FlyerTalk Forums

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   British Airways | Executive Club (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club-446/)
-   -   The 2016 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1735482-2016-ba-compensation-thread-your-guide-regulation-261-2004-a.html)

lorcancoyle Jan 10, 16 11:30 pm


Originally Posted by misaggie (Post 25997568)
First, thanks to all for the wealth of info on this post. I need some advice for my situation: I was due to fly on AUS-LHR-DEL on 1/12/16 but just received an email that BA cancelled both of these flights(very odd, no bad weather, no obvious reason mentioned). They have rebooked me on the same AUS-LHR-DEL flight now departing on 1/13/16.

What should my best course of action be? Should I contact the customer service after I complete this new itinerary which now has a 24 hour delay. I am also missing a domestic flight within India that I booked (not booked through BA).

Can experts here advise?

You can call BA to demand rerouting to avoid such an excessive delay - internal AA flight and then BA/AA transatlantic (likely to get pushback), otherwise nothing to stop you putting in claim once you land in LHR (could even do so now)

corporate-wage-slave Jan 11, 16 1:58 am


Originally Posted by misaggie (Post 25997568)
What should my best course of action be? Should I contact the customer service after I complete this new itinerary which now has a 24 hour delay. I am also missing a domestic flight within India that I booked (not booked through BA).

Can experts here advise?

The missing Domestic flight is interesting. Under the Montréal Convention BA may also be liable for this, as well as the EC261 aspects. That Convention also has something similar to the "extraordinary cricumstances" clause, indeed that is where it came from originally, but if the cancellation is due to a shortage of aircraft or crew then I think you may be on to something. The flight today out from London is cancelled and since that is 3 hours off that makes me suspect BA's wriggle room will be very tight.

Moreover, as you may have noticed from the above, this relates to the services on the 11 January. If I've understood your post correctly, on the day of your booked travel, BA are actually going to run a flight from Austin to London. If you are being bumped on the 12th January, it presumably is due to the fact that they can't squeeze everyone from today's service to tomorrows.

Now a lot depends on what you would prefer. If you want to get to your destination on the advertised date, then you need to get BA to re-route you, and perhaps bump someone else off your flight. However if they reroute you via DFW or somewhere it may be a more tiring journey to say the least. If you are happy to go the next day but want both EC261 compensation and the domestic service refunded then you need to give BA some opportunity to fix the situation. If the EC261 is fine, and you're happy with that, then you don't have to do much other than claim after the flight.

So depending on the previous paragraph you will need to call BA. If they can't do much for you, ensure that they add into the notes of the PNR about the domestic flight and your preferences.

The EC261 seems a done deal here. I can't see anyway BA could argue out of it.

misaggie Jan 11, 16 8:08 am

thank you!
 

Originally Posted by lorcancoyle (Post 25997586)
You can call BA to demand rerouting to avoid such an excessive delay - internal AA flight and then BA/AA transatlantic (likely to get pushback), otherwise nothing to stop you putting in claim once you land in LHR (could even do so now)


misaggie Jan 11, 16 8:19 am

Thank You!
 
First, thank you so much for your response. You are spot on! I would rather take the same one stop itinerary one day later than be routed through the inconvenience of a two+ stop itinerary. That's why I am okay with the 24 hour delayed ticket they issued for me.

Can you please elaborate more on your comment here? How do I best communicate with BA if I want EC261 compensation and domestic service refunded(btw I am about to rebook my domestic for a day later now)

"If you are happy to go the next day but want both EC261 compensation and the domestic service refunded then you need to give BA some opportunity to fix the situation"

Also, one last question. Do I need to worry if my itinerary was booked through expedia and it has an american airlines record locator as well. I managed the booking through BA's website with their locator. Both my flights are operated by BA and BA cancelled the AUS LHR leg (for everyone it seems, not just me due to overbooking, no reason mentioned)



Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 25997948)
The missing Domestic flight is interesting. Under the Montréal Convention BA may also be liable for this, as well as the EC261 aspects. That Convention also has something similar to the "extraordinary cricumstances" clause, indeed that is where it came from originally, but if the cancellation is due to a shortage of aircraft or crew then I think you may be on to something. The flight today out from London is cancelled and since that is 3 hours off that makes me suspect BA's wriggle room will be very tight.

Moreover, as you may have noticed from the above, this relates to the services on the 11 January. If I've understood your post correctly, on the day of your booked travel, BA are actually going to run a flight from Austin to London. If you are being bumped on the 12th January, it presumably is due to the fact that they can't squeeze everyone from today's service to tomorrows.

Now a lot depends on what you would prefer. If you want to get to your destination on the advertised date, then you need to get BA to re-route you, and perhaps bump someone else off your flight. However if they reroute you via DFW or somewhere it may be a more tiring journey to say the least. If you are happy to go the next day but want both EC261 compensation and the domestic service refunded then you need to give BA some opportunity to fix the situation. If the EC261 is fine, and you're happy with that, then you don't have to do much other than claim after the flight.

So depending on the previous paragraph you will need to call BA. If they can't do much for you, ensure that they add into the notes of the PNR about the domestic flight and your preferences.

The EC261 seems a done deal here. I can't see anyway BA could argue out of it.


aidy Jan 11, 16 9:37 am

Its strange, i put in my and my OH's at the same time, she has no status and im a lowly Bronze.

She had a reply the next morning confirming the payment (6th Jan), i still haven't heard anything yet.

The only difference was my bags were delayed on both legs (hers on the IB), however on the OB my bag was late and i got toiletries to cover myself, which i put on the claim too.

Is this the delay or should I chase this?

sos9394 Jan 12, 16 9:36 am

So here's my case.
I missed my connecting flight from LHR to HKG due to 1 hr delay of late arrival aircraft at MAD. At MAD airport, BA staff still print me the boarding pass and put me on the delayed flight to try to catch the connecting flight to HKG, instead of route me via other airport back to HKG.
I can't make it at the end of course given that I only have 10 mins running from one gate to another.

So they put me on next day flight which is 14 hrs after original scheduled. I made a request to BA Customer Relation right after the trip and got denied - Reason is ATC. On the other hand, I also sent in another request for delay proof which clearly states that the delay is due to "operational" instead of "air traffic control". Now, BA insist this is due to ATC which is out of their control and decline to make any compensation under EU 261/2004.

So my question is, I have this valid proof of delay issued by BA stating its operational delay - which implying someone is lying about the delay reason. How much chance I can win this claim if I take it to legal action?

corporate-wage-slave Jan 12, 16 10:01 am


Originally Posted by sos9394 (Post 26005764)
So here's my case.

If the delay was quite short, and the connection was short, then an ATC delay is quite possible at both LHR, and the MAD end too. So this may be tricky to resolve - it probably won't be difficult for BA to prove that there were ATC delays. EC261 cannot solve all the problems of air travel, and certainly not two of the world's more congested airports.

However the burden of proof, under the regulations, is on the airline. So you are within your rights to email BA and ask them for this proof since otherwise you are minded to send the case to MCOL or perhaps the small claims procedure where you may live. So to answer your question, if you are firmly of the view that it was operational and not ATC (and ideally have some evidence to back this up) then it will be down to the judge.

One point I will highlight: it sounds like the LHR-MAD flight was the original delay culprit, so it is worth finding out whether the ATC delay was to an earlier flight, or whether it was on the LHR-MAD-LHR sectors. If it was earlier in the day then BA are on weaker grounds.

corporate-wage-slave Jan 12, 16 10:02 am


Originally Posted by aidy (Post 25999623)
Is this the delay or should I chase this?

Leave it a few more weeks, if I were you. After a month then by all means complain using the incident number and calling Customer Relations.

thepinkponce Jan 14, 16 8:49 am

I posted this in the 2015 thread early December. I just thought it may be beneficial to feed back that BA have today confirmed bank transfers for the €250 and the £70 taxi fare after requesting a copy of the receipt over Christmas.


3 hour 25 minute delay on this mornings BA1321 NCL to LHR due to damage to the aircraft.

I had a 13:30 meeting I had to attend. We landed at 12:40 and I had to head straight for a taxi into London to make the meeting (which I did, just)

Will BA reimburse my £70 taxi fare as well as my EC261/2004 claim? ? I would normally use the tube.

Whizkid Jan 17, 16 1:51 pm

2 day delay to arrive (US)
 
The Flight is booked as DEL-LHR-AUS, due to weather, the flight was delayed by 30 Hr in DEL, When arrived in LHR a day late, the connecting flight rebooked has also left and stayed overnight in LHR and finally arrived in AUS 2 days later than originally planned.

Should I make claim in EU261?

Since the original delay was due to Weather at a Non EU airport, is it still covered.

the delay in LHR is due to delayed arrival (even the revised one) and missing the connecting - would that strengthen the claim?

lorcancoyle Jan 17, 16 2:34 pm


Originally Posted by Whizkid (Post 26033444)
The Flight is booked as DEL-LHR-AUS, due to weather, the flight was delayed by 30 Hr in DEL, When arrived in LHR a day late, the connecting flight rebooked has also left and stayed overnight in LHR and finally arrived in AUS 2 days later than originally planned.

Should I make claim in EU261?

Since the original delay was due to Weather at a Non EU airport, is it still covered.

the delay in LHR is due to delayed arrival (even the revised one) and missing the connecting - would that strengthen the claim?

Not much downside to putting a claim in, but likely to get knocked back. Would make sure to structure the claim to capture the rescheduling delay and then the arrival delay after that - so you can maximise information they should provide. I'd also check delays for other EU airlines around the same time as point of comparison, e.g. if AF and LH faced same issues with much shorter delays, as would lay groundwork for subsequent escalation

I presume this was the fog at DEL recently? 30 hours is still a massive delay - was it a diverted / cancelled inbound and then crew hours or something?

Whizkid Jan 17, 16 6:59 pm


Originally Posted by lorcancoyle (Post 26033645)
Not much downside to putting a claim in, but likely to get knocked back. Would make sure to structure the claim to capture the rescheduling delay and then the arrival delay after that - so you can maximise information they should provide. I'd also check delays for other EU airlines around the same time as point of comparison, e.g. if AF and LH faced same issues with much shorter delays, as would lay groundwork for subsequent escalation

I presume this was the fog at DEL recently? 30 hours is still a massive delay - was it a diverted / cancelled inbound and then crew hours or something?

My flight in DEL sat on ground for 8 hrs and crew timed out. They pushed the flight to next day - but still departed by 3+ hours late than the revised time.

sos9394 Jan 18, 16 8:56 am


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 26005895)
If the delay was quite short, and the connection was short, then an ATC delay is quite possible at both LHR, and the MAD end too. So this may be tricky to resolve - it probably won't be difficult for BA to prove that there were ATC delays. EC261 cannot solve all the problems of air travel, and certainly not two of the world's more congested airports.

However the burden of proof, under the regulations, is on the airline. So you are within your rights to email BA and ask them for this proof since otherwise you are minded to send the case to MCOL or perhaps the small claims procedure where you may live. So to answer your question, if you are firmly of the view that it was operational and not ATC (and ideally have some evidence to back this up) then it will be down to the judge.

One point I will highlight: it sounds like the LHR-MAD flight was the original delay culprit, so it is worth finding out whether the ATC delay was to an earlier flight, or whether it was on the LHR-MAD-LHR sectors. If it was earlier in the day then BA are on weaker grounds.

Thanks CWS !

To further clarify my case is that, I am sure the chance of proving it's non-ATC delay is very slim. However, I have this "delay proof" issued by BA after I took the flight which specifically put the delay reason is "operational". And the proof explicitly states that it would state the delay reason as "ATC" for any delay due to air traffic control. So I am sure the CS rep is lying. I dont think the team processing the delay proof would be wrong in this case.

So I am asking, how much chance do I have if i bring this to MCOL or somthing? Thanks!

corporate-wage-slave Jan 18, 16 9:39 am


Originally Posted by sos9394 (Post 26037197)
So I am asking, how much chance do I have if i bring this to MCOL or somthing? Thanks!

I think it almost impossible that the CS person was lying in any direct sense of the word. Why? Because if it came out in court that BA was telling lies to avoid its legal obligations, the ramification for the company would be far reaching to say the least. A lie would be pointless, it would simply end the career of the staff member concerned, since it is in breach of the staff members' code of conduct. Other explanations do exist and are more plausible.

As for MCOL, well that is where both sides present their evidence and the judge will decide on the balance of probabilities. The die are loaded in your favour in two aspects, the burden of proof falls to BA more than you. Secondly the Regulations underlying purpose is to help passengers, not airlines. So you could give it a shot, if BA allow it to get to court then you'll know they have evidence to back up their claims. Your risk stake is limited to the court fee, unless you are reckless in your legal approach.

aidy Jan 18, 16 9:50 am


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 26005900)
Leave it a few more weeks, if I were you. After a month then by all means complain using the incident number and calling Customer Relations.

came through on friday night, so all good


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 7:24 pm.


This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.