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Long haul pricing ex BHD is just stupid. Rant

Long haul pricing ex BHD is just stupid. Rant

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Old Nov 17, 15, 6:48 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by David-A View Post
Not wrong. But noted as a point. The fact remains fewer avios are required, although in terms of practical value you are of course correct. However that is a taxation matter - unless the OP is also asking why taxes are different!...
Well you said swings and roundabouts implying that was a benefit. When clearly it isn't a benefit unless you value Avios at around 3p each. It's more like 'swings and swings'
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Old Nov 17, 15, 7:39 pm
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by benjyyy View Post
Well you said swings and roundabouts implying that was a benefit. When clearly it isn't a benefit unless you value Avios at around 3p each. It's more like 'swings and swings'
Being pedantic, I'd insist it is still swings and roundabouts ... - although with the swings much better than the roundabouts!

My general point was: Things differ.
You are correct on value though - although, if you were very Avios poor, I think 3p is still the starting price to buy them (if you just wanted 1k?).

In general I still strongly argue that being able to choose between Belfast and Dublin so relatively easily means you are sitting in a comparative sweet spot compared to many others.

Last edited by David-A; Nov 18, 15 at 2:04 pm
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Old Nov 17, 15, 8:32 pm
  #18  
 
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I'll tale a drive up the m1 than yet another is it isnt it cancelled dodgy crosswind landing from glasgow for a dub itinerary!
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Old Nov 17, 15, 8:55 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by caz312 View Post
Is this not simply the case of competition?
BHD-PVG...options....via LHR.
DUB-PVG...options....via LHR, via AMS, via CDG, via HEL, via CPH, via FRA, via AUH, via IST, via DXB
need to be competitive from DUB as there is so many alternative options...not so much from BHD!
KLM fly to BHD as well. Curiously BHD-AMS-PVG in J is around 2,000 on KLM. BA's pricing looks very uncompetitive in comparison. Although it looks like the KLM timing necessitates an overnight connection in AMS most days, so maybe that is why.
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Old Nov 17, 15, 8:59 pm
  #20  
 
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BA just took over and carried on the bmi pricing regime!

My then regular monthly jaunt used to be BHD-LHR-LCA return. The bmi leg to/from BHD was almost the same cost as the CE LHR-LCA legs - somewhere about 400 each IIRC.

The availability of EY/EK from DUB to NBO has been very welcome, even using the bus at times!
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Old Nov 18, 15, 12:11 am
  #21  
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Not only pax from BHD that gets stiffed.

A. Recent flights booked on CX ex AMS to SUB. Cost 1380 (+ 280 (100 Avios discount) positioning flights)
B. Check of flights from GLA-SUB via LHR & HKG 3880
C. Check of flights from AMS-SUB via LHR & HKG 1501 (positioning flights not factored in but say same as A.)

It beggars belief sometimes. I cannot understand how there can be a difference of over 2000 even with UK APD but as I've said before, revenue management to me is a dark art.

To me (and my simple mind ) BA should be encouraging ex UK Regional pax as much as they do with ex EU pax. With LHR having so many choices of carriers to choose from, even if the domestic flights are on BA, how many pax are connecting on to another L/H carrier?

Dark arts, it hurts my head

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Old Nov 18, 15, 1:37 am
  #22  
 
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It is the holy grail of any business to be able to segment the market and get each segment to pay the maximium marginal cost.

Customers at AMS may have the option of flying direct with KLM or indirect with BA. So for a airline BA, to pick up customers from AMS they need to offer them an incentive to take the longer journey.

From Belfast your choice may only be to fly through a connection, so there is no point in offering a lower price.

Market forces I am afraid.
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Old Nov 18, 15, 1:38 am
  #23  
 
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If you're talking about regional pax being stuffed compared with LHR ones, shouldn't you be comparing ex-GLA with ex-LHR rather than ex-EU?
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Old Nov 18, 15, 1:46 am
  #24  
 
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Even I was surprised recently at the difference between an ex LHR business trip I have to make to the States. To go direct from LHR in F BA want 11,381 whereas to go ex-EU it cost me 5,400. Staggering difference.
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Old Nov 18, 15, 2:35 am
  #25  
 
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Also, part of it will be that DUB probably has far more people conciously reviewing the fares, Belfast will be using combination algorithms for UK fares (London + X for domestic connection).
I think the algorithm is more like (London + 3X for domestic connection. Quite often the BHD fare is significantly higher than the LHR fare, much more than just the domestic add-on.

Originally Posted by antichef View Post
BA just took over and carried on the bmi pricing regime!
One thing I haven't been able to replicate from the bmi days is booking *A out of DUB but returning to BHD to get a big drop in fare, more than just the tax and probably a YQ quirk.

The thing is it BHD pricing seems to be working for BA. Increased rotations, full flights, and I seem to see and hear of more and more connecting passengers. At the last IRROPs there were lots of passengers with connections to long haul flights leading to complex rebookings.

FWIW FlyBE seem to be creaming off a lot of the point-to-point business traffic with their LCY flight. Easyjet are charging through the nose from BFS and adding more flights. With the loss of EI's BHD-LGW route expect fares to go one way... up!
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Old Nov 18, 15, 3:55 am
  #26  
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The domestic add on at BHD on a longhaul fare is zero (plus some differences in airport fees). This is in common with other longhaul fares filed from the regions.

e.g.,

BHD-PVG BA OLRCUK9

Code:
INTERNATIONAL CONSTRUCTION
 
** ADDONS FOR INFORMATION ONLY **
FARE--RT
                            PUBLISHED AMOUNT   CONVERTED AMOUNT
ADDON      CITIES  F/B      CUR                VIA NUC
ADDON ORG  BFS-LON Z*****   GBP         0.00   GBP        0.00 
           ATP ZONE 100     ADD-ON TARIFF AARBEAS/926          
PUBLISHED  LON-PVG OLRCUK9  GBP       246.00   GBP      246.00 
 
GBP CONVERTED TO USD USING BSR 1 USD - 0.657462 GBP
If you are connecting to short haul, it's a different story. Here's BHD-MAD

Code:
INTERNATIONAL CONSTRUCTION
 
** ADDONS FOR INFORMATION ONLY **
FARE--RT
                            PUBLISHED AMOUNT   CONVERTED AMOUNT
ADDON      CITIES  F/B      CUR                VIA NUC
ADDON ORG  BFS-LON OLAPV1S  GBP        60.00   GBP       60.00 
           ATP ZONE 200     ADD-ON TARIFF AARBS/986            
PUBLISHED  LON-MAD OLAPV1S  GBP        38.00   GBP       38.00 
 
GBP CONVERTED TO USD USING BSR 1 USD - 0.657462 GBP
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Old Nov 18, 15, 4:57 am
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by Calchas View Post
The domestic add on at BHD on a longhaul fare is zero (plus some differences in airport fees). This is in common with other longhaul fares filed from the regions.

e.g.,

BHD-PVG BA OLRCUK9

Code:
INTERNATIONAL CONSTRUCTION
 
** ADDONS FOR INFORMATION ONLY **
FARE--RT
                            PUBLISHED AMOUNT   CONVERTED AMOUNT
ADDON      CITIES  F/B      CUR                VIA NUC
ADDON ORG  BFS-LON Z*****   GBP         0.00   GBP        0.00 
           ATP ZONE 100     ADD-ON TARIFF AARBEAS/926          
PUBLISHED  LON-PVG OLRCUK9  GBP       246.00   GBP      246.00 
 
GBP CONVERTED TO USD USING BSR 1 USD - 0.657462 GBP
If you are connecting to short haul, it's a different story. Here's BHD-MAD

Code:
INTERNATIONAL CONSTRUCTION
 
** ADDONS FOR INFORMATION ONLY **
FARE--RT
                            PUBLISHED AMOUNT   CONVERTED AMOUNT
ADDON      CITIES  F/B      CUR                VIA NUC
ADDON ORG  BFS-LON OLAPV1S  GBP        60.00   GBP       60.00 
           ATP ZONE 200     ADD-ON TARIFF AARBS/986            
PUBLISHED  LON-MAD OLAPV1S  GBP        38.00   GBP       38.00 
 
GBP CONVERTED TO USD USING BSR 1 USD - 0.657462 GBP
That's interesting, thanks. Sometimes it doesn't feel that way, and the difference can be substantially more than the LHR passenger charge.
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Old Nov 18, 15, 5:08 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by bd95 View Post
That's interesting, thanks. Sometimes it doesn't feel that way, and the difference can be substantially more than the LHR passenger charge.
But are you comparing the same ticket ex-LHR immediately?

I have bought a few LBA and MAN-originating longhaul tickets myself. In my experience if the price is high ex-LBA it's high ex-LHR or ex-MAN.

In principle BA can play around with married segments to make certain fares unavailable form the regions but I haven't noticed it.
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Old Nov 18, 15, 5:15 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by David-A View Post
Price is driven by market forces.
In theory.

In practice I bet is nobody sitting on an ex-BHD departure that has a 5000 ticket to PVG. I wonder if they've ever sold one? I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they've not - i'd imagine travelling via Dublin is sufficiently trivial for all passengers that nobody avails themselves of the 5000 ticket, after all a 2 hour drive before a longhaul itinerary isn't outrageous and raises far less eyebrows than flying from LHR to AMS to then fly back to LHR.
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Old Nov 18, 15, 6:01 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by Calchas View Post
The domestic add on at BHD on a longhaul fare is zero (plus some differences in airport fees). This is in common with other longhaul fares filed from the regions.

e.g.,

BHD-PVG BA OLRCUK9

Code:
INTERNATIONAL CONSTRUCTION
 
** ADDONS FOR INFORMATION ONLY **
FARE--RT
                            PUBLISHED AMOUNT   CONVERTED AMOUNT
ADDON      CITIES  F/B      CUR                VIA NUC
ADDON ORG  BFS-LON Z*****   GBP         0.00   GBP        0.00 
           ATP ZONE 100     ADD-ON TARIFF AARBEAS/926          
PUBLISHED  LON-PVG OLRCUK9  GBP       246.00   GBP      246.00 
 
GBP CONVERTED TO USD USING BSR 1 USD - 0.657462 GBP
If you are connecting to short haul, it's a different story. Here's BHD-MAD

Code:
INTERNATIONAL CONSTRUCTION
 
** ADDONS FOR INFORMATION ONLY **
FARE--RT
                            PUBLISHED AMOUNT   CONVERTED AMOUNT
ADDON      CITIES  F/B      CUR                VIA NUC
ADDON ORG  BFS-LON OLAPV1S  GBP        60.00   GBP       60.00 
           ATP ZONE 200     ADD-ON TARIFF AARBS/986            
PUBLISHED  LON-MAD OLAPV1S  GBP        38.00   GBP       38.00 
 
GBP CONVERTED TO USD USING BSR 1 USD - 0.657462 GBP
And indeed this is common practice on many airlines throughout Europe too. For example a long-haul ticket ex-BIO or SVQ will typically cost the same as one ex-MAD or BCN, even though there is less competition from the former.

Similarly, ex-BGO/SVG typically costs the same as ex-OSL, for which many of us are grateful.
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