FlyingB1975

OP has a point here, sometimes BA revenue management misses the target. If you have a pax who wants to pay for an upgrade (either cash or avios) and you don't take it only to then give an opup to someone else - that doesn't make a lot of sense.

sts603

This was mainly done to reduce work on airport agents, not protect revenue. All international mileage upgrade has to be cleared by T-24. And there was for many years an easy work around - book a J award when there was only Y space and take a seat assignment for Y. Then you could be treated as displaced J passenger and entitled to any J seats at the gate. If not, you got your miles back (the J to Y differential).

dcmike

While I understand not wanting to go the U.S. model of offering upgrades to elites on available seats (although, to be fair, U.S. airlines only do this on domestic flights, and usually require some upgrade mechanism for international ones), I don't really understand not releasing more inventory for UUA if there are empty seats available. Don't Avios (and all unredeemed FF miles for airlines) count as a liability for the airline? Seems like an easy way to get miles off the books while still earning revenue.

HilFly

As opposed to the BA model of overselling WT with cheap tickets and op upping them into CW and F?

My last two CW trips have felt very unpremium due to the behavior of some of the op upees.

I don't get why op upping is ever better for BA than offering Avios upgrades.

BerksFlyer

If BA give an OPUP to someone who has never flown in a premium cabin it might tempt them to pay for it in the future. You could argue that this is a long term revenue strategy rather than a short term 'fill every seat and each pound we can get today is brilliant' strategy.

BA make a handsome profit so what makes you think their strategy does not make sense! It might not please everyone, but that's a different matter!

Dave Noble

You may believe that , I definitely would not agree

Looking at threads on US carriers , there is an expectation of upgrades and whines how someone less worthy may have been upgraded --- even complaints about lower 1st class fares such that , shock - horror, more unworthy people are buying 1st class ands making upgrades harder to obtain

Also, when travelling on a premium ticket, it becomes a nightmare hopping onto an earlier flight as the cabin gets filled up by those upgrading cheap/free

Andriyko

It does devalue the experience. When a lot of passengers do not pay for flying first class the airline has no incentive or money to invest int the product (which is why it is not so good). And, no, I don't believe that EXPs somehow 'paid' by flying a lot on cheap economy class tickets. However, I think the idea of offering upgrades (it can be debated whether they should be free) on aircraft that have fixed premium cabins is good to ensure that no seat flies empty.

simonrp84

This would probably be the first, and only, example of BA thinking in the long term rather than grabbing every penny they can.

paulwuk

Oh dear

One of the many reasons I'm avoiding BA is the reduction in op-ups from wtp on my routes. Rather than pay £3k 5 weeks out for a wtp ticket and fly in wtp, I pay £1600 3 days out on QR and fly in F-

Baec however is still handy if you're GGL, as you get to fly almost whenever and wherever you want on holiday long haul for about £600pp.

sts603

I agree with you that QR offers better service for less money and BAEC really only becomes a winning program when you hit GGL.

sts603

BA makes a handsome profit becasue it is blessed with having a hub at Heathrow - an airport proximate to a global financial center and desintation for the rich (business and pleasure) with an enormous amount of price insensitive premium demand (and a lot of demand for the cheap seats down back) that prioritzes non-stops. What works to make a profit for BA isn't necessarily what it would work for competitors. And it certainly doesn't mean they couldn't make more money by running a better airline.

sts603

Those complaints are entirely legitimate. That occurs when airlines don't follow their very set procedures about the hierarchy of upgrades. That's kind of irrelevant to being entitled to an upgrade. Its being entitled to an upgrade when by the airline's own rules you are entilted to one. Very different.

gms

You have no visibility to what happened behind the scenes here, yet you seem to be rushing to make the assumption that BA has some conspiracy against you and lied to you about the availability. Multiple scenarios may have played out here, such as:

- Multiple last minute F cancellations/flight changes/missed connections freed up some seats
- The person who got upgraded may have been selected for specific operational reasons, such as broken seat, or the fact he was sat next to an empty J seat and they needed to upgrade two people from World Traveller Plus due to overbooking in that cabin, etc

As a long-term Gold tier member, you must surely have by now worked out some of the intricacies of the EC. Such as the fact that BA does not automatically open up every remaining seat to Avios.

I am struggling to understand why not receiving an upgrade on one occasion would make you decide to quit the EC.

108912

During one of those 'Gold GL dinners' BA has I had a discussion with a manger from BA Exec Club about the seemingly random way involuntary upgrades are handled. His response was that in fact it is anything but. He explained that when the flight is 'finalised' -24HR from departure revenue management will first decide if there is a need for an upgrade list (ie whether a cabin is overbooked). If so, an upgrade list is made with passengers in order. Whilst tier or CIV plays a part it is NOT an automatic element in regard to place on the list (or being included on it at all). He explained the computer searches for previous invol upgrades, number of flights on BA versus those that have Gold from primarily flying on other OW carriers, passengers of a lower tier that have many BA flights but that tend to be in Y/W - and then frequent flyer status in terms of tiers will come into it.

AFAIK none of the european airlines have a 'free for all' approach to upgrades using Avios. Otherwise (as others have pointed out) savvy travellers will always fly premium cabins while seldom paying the applicable fares.

In the same way BA changed their policy in being able to upgrade at the airport for cash a while back as some people were using it to buy discount J/F tickets regularly. Now I believe some are entitled to buy airport upgrades but to others it's 'not available'.

There are a certain number of redemption seats available - end of. It's no different to a commercial revenue seat. If six J seats are available at a promotional fare of £2000 and those six seats were sold - yet 20 empty seats still remained at the higher fare class of £3500 - would you argue the point that one of the £2K seats be released as there are 20 empty seats? Of course not. The seats allocated in that fare bucket have gone.

dennishoog

Thank you very much for those reply and comments, I think it doesn't effected any Executive Club policy at all. They do what they want . even to keep empty seats in a flight . it is the way how they threat their members. But if someone who had a golden tier for more than ten years expected a better treatment. Why someone got a automatic upgrade and someone don't . It might be a occasionally case, but I don't think so. Even post a complain to the Executive Club Board even got any effects. I ready want to say that I am very disappointed at the way how they handle this matter. Compare with Emirates and Etihad which I also have a goldcard member. We got better services and attention. Maybe BA have too many Gold Tier members that they don't care one more or less gold tier passenger. Or it might be a case of discrimination . because I am a Asian and the one who has been upgraded was a English. I hope it wasn't but I doubt.