk1.

2016 Update:
There was a very substantial number of posts in 2014 and 2015, a lot connected with the issue of technical delays. This issue has been resolved since the Huzar case, and so to prevent new posters from being overwhelmed with a mass of posts, we have taken the decision to restart the thread as of January 2015. If you are specifically looking for material relating to the Huzar case (where technical delays and cancellations were not deemed extraordinary circumstances) have a look at post 6 here, and there is a lot of detail in the latter stages of the 2014 thread indicated below.

Previous threads can be found here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...61-2004-a.html - the thread for 2015 - lots of experience in here.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...61-2004-a.html - this is the 2014 thread, which started before the Huzar case was concluded.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...3-archive.html (this was a beta thread, a lot has been overtaken by events).

Important point: if you wish to have a claim for EC261 compensation considered, you need to specifically ask for it. BA are unlikely to volunteer you for compensation unless there is a specific request.

Contents
Post 1 - this posting - a short summary, and a suggested process for claims
Post 2 - Duty of Care
Post 3 - Rights to compensation
Post 4 - Rights to reimbursement or re-routing
Post 5 - Downgrades
Post 6 - Complex ticketing.

2) Insurance
Please don’t forget to get good quality insurance. These regulations does not cover every situation, notably consequential losses (see below), and it is important to either get insurance or be in a position to self insure. Remember to programme your insurance details into your mobile telephone. For those based in the UK, the following travel insurance policies have been recommended by FlyerTalkers: American Express (though check to see if you are covered if you did not use your Amex card to buy the journey), Aviva, the Co-Op, Hiscox, John Lewis, Marks and Spencer, the Post Office. Note that some insurance policies have a legal advice component, which maybe useful in these situations.

3) Summary
On 17 February 2005, the European Union implemented Regulation 261/2004 (hereafter known as EC/261), designed to give protection to air pasengers for delays, cancellations, downgrades and cases of denied boarding throughout the European Union, and also to flights operated by European Union airlines, which includes British Airways. So all flights, from all airlines leaving the European Union, Norway and Switzerland are covered, as well as flights to the EU+Switzerland+Norway if provided by British Airways and European airlines. Airlines are obliged to inform passengers about their rights at check-in, and to provide more detailed information upon request. The burden of proof for most of the regulations lies with the airline, so it is up to them to prove they informed you of cancelled services or that the cause of the delay was "extraordinary circumstances".

4) Scope of EC/261
EC/261 covers the following areas
-Denied boarding (you turn up at the airport on time but are not allowed on to your booked service)
-Downgrades (flying at a lower class than booked)
-Delays (when you arrive late at your destination)
-Cancellations (when BA cancel your service altogether)
For the purposes of the regulations, you need to have a confirmed reservation, accepted and registered by the airline, and presented yourself for check-in before the deadline mentioned in Manage My Booking. Note that this is not the full scope of customer protection - you may be covered by other aspects of contract law, for example. The Warsaw Convention covers air disasters, the Montreal Convention covers damaged baggage and related areas. These are beyond the scope of this thread.

5) Categories of flights
First thing to understand is: which category does your flight fall under? This determines the level of compensation payable.

Category 1 - under 1501 km - LHR to FCO (Rome) is 1446 km
Category 2 - 1501 km to under 3500 km - LHR to BEY (Beirut) is 3486 km
Category 3 - 3501 km and higher

[Not applicable for BA's current routings, but journeys within the EU greater than 3500 km fall into Category 2]
You can Google distances to find out distances, but travelmath.com is one of several websites in this area;

6) Denied boarding
This rarely happens on BA, but if the flight is overbooked, BA is supposed to ask for volunteers – passenger who are prepared to travel on another flight in return for compensation. This level of compensation is open to BA to define. If there are involuntary denied boarding is necessary then the compensation is as outlined below in section 11. This provision also applies for those wrongly denied boarding for reasons other than overbooking. For example if an airline refuses travel because they had wrongly assumed the passenger did not possess the correct travel document or entry clearance. Note that just because some other website suggests that the flight looks overbooked does not mean that BA will be denying boarding or downgrading. It happens, but it's quite rare, and if it is going to happen it will become apparent only in the last 2 hours or so before departure.

7) Downgrades
If BA downgrades your flight of travel you are entitled to a refund on your ticket. This is 30% for Category 1 flights (see section 5), 50% of Category 2, 75% of Category 3. Now it is not entirely clear in the Regulations as to whether that is the whole ticket, including unaffected sections of that ticket. Therefore the range of options varies from 75% of the whole ticket (out and back) as purchased, down to 30% of the implied cost of the sector affected (which could be a relatively small amount of money if that sector is a small add-on to a long haul journey). However the CAA has advised us that their interpretation is that the whole ticket is used to calculate downgrades, not just the affected leg; equally we know of situations where BA only compensated the effected leg. Also note that you may be entitled to further consumer protection: for example if the Regulation's compensation was less than the amount paid the upgrade (such as an airport upgrade) then there may be scope for a challenge under contract law.

8) Delays and cancellations
Cancellations and delays against your final arrival time entitle you to a duty of care, and in many cases compensation. This area has recently been clarified in appeal judgements. To simplify a complex area, delays greater than 2 to 4 hours can result in compensation of between €125 and €600 per person (depending on flight category), if BA were responsible for that delay. See sections 11 and 12, and Post 3 and 4 for more details about compensation and reimbursement/re-routing respectively.

9) Duty of care
See Post 2 for a detailed examination of this area. In all situations BA should offer a duty of care to passengers facing travel disruption in all situations where you hold a confirmed reservation. The regulations specifically include: food, drink, hotel accommodation if any overnight delay, and communications. Typically BA hands out vouchers that can be used in airside establishments, or will arrange hotels for you - often BA does a reasonable job in this area compared to other airlines. If you have access to a lounge then it is unlikely to be reasonable to ask for additional food and drink vouchers, unless the lounge facilities have only a restricted range of refreshments.

10) Changes to existing bookings
If you are given more that 14 days notice of a change then you are not entitled to compensation for the delay. You are entitled to a refund or a rebooked service, it's your decision. See Post 3 about the duty of care aspects.

11) How much do I get?
This section applies for delays, cancellations and denied boarding. Below gives the standard amount of compensation payable if you are delayed by more than the number of hours shown. Note that an airline is able to invoke "extraordinary circumstances" as a reason for not paying compensation for delays and cancellations, but not for denied boarding or downgrades.

11.1) For delays (not cancellations)

See post 3, question 2 for the full payment matrix.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-a.../Compo.002.png

To be clear: a flat delay, without rerouting and/or cancellation, needs at least 3 hours late against the advertised arrival time, and doors opened ready for passengers to leave. So probably for most passengers, where they find themselves waiting at an airport, or waiting for take off, for a long period - it's only the arrival time / door open that matters and if must be at least 3 hours for eligibility for any compensation applies. For longer trips - over 3,500 km (basically the distance from London to Beirut) - then you will get full compensation after a 4 hour delay, and a reduced 50% rate for delays between 3 and 4 hours. This is purely for delays, and it is calculated on arrival time, not all the hanging around at departure.

A Reduced Amount (50% reduction) applies if BA re-routes you on another service that gets you to your destination, see the next section on cancellations. If you are NOT rerouted, just delayed, AND your delay is below three hours, you are not eligible for compensation under EC/261. See section 5 on categories and section 7 for the separate arrangements for downgrades and finally Post 3 below has more detailed information on this area. In some cases BA will hand over a pre-paid debit card, holding some or all of this money - you need to check whether acceptance of this card is for goodwill, towards meeting their EC/261 responsibilities or both. Generally BA treats it as a payment under the Regulations, in the case of downgrades it is unlikely to be the full amount.

[There is often confusion in this area and part of the reason for this is that there is nothing written in the Regulations about paying compensation for delays. The law has changed as a result of judicial rulings that have related delays to the Regulation's wording on cancellations].

11.2) For cancellations

For cancellations and / or when you are rerouted on to another service, some shorter delays attract a half rate payment. If the reroute involves departing less than an hour early, AND arriving less than 2 hours late at the original destination airport, there is no compensation, no matter what (Regulation 5.1.c.iii). The following diagrams explain what happens if the delay is longer and/or you need to leave more than an hour early.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-y.../Compo.004.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z.../Compo.005.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-y.../Compo.006.png

12) Which delays not entitled to compensation?
Weather delays, strikes, Airport Traffic Control problems. Basically any item outside British Airways direct control. Plus all delays below 2, 3 or 4 hours, depending on category, unless BA re-routes you (see end of section 11). There is a grey area in respect of Category 1 delays between 2 and 3 hours. The appeal rulings certainly gives protection from 3 hours, but since the original Regulations did not clearly specify delay compensation there is a potential gap here. On the other hand delays from rerouting, cancellations and denied boarding do kick in for category 1 delays under 3 hours. See also Post 3 for more information.

13) When can I abandon my flight and get a refund?
After 5 hours delay. This is in BA’s Terms and Conditions, and applies even if BA is not at fault (e.g. weather).

14) What about technical failures causing delays?
Broadly speaking airlines cannot use technical failure to avoid their responsibilities in this area, and therefore compensation is payable. However it is possible for some technical failure to be considered “extraordinary circumstances”, see Post number 3 below.

15) What about knock-on effects?
This relates to disruption caused by aircraft being in the wrong place, at the wrong time, leading to you being disrupted. For example if you are due to fly from Cape Town to London but your aircraft is still stuck in New York due to a blizzard. In that situation you should be entitled to compensation.

16) My flight was outside Europe, am I still covered?
The regulations apply to all flights departing the EU, the European Economic Area (Norway, Iceland. Litchtenstein). plus Switzerland; and to journeys on EU carriers to these parts of Europe. This covers the majority of BA flights, but not Comair flights around South Africa, nor people on journeys such as BAH-DOH, SIN-SYD, and POS-UVF. However if you have been successful in making claims involving these sectors please let us know. See also Post 6.

17) I am on a connecting flight. I am in LHR T5, my next flight is now so late it’s not worth me going. What should I do?
The airlines probably don’t like this feature of the regulation, but if your connecting flight is delayed by more than 5 hours so as to make the purpose of your travel meaningless, you are entitled to be flown back to your starting point AND get a full refund of the entire journey. Note that BA specifically requires evidence as why the trip has to be abandoned. See Post X for more details.

18) Will BA re-route me on to another airline?
Generally BA are reluctant to do this, particularly if the other airline is not a oneworld carrier. However BA recently seem more willing to do this to minimise compensation payments. However note that this seems to be restricted to changes made by airport based staff. BAEC telephone agents and online services do not offer this option, however the GGL phone line sometimes rearranges flights on other airlines.

19) BA flew me to LGW, but I was booked to LHR, can I claim the cost of getting to LHR from BA?
Yes, if BA made that decision for you, so long as the cost is reasonable.

20) BA cannot get me to Edinburgh on time but can get me to Newcastle, and I can take a train from there. Can I claim the cost from BA of going from NCL to EDI?
If your booking is for Edinburgh but you offer to go to NCL instead of EDI to reduce your delay, BA may well accept your offer. However BA are not obliged in that situation to pay for your onwards travel from NCL to EDI, since they may propose to you that you sit out the delay. In any event you are still free to negotiate that point with BA, should the situation arise.

21) Can I make my own arrangements and charge back BA?
In some situations you will have no choice. BA will often arrange duty of care aspects themselves, including hotel accommodation, but in the event of widespread disruption you may well be best to sort out your own accommodation. However you need to do your best to keep the cost down to a reasonable level. You can even negotiate with the hotel for a discounted rate because of this. You should also ring your insurers before making bookings.

22) My plane was not cancelled but delayed for 24 hours, am I entitled to compensation?
This area changed after an appeal case was brought to the European Courts, which ruled that an aircraft that was delayed more than 3 hours was to be treated the same as a cancellation. If you had a delayed flight of this sort from previous years you are now able to claim them from BA, since claims were “stayed” until the appeal was completed on 23 October 2012.

23) Am I covered for consequential losses?
Not from the Regulations, For example if your delayed flight means you miss a night of a pre-paid hotel, then that’s one for your insurance policy. Ditto car parking charges. However Article 12 does indicate that passengers can seek further compensation from the airline, and you may have other consumer protection legislation to consider.

24) Are Avios bookings covered?
Yes. Specifically in Article 3.3

25) Are 2-4-1 voucher bookings covered?
We don’t know for sure and they are not specifically mentioned in the Regulations. However the CAA has advised us that if the 2-4-1 voucher ticket - which cost taxes and surcharges - thereby are not free and therefore are covered by the Regulations to the extent of the money spent on them. Free tickets are not. We welcome any feedback from specific cases.

26) Can I ask for Avios instead of cash?
There are reliable reports of travellers asking BA to credit them with 50,000 Avios instead of €600. This is arguably a fair outcome for both sides.

27) Suggested process
If you think you have a claim, here is a suggested way forward. Note that if you look around the internet there are some companies that apparently handle claims for you, in return for a hefty proportion of the compensation. We are not making a recommendation one way or the other, however if you have legal protection insurance this will increase the options in this area.

a) Contact BA Customer Services, outline your complaint succinctly and focusing on the key points.
This can be done by telephone or webform: login via your BAEC account, at the bottom of the page go to Help and Contacts, then Contact Us / Making A Complaint / "Email us via our webform". With the webform you should be able to get a reference number within a few hours to track your case. However do not threaten legal action at this point since BA may batten down their hatches. It is important you specifically claim for EC/261 compensation.

The English language form is currently here (it may move over time):
http://www.britishairways.com/travel...club/_gf/en_gb

And BA's own guidance is in the penultimate paragraph here:
http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/...n-compensation

Alternatively you can write to them at this address:

British Airways Customer Relations
EU Compensation Claims
PO Box 1126
Uxbridge
UB8 9XS
United Kingdom
Fax: +44 1787 88140

Note that the EC has issued some claim forms here:
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...nt_form_en.pdf

Filling in this form (with a pen!) may be helpful in some circumstances, since the layout asks the right questions. But BA do not require it and in any case they rely on their own records to fulfil the data side. On the other hand it does provide an easy way of sending the form to the enforcement body (the CAA) if there is no reply after 6 weeks, but we are sceptical as to the benefit this gives, it certainly doesn't speed up or enforce payment.

If your flight begins BA82nn then your flight was operated by Sun Air in Denmark, so you need to address your claim to: Sun Air of Scandinavia A/S, Customer Relations, Cumulusvej 10, Billund, DK-7190, Denmark.

b) If you are still not happy?
Write again to Customer Services, referencing EC/261. Ideally be specific as to what you want and why. Again don't threaten legal action, but perhaps use a phrase like "I am unable to let the matter rest at this point".

c) Not getting anywhere?
Write to the Sudbury address as above, detailing precisely what compensation you are looking to receive, give BA 14 days to respond, “or legal remedies will be pursued”. On day 15, assuming no substantial reply, look to using MCOL (see below).

d) Is there anyone else I can contact?
The CAA is known as the National Enforcement Body for these Regulations. They have a team which examines complaints from airlines and can advise passengers with complaints. They do not try to enforce payment of compensation but can influence it. Their address is:
Regulatory Policy Group.
CAA House
45-59 Kingsway
London
WC2B 6TE
Telephone: 020 7453 6213
Full list of CAA contacts: http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=288

28) How long should I wait before hearing a reply from BA?
There are reliable reports of flyers getting compensation within a week of making contact. However it may take upto 6 weeks to get a substantial reply from customer services. However if you don't get an auto-acknowledgement within 24 hours to your email address, the you should follow up immediately. Though one part of the regulations require delays and cancellation compensation to be paid within 7 days, the reality is often very different and the CAA have advised us that they don't regard the Regulations as having a time limit. However bear in mind that if this is going to end up in court there may be time limits involved (6 years in England and Wales), so you should not let matters drift.

29) My ticket is issued by Qantas but British Airways operated the delayed flight, who do I write to?
British Airways. See Post 6 for more information.

30) What about connecting flights on the same booking (same PNR)?
These are covered, and what matters is the final destination timing. So if flight A is slightly late but you miss flight B and arrive very late, the delay at your final destination is what counts. So you would be covered by the regulations in this scenario, and BA would be responsible for getting you to your final destination. However if flight B was cancelled / delayed AND is not operated by BA AND is entirely outside Europe, then you would not be covered by the Regulations for flight B as far as cancel. See Post 6, Q3.

31) What about connecting flights on different bookings (different PNRs)?
Not covered by these regulations, beyond any remedy due from disruption off the first PNR. Even if both bookings are oneworld or even BA, the regulations will not protect you. However there is evidence that BA will rebook you on the next flight, if you are at airside Flight Connections and you allowed plenty of time for the connection. Again you may want to look at insurance, however in many cases the cover in this situation can be restricted.

31) What if I turn up for check-in and my reservation hasn't been ticketed?
This is a grey area but it does occasionally happen. You think you have a confirmed reservation, maybe you have selected seats, you arrive at the airport in good time for the flight and discover that your ticket has not been properly issued. Phone calls are made, maybe you can't get hold of your travel agent or BAEC if an Avios reservation, and you miss your flight. BA have been known to dispute Denied Boarding claims in this situation since they argue that you did not hold a confirmed reservation. Indeed they have argued this when it was an internal error within BA that caused this to happen, but have paid up when challenged further. However it is a good idea to check you are fully ticketed before flying. One easy way is to do Online Check-in 24 hours before flying. If you have not been fully ticketed you will be unable to complete Online Check-in, and you should then call BA to find out why.

32) What if I have a connecting flight on one ticket/PNR, my first flight is 4 hours late, but I have a long connection time. Therefore I make my final destination on the original flight and arrive without a delay?
We don't know for sure. If there was a delay to the first flight then it seems unlikely, since the key issue is the final arrival time. If there's a denied boarding or cancellation, leading to re-routing, then the case is more arguable. See this post for more information. Also it remains unclear if there was a multi-city itinerary. You would have in this situation (and unusually) have more protection with separate PNRs as far as compensation is concerned (but not necessarily the other aspects of the regulation such as the right to care).

33) Flights to and from Israel
Israel has a very similar piece of legislation to EC 261, Israel Aviation Services Law. Though the framework is almost identical, all the details are different to the EU scheme. In broad terms it is more generous to the passenger than the EU scheme for cancellations and denied boarding but does not provide monetary compensation for delays. See the reference section for details.

34) Legal process
Hopefully you don’t need to worry about this section. We feel this is beyond the scope of our advice, however in broad terms there is a small claims process in the UK, which can be done in person or online through the MoneyClaim service –see reference material below. The online version can be undertaken even if you are not a UK resident. However be aware that this is a non trivial process. It will take time and effort to pursue.

34a) Alternatives to MCOL / legal processes
BA now participates in an independently run adjudication process run by CEDR. It has advantages and disadvantages over MCOL, but one clear advantage is that it doesn't appear to be restricted to those with a UK address, and there isn't a public hearing involved. This thread has more details and examples of it being used.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...cation-ba.html

35) Key jargon
CAA: Civil Aviation Authority - the National Enforcement Body (NEB) for EC261 in the United Kingdom. All EU members have to allocate a body in their country as their NEB, but each NEB has their own approach to the Regulations. In the case of the CAA it is arguably more of a guidance organisation rather than enforcement.

Wallentin-Hermann: A case from 2008 involving Alitalia which established that aircraft maintenance issues are not extraordinary circumstances.

Sturgeon: A case from 2009 involving Condor Air, which established that delays over 3 hours give rise to compensation if there are not extraordinary circumstances, and then started the groundwork that suggested delays cannot be used to hide flight cancellations.

36) Delays caused by technical issues
If your flight was delayed due to technical reasons, in almost all cases this is not "extraordinary circumstances" and can therefore be used as the basis for a successful claim. Follow the procedure in section 27 above, then if you had not had sufficient progress, follow the link below to the MoneyClaim online (MCOL) process. See also this thread 832 for a text book example.

37) Reference material

Links to:

Wiki article

Text of the regulations in PDF format

BA’s own section on EC261

BA's PDF section on the Israel Aviation Services Law

CEDR website (see 34a above)

Flightmole website - this has a lot of information on EC261.

Money Claim online website - this is a UK government service
This is an entirely online service, so in theory can be used by anyone anywhere against any company based in England and Wales. However the underlying documentation states that users can be "anywhere in the UK".

Making a court claim for money - a very basic guide from the UK government

There is also an App which you may be able to install on your mobile telephone or other Personal Electronic Device. For iPhones it is known as "Your Passenger Rights".

corporate-wage-slave Dec 31, 15 7:19 am

Post 2


Right to care (Article 9 of EC261):

Q1: When does the “right to care” consist of?
A1: The right to care entails:
a) Food and drink: Meals and refreshments “in a reasonable proportion to the waiting time”;
b) Communications: 2 telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails. In practice, airlines often give passengers a telephone card;
c) Accommodation: hotel accommodation where the passenger is rerouted (or the flight delayed) the next day or later as well as transport to/from the hotel.

Q2: When is it due?
A2: In case of delays, entitled to food and drink and communications arises when the delay is at least two hours for short-haul, 3 hours for medium-haul and 4 hours for long-haul. The Regulation does not state exactly when the duty arises in cases of cancellation or denied boarding but it is not unreasonable to assume that the airline may refuse care assistance under the same thresholds.
For hotel accommodation, in principle, the duty arises whenever an additional overnight stay is required as the result of the denied boarding/cancellation or delay.

Q3: The airline did not offer assistance. What should I do?
A3: If you have asked the airline for assistance and they have denied it in breach of the Regulation, you should keep all receipts and seek reimbursement from the airline’s customer relations service afterwards. In principle, you should however give the airline the opportunity to arrange assistance before making your own arrangements. In practice, BA is reasonably flexible on reimbursing reasonable expenses even if you have not contacted them first, and in many cases this is the only practical way to proceed, particularly if a large aircraft has suddenly "gone technical" at a small out-station late at night.

Q4: The airline has arranged overnight accommodation at a hotel I do not like and would prefer to book another hotel which is better or more convenient for me. Can I do this and get reimbursement from BA?
A4: In principle, no: you have to take what you have been given. You may well think that a Travelodge does not accord well with your First class travel arrangements. However, this is not an issue for EC261. That said, BA does tend to be reasonable here too - and they certainly have agreed to do this for status customers - but it would be wise to confirm with the BA representative that this is OK as this is purely a goodwill/commercial policy issue rather than a legal entitlement.

Q5: Does this also apply in case of cancellation that was notified to me more than 14 days in advance?
A5: While EC261 excludes compensation for cancellations that are notified more than 14 days in advance, there is nothing in its wording to suggest that the right to care does not apply in those situations. That said, a ‘common sense’ approach probably needs to be adopted in determining what the right to care covers here. It is far from clear, in particular, that a passenger could insist on making two phone calls at the expense of the airline. Whether the passenger can charge the airline for meals and refreshments is also debatable (except perhaps where the reschedule results in a long wait between flights at the airport). On the other hand, there is a stronger argument to be made for the airline to be responsible for providing accommodation when the new itinerary requires an additional overnight stay.
There is, in any event, no authoritative interpretation of the Regulation by a superior court of law to rely on here.

Q6: I have decided to abandon my trip or make my own alternative travel arrangements and get my ticket refunded. Can I rely on the right to care?
A6: In principle, no: once you have chosen to get a refund rather than get re-routed, you are ‘on your own’ regarding care arrangements. You may or may not have rights from other sources (such as the Montréal Convention) but EC261 would not apply here.
On the other hand, if the flight on which you are rerouted is further delayed and you decide at that point to cancel and get a refund, you would be entitled to care up to that point, but would have to bear your own costs after the point at which you cancel.

corporate-wage-slave Dec 31, 15 7:20 am

Post 3

Right to compensation (Article 7 of EC261):

Q1: When am I entitled to compensation?
A1: You are entitled to compensation if you are involuntarily denied boarding or if your flight is delayed more than 3 hours. Delays under 3 hours are not eligible for compensation. In case of cancellation, you are also entitled to compensation in the following circumstances:
a) You are given less than 7 days’ notice of the cancellation and you are offered rerouting which leaves more than an hour earlier than originally scheduled or arrives at your final destination more than 2 hours later than originally scheduled.
b) You are given between two weeks and 7 days’ notice of the cancellation and you are offered rerouting which leaves more than 2 hours earlier than originally scheduled or arrives at your final destination more than 4 hours later than originally scheduled.
Q2: How much compensation am I owed?
A2: Compensation varies depending on the distance of the flight, the standard amount is shown below. In addition, if by re-routing you the delayed arrival at final destination (compared to original schedule) is below a certain threshold, the airline can reduced the amounts by half (Reduced Amount), as per the table below. NOTE: If it was a simple delay, and no other complication such as rerouting, then a delay below 3 hours, even for short haul, gets NO COMPENSATION! If there is a cancellation or rerouting, then compensation MAY be payable for delays below 3 hours.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1.../Compo.007.png

Q3: In the case of a multi-leg itinerary, how is the distance calculated to determine the length of the ‘flight’?
A3: The regulation states that the relevant distance is calculated on the basis of the ‘last destination at which the denial of boarding or cancellation will delay the passenger’s arrival after the scheduled time’. In other words, the relevant distance is calculated up to the point where the passenger ‘catches up’ with the original itinerary, if at all.

Q4: In the case of a multi-leg itinerary, how is the delay calculated to determine whether the delay is greater than three hours and gives rise to compensation?
A4: According to the European Court of Justice in the Sturgeon case, it is the time of arrival at final destination taht matters. Thus, even if the original flight is delayed less than three hours, if that initial delay results in a misconnection with the consequence that the passenger arrives at final destination more than three hours later than originally planned, the passenger is in principle entitled to compensation.

Q5: Are there circumstances where the airline can refuse compensation?
A5: Yes: these are referred to in the Regulation as “extraordinary circumstances”. There is no definitive list of extraordinary circumstances. Broadly speaking, extraordinary circumstances are events that are outside the airline’s control and the concept also implies a departure from what can be expected in the normal course of operation.
As a rough rule of thumb, events such as weather delays, ATC delays, cancellations due to strikes or to political instability (war, terrorism threats, etc...),are usually regarded as constituting extraordinary circumstances. Even then, however, each case must be looked at on its merits to ascertain the “extraordinary” character of the event.

Q6: do delays and cancellations due to mechanical problems with the aircraft constitute “extraordinary circumstances”?
A6: the same principle applies for technical problems as for other extraordinary circumstances: ‘ordinary’ technical problems that occur in the normal course of business are not regarded as extraordinary circumstances. On the other hand, a delay that would result, for instance, of damage to the aircraft due to sabotage or terrorism, or a request by Boeing or Airbus to review certain mechanisms on all aircrafts of a particular model following the discovery of a hidden defect would constitute an ‘extraordinary circumstance”.
In practice, therefore, most mechanical problems are unlikely to constitute extraordinary circumstances.

Q7: I volunteered to be off-loaded in an overbooking situation and I was given less than the amounts indicated here. Can I claim for more now?
A7: In principle, no: the amounts of compensation specified in the Regulation apply to involuntary denials of boarding. If you volunteer to be offloaded, you are not involuntarily denied boarding. What you are entitled to is what you agreed with the agent when volunteering to be off-loaded. That said, if the airline did not inform you of your rights under R261/2004 and, as a consequence, you accepted less, you could claim the difference between what you have been offered and what you would have been entitled to under the Regulation.

corporate-wage-slave Dec 31, 15 7:21 am

Post 4

Right to reimbursement or re-routing (Article 8 of EC261):

Q1: I no longer wish to travel. Can I get a refund of my ticket?
A1: You can get a refund of your ticket in case of denied boarding and in case of cancellation of your flight.
In case of delay to your flight, the Regulation states that you are entitled to a refund if the delay exceeds five hours. There is an argument that can be made that an entitlement to a refund exists for shorter delays but that is speculative. In any event, BA will usually accept to refund your ticket if the delay is non-trivial and you no longer wish to travel, however the formal time period is 5 hours.

Q2: I have already started to travel. Am I entitled to a refund of the whole ticket?
A2: If you are on the outbound part of your journey and the journey would no longer serve any purpose in the light of the delay in the journey, you are entitled to a refund of the whole ticket as well as a (free) return flight to your point of origin. Thus, if you are flying from Hamburg to Chicago via Heathrow and the LHR-ORD flight is cancelled while you are in transit in London and the rerouting options offered would result in your arriving too late in Chicago and negate the purpose of your journey, BA would have to fly you back to Hamburg and reimburse the whole ticket. BA specifically asks for proof that your trip no longer serves its original purpose.
If, on the other hand, you have stopped over in London for a few days and intend to resume your onward journey to Chicago when the flight is cancelled, you would only be entitled to reimbursement of the part of the journey that you have not flown. The Regulation suggests that BA would still have to fly you back to Hamburg if you so wish. If you do, it is likely that BA would only have to refund the LHR-ORD-LHR part of the journey rather than LHR-ORD-LHR-HAM.

Q3: I do not want a refund. I just want to get to my destination. Must I be offered re-routing?
A3: Yes: the airline has an obligation to offer you re-routing and it is up to you to choose between refund or re-routing.

Q4: I do not like the re-routing option I have been offered. Can I ask for alternative flights?
A4: You can always ask for alternative flights if what you have been offered is unsuitable for one reason or another. If what you would prefer is to take another BA flight on the same day, or the day before or after, BA will normally be accommodating provided there is availability. Ultimately, though, you do not have a right to insist on any flight of your choice. You are expected to accept the flights offered to you as long as they comply with the requirements of the Regulation: as long as the airline has offered you re-routing ‘under comparable transport conditions’ and ‘at the earliest opportunity’, it has in principle fulfilled its duty under the Regulation. If this does not satisfy you, you always have the opportunity to ask for a refund instead of a re-routing or a re-routing at a later date (see Q6 below).

Q5: I have been offered re-routing departing tomorrow. I noticed, however, that there is a flight on another airline that can get me back home much earlier. Can I insist that BA puts me on that other airline’s flight?
A5: The obligation on the airline is to re-route you under comparable transport conditions to your final destination “at the earliest opportunity”. Thus, if there are two BA flights to your destination and seats are available on both, you could insist on being put on the earlier flight. However, the Regulation is silent as to whether the obligation extends to putting you on any flight, including other airlines’ flights.
Most airlines take the view that they are only obliged to re-route you on their own flights and that, if they reroute you on another airline, it is a commercial gesture rather than a legal obligation. There does not appear to be any authoritative court judgment on this issue so this is a grey area.
In practical terms, the more expensive your ticket and the longer the alternative wait, the more likely it is that BA will agree to put you on an alternative carrier.

Q6: The alternative flights I have been offered are not very attractive. I would rather give up on this journey and fly again in a month’s time. Can I do that?
A6: Yes, the Regulation provides for a third option, beyond refund and immediate rerouting: you can ask to be re-routed to your final destination at a later date of your convenience. This, however, is subject to there being availability in the same booking class as your original ticket. The Regulation does not specify a deadline by which the flight has to be taken. It is reasonable to assume that you can book any flight currently open to reservation (i.e. normally 330 days ahead) subject to availability in the relevant booking class.

Q7: I have noticed that there is a BA flight leaving earlier than the one on which I have been offered re-routing. However, I have been told that I cannot get on that flight because my ticket is a frequent flyer ticket and there is no award availability on that flight. Can I be denied re-routing on the earlier flight?
A7: If you are asking for re-routing ‘at the earliest opportunity’, then the answer is no: as long as there is a seat in the same cabin as your original ticket, you should be offered it, regardless of booking class. If, on the other hand, you are asking to be re-routed at a later date of your own convenience, then the airline can indeed refuse to rebook you unless there is availability in the appropriate booking class.

Q8: There is an earlier flight available but it only has seats in Club Europe whereas my ticket is in Euro-traveller. Can I insist to be re-routed on that earlier flight?
A8: This is a grey area but the answer to the question for the time being is likely to be: “on balance, perhaps not”. The Regulation does require the passenger to be re-routed “at the earliest opportunity”. On the other hand, it also states that the passenger must be re-routed ‘under comparable transport conditions’, which probably means, among other things, in the same class of travel. Whether the “comparable transport conditions” requirement can be interpreted to the detriment (rather than the advantage) of the passenger is debatable. However, we do not have authoritative court judgments on this for now and there is at least one small claims court judgment in the UK finding in favour of the airline on this issue.

Q9: I understand that I have to be offered rerouting “under comparable transport conditions”. What does this actually mean?
A9: There is no definition of ‘comparable transport conditions’ in the Regulation nor has there been to date any authoritative judicial pronouncement on the matter. It is generally assumed to imply the same class of travel. It could also conceivably cover comparability of number of flights/stopovers. In that sense, an alternative flight with connections may perhaps not necessarily be regarded as constituting “comparable transport conditions” to a direct, non-stop flight.
Some FTers take the view that comparable transport conditions implies looking in more details at the characteristics of the product offered beyond the mere classification as “business class” or “economy class”. They would argue, for instance, that a business class product featuring a lie-flat seat is not comparable to a business class product with a cradle seat or with a ‘middle-seat free’ intra-European business class-style product. From that perspective, they would argue that there are no comparable transport conditions when a short-haul B767 is substituted to a long-haul B767, since the former involve a CE type product whereas the latter a CW-type product. It is, however, doubtful, albeit not entirely impossible, that the intention behind the Regulation was for courts to engage in substantive product comparisons between carriers. To that extent, the conventional view is that such differences are probably not what is meant by the use of the phrase “comparable transport conditions” in the legislation.

Q10: Will BA reroute me to a different destination?
A10: BA may reroute you to a different airport serving the same city (eg: LCY instead of LHR) or the same region (eg: GLA instead of EDI or MCO instead of TPA) but they are unlikely to routinely reroute you to an entirely different region or country unless there are special circumstances in your case.

Q11: I have been offered a flight landing at LGW instead of LHR (or GLA instead of EDI). Do I have to accept it and who pays for the transport from LGW to LHR (or GLA to EDI)?
A11: The Regulation contemplates that a passenger may be carried to an alternative airport serving the same town, city or region but is silent on whether the passenger has to accept such alternative. In practice, unless the original airport is no longer served by BA (eg: a service is switched from LHR to LGW), BA will normally offer a reroute to the originai airport if the passenger wishes. If a passenger is offered re-routing to an alternate airport and accepts it, the airline will have to provide onward transportation to the original destination airport or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger at no additional cost to the latter. If the airline does not make transport arrangements, the passenger should be able to claim reimbursement of the cost of the bus/train/taxi as appropriate.
The situation is greyer when the passenger takes the initiative of suggesting a change of destination (eg: offers to take a flight to GLA or NCL rather than EDI and make his/her own way from GLA or NCL to EDI). It is likely that, in that situation, the airline could legitimately ask the passenger to bear his or her own onward transportation costs from the airport (NCL in this example) as long as the airline did offer re-routing to the original airport.

Q12: Does this also apply when I have been offered a flight departing from an alternative airport or where one of my connections is changed and now involves a change of airport?
A12: The Regulation only explicitly contemplates the situation where the arrival airport is an alternative airport. It would be in keeping with the spirit of the Regulation to extend that situation to departure and transit airports and there is a fairly high chance that this is how the European Court of Justice would interpret the Regulation. There is, however, no authoritative judicial precedent to rely on to date.

Q13: I have an onward flight on a separate reservation. Will BA change my second reservation too if the first flight is delayed or cancelled?
A13: In principle, from a formal-legal perspective, BA has no obligation to change your reservation under a separate transportation contract on a different ticket because of delays on the first one. If, therefore, you miss your onward flight on a separate reservation, it is your problem and you may have to buy a new ticket. You might have a recourse under the Montreal Convention if the delay to the original flight is attributable to BA and/or BA did not do all it could to avoid the delay or damage to you resulting from the delay. This, however, is beyond the scope of this FAQ.
In practice, if your onward flight is on BA itself, BA may try to put you on a later flight. This, however, is not something that you can rely on. If you want to be protected for misconnections, you should buy a through-ticket rather than buying separate tickets.

On anything other than a BA to BA connection, or one involving a oneworld airline, BA is unlikely to help you in case of misconnections on separate tickets.

corporate-wage-slave Dec 31, 15 7:21 am

Post 5

Downgrading (Article 10 of EC261):

Q1: Am I entitled to compensation if I have been downgraded?
A1: Yes, you are entitled to a fraction of the price paid for the ticket (note: the price actually paid, not the published fare nor the difference in fare between the paid-for class and the actual class of travel):
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-z.../Compo.008.png

Q2: Is this calculated by the reference to the price of the whole ticket or only the downgraded segment?
A2: The Regulation is unclear on this and there is no consensus on how this should interpreted. The airlines tend to take the view that the amount has to be pro-rated to the length of the segment in the overall itinerary. This is not an unreasonable position to take even though some will disagree that this is the correct interpretation of the Regulation. If that is so, the amount due could be very small if the downgrade is a short, connecting segment of a long-haul itinerary or of a round-the-world ticket. The CAA has advised us that their view is that whole ticket price should be used, but BA may well have another view.

Q3: I have been downgraded on the LHR-CDG segment of a LAX-LHR-CDG itinerary. Am I entitled to 30%, 50% or 75% of the price of the ticket?
A2: Again, the Regulation is unclear on this. On balance, one can put forward the view that there might be a somewhat stronger case for the ratio to be that of the distance on which the passenger is actually downgraded (therefore 30% in this example) but this is speculative at this stage.

Q4: What about tickets paid with Avios or some other frequent flyer currency?
A4: In principle, the Regulation applies to award tickets and the same ratio should, therefore, in principle apply. Thus, if the passenger paid 100 000 avios for a long-haul ticket, the passenger would be entitled to 75 000 avios back if downgraded (ignoring issues of pro-ration raised in Q2).
Difficulties can arise when the flight was paid by miles from an airline’s frequent flyer programme other than the operating airline's (eg: using AA miles for a BA booking). Theoretically, airlines within alliances should be able to notionally purchase frequent flyer miles from each other and, therefore, BA should theoretically be able to effect a reimbursement in AA miles if required. Another possibility, apparently practised by some airlines, is to calculate a cash reimbursement on the published fare rather than reimburse in frequent flyer miles. We do not have enough information at present to determine how these issues are handled by BA.

Q5: when I booked my ticket in J class, the flight was due to be operated by a long-haul 767. It is now due to be operated by a short-haul 767. Am I entitled to downgrade compensation?
A5: The conventional wisdom on this one is that there is no downgrade within the meaning of EC261, as long as the passenger remains accommodated in the business cabin on a business ticket or in economy on an economy ticket, even if the passenger may regard the quality of one business cabin as significantly below another. In that perspective, a switch from CW to CE would not be a downgrade, anymore than a switch from the business cabin of a top-class carrier to that of a mediocre one would be a downgrade within the meaning of the Regulation.
Some FTers, however, take a different view and consider that substantial quality differences between products are enough to regard a change as a downgrade within the meaning of the Regulation. There are no authoritative judicial pronouncements on this issue. (see also Q9 on “comparable transport conditions” in the FAQ on the right to reimbursement or re-routing)

Q6: Am I entitled to twice the compensation in case of a two-class downgrade?
A6: The Regulation does not seem to have contemplated what would happen in the case of a downgrade of more than one class. While double compensation is a defensible interpretation of the Regulation, it could equally be argued that a passenger is entitled to the same compensation in case of a two-class downgrade as in the case of a one-class downgrade.

Q7: I have been given immediate compensation by BA at the airport which is much below the refund level mentioned above. Am I entitled to more?
A7: The immediate compensation handed by BA at the airport is meant to be additional rather than replace the refund of the ticket provided for in the Regulation. The refund will be made to the person who originally paid for the ticket using the same channel/method as that used for the original payment rather than to the passenger as such.

corporate-wage-slave Dec 31, 15 7:22 am

Post 6

EC261 and more complex ticketing

Q1: My flight from LHR to HEL has been cancelled. I bought it on aa.com; it has a BA flight number and it is operated by AY. Who is responsible for re-routing me?
A1: If you bought your ticket on aa.com, AA will be the ticketing carrier. Your flight is under BA code. Therefore BA is the marketing carrier. Finally, your flight is operated by AY: AY is the operating carrier. EC261 places the obligations of care, refund/ rerouting and compensation on the operating carrier. In this example, it would therefore be AY who would have the responsibility under the Regulation to reroute the passenger.
This is indeed what happens when dealing with live problems on the spot at the airport. If, however, the problem arises in advance (say: your flight next week is cancelled), things get a little more complicated. Although the responsibility under the Regulation remains on the operating carrier, your ticket will need to be re-issued and this is normally done by the ticketing carrier. If you try to call the operating carrier, they will in all likelihood refer you back to the ticketing carrier (or the travel agent you booked your ticket with if you have used a travel agent). If you turn to the ticketing carrier, they are likely to offer you very limited rerouting options. In particular, if you are on an award ticket, they may only offer you rerouting on flights which still have award seats. What should happen is that the ticketing carrier should liaise with the operating carrier to get the operating carrier to solve the problem and then the ticketing carrier can reissue the ticket. It may, however, require perseverance to obtain this.

Q2: I am flying from DEL to IAH via LHR on BA. Am I covered by the Regulation if either of my flight is delayed or cancelled?
A2: BA is an EU carrier. If the operating carrier is an EU carrier, the Regulation states that it applies to passengers departing from or landing in the EU. One can reads this in two possible ways: a): the passenger origin or final destination for the overall journey must be in the EU or b): the origin or destination of the delayed or cancelled flight segment must be in the EU.
There does not appear to be any judicial precedent to clarify the matter for good. However, it seems probable that the Regulation should apply when the flight segment starts or finishes in the EU. Thus, in this example of a flight from DEL to IAH via LHR on BA, the Regulation would probably apply.

Q3: I am flying on BA to SYD, connecting to a domestic QF service to MEL. Am I covered by the Regulation if the QF flight from SYD to MEL is delayed or cancelled?
A3: The Regulation only applies to flights which start or finish in the EU. For the reasons mentioned in A16b, it probably means individual flight segments rather than overall itinerary and, therefore, the Regulation probably does not apply here. The same would also probably be true in the other direction, viz. delay to a QF flight from MEL to SYD connecting to a BA flight to LHR.

Q4: My BA flight from SIN to SYD,has been delayed or cancelled. Am I covered by the Regulation?
A4: This is a tricky one to which there is no definitive answer to date. If you are flying from LHR to SYD via SIN on BA on a single flight number, it is strongly arguable that you are covered by the Regulation, as you are departing from the EU on an EU carrier.
If, on the other hand, you are just flying from SIN to SYD, you are in all likelihood not covered by the Regulation.
If you are flying from the EU to SYD, connecting to BA in SIN from a different flight, the situation is especially unclear. On balance, the odds are that the Regulation may not apply here.

Q5: I am flying from JFK to LHR on a flight with a BA flight number operated by AA. Am I covered by the Regulation?
A5: Most probably not. When the carrier is not an EU carrier, the Regulation only applies to flights from the EU, not to flights to the EU. Thus, an AA flight to Europe would not come within the scope of the Regulation. The fact that the flight was booked under BA code should not make any difference.

Q6: I am flying to Gibraltar, is that covered by the Regulation
No. Due to the ongoing sovereignty dispute between the governments of the UK, Gibraltar and Spain, which sometimes impacts flights, it was left out of the regulations and that remains the case. There is a view that Gibraltar is now in scope, but there hasn't been a ruling by a senior court to be certain about this.

corporate-wage-slave Dec 31, 15 7:23 am

Letter / Notice Before Action

Here are some comments to help with any final letter you may send to BA prior to using MCOL. This can be regarded as best practice for this sort of claim, though it isn't actually mandatory. However if you do this it may assist you later. It is taken from the Practice Direction - pre-action conduct.

2. Claimant’s letter before claim
2.1 The claimant’s letter should give concise details about the matter. This should enable the defendant to understand and investigate the issues without needing to request further information. The letter should include –
(1) the claimant’s full name and address;
(2) the basis on which the claim is made (i.e. why the claimant says the defendant is liable);
(3) a clear summary of the facts on which the claim is based;
(4) what the claimant wants from the defendant; and
(5) if financial loss is claimed, an explanation of how the amount has been calculated.
It should also provided a date by which a full answer is expected. This isn't directly specified, but the implication of the rest of the guidance is that would be at least 2 weeks. For one person's experience at getting BA to pay (pre Huzar) see this post from the previous thread..

2014 Developments

How long do I have to submit my claim?
This is now settled in law, as a result of Dawson v Thomson Airways Ltd [2014]. Proceedings must commence within 6 years of the date of the incident being claimed. The Supreme Court dismissed Thomson's application to appeal on 31 October 2014.

What about the Huzar Case relating to disruptions due to technical reasons?
The UK Supreme Court has ruled on 31 October 2014 that it will not consider an appeal against a previous Appeal Court ruling. This means that the law relating to EC261 and delays caused by technical issues is clear: almost all such cases will not be considered "extraordinary circumstances" and therefore a long delay caused by a plane going "technical" would be grounds for claiming compensation. There could be some exceptions to this, the sort of examples mentioned in legal proceedings include where the aircraft manufacturer issued an urgent safety alert and thereby grounded aircraft. It can be assumed that this would be a very rare occurence, most "technical" cases would tend to be covered by the Regulations.

BA declined to pay me for a claim based on technical problems, can I go back to them now?
Almost certainly yes. Some technical problems can still be "extraordinary circumstances", for example if Boeing announced an emergency recall, but this would be very much the exception. The 6 year limit would probably not apply to older cases. It appears BA is paying both old and current claims in this area without hindrance.

corporate-wage-slave Dec 31, 15 7:24 am

This post is left blank for now - it will potentially be used for any special developments relating to EC261 during 2016.

corporate-wage-slave Dec 31, 15 8:02 am

There may be more work to do on this thread, but it can now be regarded as open for business.

I've not changed much of the wording from the previous year's thread, largely because it's been tried and tested repeatedly so I'm reluctant to make wholesale changes. But I have removed some graphics which caused confusion in some quarters. By all means let me know of other areas that appear incorrect or need improvement.

UKtravelbear Dec 31, 15 9:10 am

C-w-s we all owe you a huge dollop of gratitude for preparing the wiki and your constant assistance to posters asking for advice.

I get a feeling that recently that BA are behaving properly and paying up on clear cut claims quickly - assuming passengers make them in the first place! And are only really challenging the marginal cases.

So let's hope that continues and this thread is even shorter this year than last.

rbinlee Jan 1, 16 8:28 am

Compensation from BA for being denied boarding
 
I wonder if anyone can give me advice on how to claim compensation from BA. I had an extraordinary experience yesterday, which ended up with BA forcing me to miss my flight from London to Venice as a result of mistakes they made in the booking of my son and his girlfriend who were travelling with me. After arguing with them all day on the phone, I have managed to convince them to admit that mistakes were entirely their fault and they have refunded my ticket, although not my son's and his girlfriend's, because they ended up travelling later that day. However I do not think refunding for a journey I never took is the same as compensation for the distress they caused me, and for ruining my plans due to their mistakes, as well as for the appalling level of customer service I experienced, despite the fact we were travelling in club class and I am an executive club member (silver). Can anyone help, with advice?

corporate-wage-slave Jan 1, 16 8:40 am

Welcome to Flyertalk rbinlee, welcome to the BA forum. I'm pleased to see you here, but it doesn't sound like a good set of circumstances that brought you here.

There isn't really enough information about the cause of this problem, so I can only give a very general answer, and I suspect the devil is in the detail.

There is provision in the Regulations relating to Involuntary Denied Boarding, which you can see above. However BA set a high bar on that one and so you would need a particularly watertight case to get them to pay readily.

If you are Denied Boarding then the airline is still required to get you to your destination, as well as paying compensation. There is also provision to get a refund on your ticket instead. So it seems that potentially compensation may be payable to all the people in your party, depending on the underlying issues. That could be 250€ or 125€, depending on the details.

In addition to the provisions of the Regulation, which doesn't handle all customer service issues, you also have the Customer Relations channel of BA for any other aspects.

lorcancoyle Jan 1, 16 8:42 am


Originally Posted by rbinlee (Post 25945244)
I wonder if anyone can give me advice on how to claim compensation from BA. I had an extraordinary experience yesterday, which ended up with BA forcing me to miss my flight from London to Venice as a result of mistakes they made in the booking of my son and his girlfriend who were travelling with me. After arguing with them all day on the phone, I have managed to convince them to admit that mistakes were entirely their fault and they have refunded my ticket, although not my son's and his girlfriend's, because they ended up travelling later that day. However I do not think refunding for a journey I never took is the same as compensation for the distress they caused me, and for ruining my plans due to their mistakes, as well as for the appalling level of customer service I experienced, despite the fact we were travelling in club class and I am an executive club member (silver). Can anyone help, with advice?

If there was no problem with your booking and you chose not to travel I doubt that is covered under Ec261. If your son and his girlfriend were improperly denied boarding while having a valid document for travel then they might be entitled to involuntarily denied boarding compensation. Think more details on what the issue was etc. would be required for those more expert than me (plenty of them about) to opine

rbinlee Jan 1, 16 12:55 pm

Thank you lorcancoyle and corporate-wage-slave for your replies. I have been looking at this forum from time to time, and trying to understand what I read here, particularly about tier runs, but I haven't joined until now.

The story starts with a ticket I bought for my son and his girlfriend from LHR to Verona. After purchasing these tickets, which were discounted club class, I decided we would all spend New Year's Eve together in Venice and had to change their tickets to do that, and get myself a ticket, which is where the trouble began.

I made the change of date and destination on the phone with BA. After I was told what it would cost I was transferred to another department to purchase my flight. Then I was transferred back to complete the purchase of the changes, but in the time it took to do this, during which of course I was on hold for extended periods, the price of changing their tickets had gone up. I was very annoyed by this,since I felt that I was entitled to the price they had said at the beginning of the call, because the only reason for such a long delay was because of my being put on hold. The agent said he would get back to me, and eventually called me back that night at 9pm offering me a "compromise" price, of £340, which was more than the original £200 and less than the £480 that they had quoted. In other words, for one of the tickets I would pay only change fee of £100, and for the other the change fee plus upgrading to higher class for an additional £140. I accepted this, because there was no choice.

There were some complications later with my flight reservation, and changes I wanted to make on it, but that isn't really relevant to why they prevented me from flying.

The day before flying I tried to print out all of our boarding passes, but for some reason the website wouldn't let me, so I called BA. The agent also couldn't figure out what was preventing from printing them out, and put me on hold to talk to someone, and then came back and said I would just have to print them at the airport. I wanted to make sure they would sit together, and she told me seat assignments had been assigned, and gave me the seat numbers. I still insisted that I should be able to print out the boarding passes, and that I didnt see why I was not allowed to, since it would give me a sense of security, and didnt want to have any problems at the airport. the agent refused to take it further and insisted I would have no problems at the airport.

When we got to the airport, none of our boarding passes could be printed out, so we went to the desk and they printed out mine, and accepted my bag to check in, but said we had to go to the customer services desk because the other two boarding passes were not able to be printed out for some reason. We got to the customer services desk, where we said the problem, and the agent looked at the screen and then tried to call someone to get help, but was waiting on hold. We were running out of time and I tried to get the other person on the desk to help, a lady who said she did not want to be involved because the other agent was helping us, but eventually suggested to him that he try another number, which he did, and on that number he was able to get through to someone. By then we had 6 minutes until check in would close. We pointed this out, which made them (both agents, the one supposedly helping us, and the one refusing to be involved) even more hostile to us. On the phone, the agent started explaining that i had "apparently" made these changes to the ticket, but the notes on his screen said I hadn't made these changes, and that basically he doubted I was telling the truth. At this point I got really angry, and tried to get the other agent to intervene, who refused. They were debating why the notes on the screen were at odds with the reservation details, and in the mean time we missed check in. At this point they called the manager down, who listened to my story, and said to me that he really believed that I was telling the truth (!!). I couldn't believe that they were actually make this all a question about me and whether I am telling the truth -- since all the conversations on the phone are all recorded, and anyway the reservation had been changed to Venice and to that date. In the end he said he would give us free tickets on a coach to Gatwick and put us on the flight to Venice from Gatwick. However, my bag was on the other plane already. They said I could go and retrieve it from security. I asked if I could have someone to help me do this, at least to accompany me, and he said no. And I asked for a private transfer (taxi) to Gatwick, which also was absolutely out of the question.

In the end, I got my bag back from Heathrow and went home. My son and his girlfriend took the flight from Gatwick. I ended up just pushing forward my flight to New York that I was supposed to take the 3rd of January and flying that night.

I spent all day on the phone with British Airways and after great efforts finally spoke to a supervisor who admitted that the mistake was British Airways, and that the agent had not properly processed the change of my son's and his girlfriend's tickets, and that the agent I spoke to the day before about the problems with printing out the boarding passes should have realised this. He agreed to refund me my flight. However a) they actually forced us to pay a £200 change fee for my son and his girlfriend's flight that day to Venice because the original change fee of £340 had not been processed. This was done without having offered them the option of just flying for the original price to Verona as originally planned -- which would have made more sense since our plans for New Year's Eve together were obviously ruined. Furthermore, a refund for a flight that I did not take, because their mistake and inability (actually unwillingness) to resolve the mistake made me miss my flight -- this is not compensation. I feel I should be compensated for the humiliating and unpleasant scene that I endured dealing with their incompetent, unhelpful and also, frankly, to a certain extent, malicious, staff at the customer service desk, who clearly made no effort to get us on the flight. Sending someone to Gatwick in a coat is not club class service, in my opinion. After all, I paid for a taxi to Heathrow at 7am -- why should I travel by coach to gatwick when is BA is paying, due to their errors and mishandling? Furthermore, it took time to retrieve my bag.

I want to know if there is compensation I can claim for being the victim not only of the ticketing errors, but of the arrogance and incompetence of the BA staff who I dealt with, who were both unable and unwilling to correct the errors that had been made, and who seem to think that bundling us on a coach to Gatwick with our luggage for free is some kind of compensation for what they put us through -- which is the compensation that was actually offered.

Dave Noble Jan 1, 16 1:07 pm

None of this is covered by EC261 at all

rbinlee Jan 1, 16 2:00 pm

I see, so that means that there is no compensation for such a case?

corporate-wage-slave Jan 1, 16 2:09 pm


Originally Posted by rbinlee (Post 25946227)
Thank you lorcancoyle and corporate-wage-slave for your replies. I have been looking at this forum from time to time, and trying to understand what I read here, particularly about tier runs, but I haven't joined until now.

Thank you for taking the time to add in these details. You come across as having had a bad experience and quite frustrated by it all.

Looking at this, it would appear that some or all of your tickets were not reissued after your first set of changes, at least that is what I think is the root cause. I am afraid that's not unusual, but it is easy to spot, so I'm surprised the agent you called after OLCI didn't mention it. It could have been something else I guess, but it's still not clear to me. You can often check this at OLCI via classic.checkmytrip.com.

In terms of how it was handled at the airport, it looks to me that things got a little out of hand. I wasn't there, so I better not take a too judgemental view on this.

More generally I would probably think it best to avoid phrases like incompetent and malicious (particularly if it's true, ironically) simply because the system will close down against you. Losing one's temper is also rarely helpful in my experience, though we've all been there at some point in our lives. Things like taxis and being accompanied down to Arrivals may seem very important at the time, but I doubt in a year's time they would matter much, whereas the memories of Venice would last forever. So personally I'd either pay up or take the National Express (which is perfectly acceptable, incidentally, and often quicker than a taxi). You can always write into Customer Relations afterwards if you still feel strongly about it.

What this boils down to is that unless we know for certain that the root cause of not being able to check-in, then it's not clear that this an EC261 issue - which defines this in terms of having a valid ticket and turning up in good time for any necessary check in and security procedures. This looks like a Customer Relations issue that got out of control, essentially, rather than EC261. So discretionary compensation rather than statutory. I doubt BA will spend too long worrying about this, which may be harsh, but in reality the damage has been done and there's not much at this stage that BA can or will want to do to fix it. Unless you can prove you had a properly issued ticket, checked in on time, and then were denied boarding due to some fault on BA's side, then you're going to struggle on the statutory EC261 compensation side.

I would therefore write the shortest letter of complaint you can, and have very low expectations of any positive outcome.

710 77345 Jan 1, 16 2:31 pm

I would go down the EU261 IDB route as it appeared ticketed to the passenger who was at the airport in proper time, and see what BA come back with.

rbinlee Jan 1, 16 2:49 pm

that's very helpful -- thank you so much

NickB Jan 1, 16 4:52 pm


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 25946466)
What this boils down to is that unless we know for certain that the root cause of not being able to check-in, then it's not clear that this an EC261 issue - which defines this in terms of having a valid ticket and turning up in good time for any necessary check in and security procedures. This looks like a Customer Relations issue that got out of control, essentially, rather than EC261. So discretionary compensation rather than statutory.

Just because something is not covered by Reg 261/2004 does not necessarily mean that there is no legal redress whatsoever and that the only compensation is based on goodwill. it sounds like there could be potential issues of breach of contract. It is however rather more complex (and all the more so following the acceptance of the solution proposed by BA and the OP's decision not to fly) and may require legal advice to sort out.

Clearly, CR is the first port our call in any event.

NickB Jan 1, 16 4:57 pm


Originally Posted by 710 77345 (Post 25946552)
I would go down the EU261 IDB route as it appeared ticketed to the passenger who was at the airport in proper time, and see what BA come back with.

Yes, that might be worth a try.
Strictly speaking, the Reg only requires the passenger to have a valid "reservation" and "reservation" is defined as "the fact that the passenger has a ticket, or other proof, which indicates that the reservation has been accepted and registered by the air carrier or tour operator". It seems to me that there is an arguable case that this is a situation where that "other proof" bit might conceivably come into play.

hollyflyer Jan 3, 16 2:25 pm

Eligible for Compensation?
 
Hi there,

It's my first time posting to this forum, but I have scanned through the forums from the last couple of years and it looks like a really great source of information.

My boyfriend and I were returning to Vancouver on the 1st of Jan after a round-trip to Ireland for Christmas, and our return journey was DUB-LHR-YVR, all booked through BA. The first leg of the journey was operated by Aer Lingus. When we got to the airport 2.5 hours before our flight, the rep at the Aer Lingus desk gave us our boarding passes from DUB-LHR only, and said we could get our second set of boarding passes once we talked to a BA rep in Heathrow. We hadn't travelled this particular connection back to Vancouver before, and to be honest thought nothing of it at the time.

We reached Heathrow approximately 45 mins later than scheduled, due to a technical delay in Dublin, however with still plenty of time to make our connecting flight to Vancouver. We went through security and went straight to the BA flight connections desk, where the rep told us there was no possibility of us getting on the flight (it was in approx. 40 mins at this stage) as we hadn't been checked on in Dublin and the flight was closed. I understand not being able to put us on the flight for that reason, however couldn't understand why the rep in Dublin hadn't checked us in. We were travelling with a friend who had been through-checked the whole way. When querying this, or asking was there another possible connection for us to be put on, the BA rep was really dismissive stating that it was Aer Lingus' problem because their flight was late, and that the girl in Dublin didn't do her job properly. She said she would phone the gate to see if there was any possibility of getting us on the flight, and once she hung up the phone she sat whispering to the colleague sitting next to her before giving us a firm no and reiterating that it was Aer Lingus' fault. She said the best she could do for us was to put us on the same flight tomorrow (5.25pm) and sent us off to the Aer Lingus ticket desk to be given our hotel for the night, telling us she had booked us onto that flight.

At this point I was really disappointed with Aer Lingus, but we arrived at the ticket desk anyway and were presented with our hotel vouchers. Keen for one last insight as to why we weren't checked in in Dublin, I asked the the Aer Lingus rep, who then checked the log and turned the computer screen around to show us that in fact the girl in Dublin had tried to through-check us, and the check-in had been denied due to BA overbooking the flight and the flight already being full. Aer Lingus still provided us with the hotel and food vouchers, even though the fault now appeared to be completely BA's.

In the end, our arrival in Vancouver was delayed by 24-hours. When we came back to speak to BA customer service the next day and check in for our alternative flight, it came to light that the original BA rep we had been dealing with in flight connections had not booked us on a new flight at all, and this had to be done there and then. The man we were dealing with agreed it had all been handled very badly, and offered us advice as to how to go about applying for compensation, however reading peoples' previous experiences here is making me worry that it won't be as straightforward as I originally thought!

Any advice would be really greatly appreciated, as you can probably tell, we aren't very regular flyers and I have never had this sort of issue before whilst travelling. Thanks a million!

corporate-wage-slave Jan 3, 16 2:59 pm


Originally Posted by hollyflyer (Post 25955259)
Hi there,

Welcome to Flyertalk hollyflyer, welcome to the BA Board. It's great to see you here, and what I would hope is that this incident hasn't put you off. As you rightly suggest, this forum is great for advising people what to do, and also how to avoid trouble in the first place. So I'll hope you'll stick around and next time your trip should be less stressful. And next time, check in online at the first opportunity!

I think the Aer Lingus story sounds very plausible. I would write down as much of it as you can remember now, giving as much specifics as you can, names, places etc. The reason being is that this one needs to be handled carefully, since there's a risk of BA disputing aspects of this story. Don't send BA this account just yet, you may need it later. At the end, write the time and date of your recollection and sign it.

I also think the original Aer Lingus agent should have been more open with you, since this would have allowed a more intelligent follow-up. Moreover I would want to know why she didn't book another flight for you just in case.

What complicates matters is the EI delay, since it is the case that you cannot be checked in later than 45 minutes before the flight, at that point all the standbys and other overbooked people get cleared, so we need to focus on the fact that you tried to check in on time, but were unable to do so

What I would do at this point is to simply claim for Involuntary Denied Boarding at 600€ each, as per post 1. Say you checked in on time in Dublin but due to overbooking you were not issued with the boarding pass for the onward flight from LHR and were held overnight. And that's it, pretty much, and see what comes back. Also claim for any food, drink, travel to hotels, communication costs which were not paid for in London by vouchers.

If they come back, saying you checked in too late, your strongest card is that you had a friend who went with you the whole way and was checked in throughout. But maybe we best look at that when they revert.

You should also separately complain to Customer Relations that you were not rebooked as promised. By all means mention the EC261 claim in the Customer Relations bit. I actually suspect that you were rebooked, but there was also an IT error somewhere separately, but still it's worthy of a complaint.

[Before anyone else notices, this presumably was at Terminal 3, where it is possible to get through security and not have a boarding pass. Can't be done at T5 but almost certainly there would have been time to clear there, even with dear old conformance in place!]

hollyflyer Jan 3, 16 5:03 pm

Thank you so much for your reply corporate-wage-slave! Really, really appreciate it!

Yes, it was Terminal 3, sorry for not mentioning! I will do as you say and submit the claim without going into all the details, hopefully there won't be any problems. We have everything written down, along with everyone's name that we spoke to and the time we spoke to them at, Aer Lingus agreed to give us proof of the denied check-in if BA require it so fingers crossed it all goes ok.

Will update on here as soon as I hear something from them! Thanks again :)

ginger50 Jan 3, 16 10:08 pm

Are Sri Lankan stacking themselves up for a claim?
 
Later this month Mrs G50 and I are flying to MLE for our hols.

From what I have read here a Sri Lankan flight departing from LHR is fully covered under EC261. Furthermore any connections departing from CMB on the same PNR are also covered.

Bearing this in mind I am surprised at the response from Sri Lankan to my email below. Am I missing something here or are Sri Lankan stacking themselves up for a € 1,200 delay claim (2 pax traveling on same PNR)?

I ask this because from what I can see from flight stats 56% of UL504 flights are delayed with an average delay of 32 minutes. So it is highly likely that we will not connect to our MLE flight, and the next flight (UL103) would get us to MLE 5 hrs and 20 minutes later than our original booked flight.

Incidentally, Expert flyer is showing plenty of availability on UL 103, can I trust this because it would be a real disaster if that was full and we had to stay over in CMB?

Sorry for the detail but I want to be well armed/informed for what I believe is a foreseeable c**k up. Am I best to sit tight and see what happens or go back to Sri Lankan and insist on being booked on the later flight? BTW, the original itinerary was their proposal, not mine!

Thanks for any feedback that may help.

G50

My email to Sri Lankan Reservations (edited to remove names etc)


Hello,

Earlier this year I made a booking (XXXXXX) as follows.
LHR - CMB UL0504

Depart 21Jan 20:30 Arrive 22 Jan 12:45

CMB - MLE UL0115

Depart 22Jan 13:45 Arrive 22 Jan 14:40

Since then Srilankan have made schedule changes so that there is now only a 50 minute transfer time at Colombo. I note that the inbound flight UL504 had an average delayed arrival in Colombo of 19 minutes over the past 8 days with a maximum delay of 47 minutes.

What is the minimum connection time in CMB? and do you hold the departure of connecting flights in order to enable passengers to make their connections?... or….
Would you advise us to move to a later flight to MLE?

With best regards
They replied:


Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for contacting SriLankan Airlines.

Your booking reference - XXXXXX

Please note that the Minimum Connecting Time in Colombo is 45 minutes.

The Airline will rebook you for the next flight without any additional costs, if you miss the onwards flight due to delay in UL 504.

If you require further clarification, please contact our Call Center on the numbers below.

lorcancoyle Jan 3, 16 10:43 pm


Originally Posted by ginger50 (Post 25957032)
Later this month Mrs G50 and I are flying to MLE for our hols.

From what I have read here a Sri Lankan flight departing from LHR is fully covered under EC261. Furthermore any connections departing from CMB on the same PNR are also covered.

Bearing this in mind I am surprised at the response from Sri Lankan to my email below. Am I missing something here or are Sri Lankan stacking themselves up for a € 1,200 delay claim (2 pax traveling on same PNR)?

I ask this because from what I can see from flight stats 56% of UL504 flights are delayed with an average delay of 32 minutes. So it is highly likely that we will not connect to our MLE flight, and the next flight (UL103) would get us to MLE 5 hrs and 20 minutes later than our original booked flight.

Incidentally, Expert flyer is showing plenty of availability on UL 103, can I trust this because it would be a real disaster if that was full and we had to stay over in CMB?

Sorry for the detail but I want to be well armed/informed for what I believe is a foreseeable c**k up. Am I best to sit tight and see what happens or go back to Sri Lankan and insist on being booked on the later flight? BTW, the original itinerary was their proposal, not mine!

Thanks for any feedback that may help.

G50

See post 6, Q3 - wouldn't be covered

vbroucek Jan 3, 16 10:56 pm


Originally Posted by lorcancoyle (Post 25957151)
See post 6, Q3 - wouldn't be covered

I think you need to be more careful reading posts before responding, IMHO, incorrectly. :td:

Post 6, Q3 talks about delay of connecting flight. However, OP talks about missing UL0115 (CMB-MLE) because of delay on UL0504 (LHR-CMB) and need to take later CMB-MLE flight. IMHO this would be covered because the delay to the whole of the trip was caused by delay of first flight LHR-CMB!

ginger50 Jan 4, 16 1:32 am


Originally Posted by vbroucek (Post 25957175)
....IMHO this would be covered because the delay to the whole of the trip was caused by delay of first flight LHR-CMB!

Thank you vbroucek yes, that was my understanding of the rules also.... one PNR all on the same carrier ex LHR.

caz312 Jan 4, 16 1:49 am


Originally Posted by vbroucek (Post 25957175)
IMHO this would be covered because the delay to the whole of the trip was caused by delay of first flight LHR-CMB!

however this will come down to the reason for the delay
a short delay due ATC resulting in missed connection would not result in any compensation payment

vbroucek Jan 4, 16 1:50 am


Originally Posted by ginger50 (Post 25957479)
Thank you vbroucek yes, that was my understanding of the rules also.... one PNR all on the same carrier ex LHR.

I found flightstats not too reliable lately and I tend to use flightradar24 nowadays. Have a look at http://www.flightradar24.com/flight/ul504 and you will find that the flight was really late only once in the last 7 days... This link http://www.flightradar24.com/flight/ul115 will show you that UL115 was leaving late most of the days... Perhaps waiting for connecting passengers?

Now, if bad thing happens, don't let it spoil your holidays at MLE... Enjoy your stay no matter what and start looking at possible compensation upon your return to LHR. After that submit request for the comp. If denied, think twice if it is worth your effort and time to fight for it. If yes, follow the advice in this thread.

vbroucek Jan 4, 16 1:53 am


Originally Posted by caz312 (Post 25957515)
however this will come down to the reason for the delay
a short delay due ATC resulting in missed connection would not result in any compensation payment

And zillions of other reasons... Of course... The main point was that while lorcancoyle provided some valuable input in the past, it was plain BS this time...

corporate-wage-slave Jan 4, 16 1:54 am


Originally Posted by ginger50 (Post 25957032)
Later this month Mrs G50 and I are flying to MLE for our hols.

Personally I wouldn't worry: your flights are in general terms protected by EC261, and despite Sri Lankan's punctuality issues I suspect you will make the connection - they will meet you in CMB and assist you to make the flight; moreover for that particular connection there will be a lot of other passengers on the same connection, so Sri Lankan typically delays the onward flight if necessary.

vbroucek Jan 4, 16 2:03 am


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 25957532)
Personally I wouldn't worry: your flights are in general terms protected by EC261, and despite Sri Lankan's punctuality issues I suspect you will make the connection - they will meet you in CMB and assist you to make the flight; moreover for that particular connection there will be a lot of other passengers on the same connection, so Sri Lankan typically delays the onward flight if necessary.

Academically speaking, I would not rely on that. As demonstrated by the data I provided above, flight from LHR arrived at 13:49 local time today and flight to MEL left at 13:42. So they did not wait today...

ginger50 Jan 4, 16 2:14 am

Thank you everyone, and vbroucek, I will most certainly NOT waste valuable diving time filling out EC261! These responses have given me confidence in the conversations possible at the airport.

Holiday first; compo second!

vbroucek Jan 4, 16 2:19 am


Originally Posted by ginger50 (Post 25957579)
Thank you everyone, and vbroucek, I will most certainly NOT waste valuable diving time filling out EC261! These responses have given me confidence in the conversations possible at the airport.

Holiday first; compo second!

That's the way to do it! BTW, you're flying out on my BD - you will be lucky!!!

Shuttle_Endeavour Jan 4, 16 4:08 pm

Please can someone help clarify a situation for me. My friend is on tonight's BA0124 (DOH LHR - via BAH). The flight looks like it will be cancelled. Does EC261 apply in this case? Or does the BAH stop allow BA a get out by claiming it is a non EU flight?

corporate-wage-slave Jan 4, 16 4:12 pm


Originally Posted by Shuttle_Endeavour (Post 25961733)
Please can someone help clarify a situation for me. My friend is on tonight's BA0124 (DOH LHR - via BAH). The flight looks like it will be cancelled. Does EC261 apply in this case? Or does the BAH stop allow BA a get out by claiming it is a non EU flight?

No get out clause for that since BA is a community carrier and assuming your friend isn't travelling to BAH only. There may be a get out clause depending on the reason for the cancellation. Nevertheless the duty of care would apply in all circumstances.

Shuttle_Endeavour Jan 4, 16 4:16 pm

Thank you CWS, that was my belief, but I wanted clarification. It sounds like BA may have done a good job of washing its hands of its responsibilities and leaving people to sort themselves out.
Will update if I hear more.

Special 1 Jan 5, 16 3:36 am

Can someone please advise me on my delayed flight with BA.

The flight from IST to LHR on 31/12 was initially delayed and subsequently cancelled and re-scheduled for the next day. The delay was due to adverse weather , however ultimately it was due to crew staff exceeding flight time hours. No spare crew , so flight cancelled on the day. As this is the first occasion this occurred to me , I was unaware of my entitlements.
BA did provide transfer, accommodation and meal. However it was chaotic at best with no BA rep on site but Turkish airport staff.

I was stranded at airport for 11 hours in total. Problems arose as we had boarded flight about to take off , but due to congestion, with minutes to spare, the flight was due for de-icing which would have exceeded crew staff time on return, making it illegal to return.

The return flight due to depart at 1100 , finally departed at 1330 on 01/01/16.

I had a hotel reservation for 31/12/15, which I lost as it was prepaid due to delay. I will be complaining to BA at the shambolic handling at the airport.

My flight along with partner was booked using cash and Avios directly with BA.
I do have travel insurance , and have been advised that they will only pay for delay to flight £30 per 8 hours , but not for lost hotel costs.

lorcancoyle Jan 5, 16 3:51 am


Originally Posted by Special 1 (Post 25964081)
Can someone please advise me on my delayed flight with BA.

The flight from IST to LHR on 31/12 was initially delayed and subsequently cancelled and re-scheduled for the next day. The delay was due to adverse weather , however ultimately it was due to crew staff exceeding flight time hours. No spare crew , so flight cancelled on the day. As this is the first occasion this occurred to me , I was unaware of my entitlements.
BA did provide transfer, accommodation and meal. However it was chaotic at best with no BA rep on site but Turkish airport staff.

I was stranded at airport for 11 hours in total. Problems arose as we had boarded flight about to take off , but due to congestion, with minutes to spare, the flight was due for de-icing which would have exceeded crew staff time on return, making it illegal to return.

The return flight due to depart at 1100 , finally departed at 1330 on 01/01/16.

I had a hotel reservation for 31/12/15, which I lost as it was prepaid due to delay. I will be complaining to BA at the shambolic handling at the airport.

My flight along with partner was booked using cash and Avios directly with BA.
I do have travel insurance , and have been advised that they will only pay for delay to flight £30 per 8 hours , but not for lost hotel costs.

I gather IST in general was a shambles around that time - take a look at @starflyergold's Twitter feed on the subject for a horrendous experience at the hands of TK (they make BA look positively professional at IRROPS it seems).

IMO there's no compensation due as it was adverse weather, the crew timing out was solely a result of that rather than anything else I presume. Happy to be corrected though. Also sounds like BA, eventually, did what they had to in terms of care


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