Calchas

Now you know the danger of false alarms

Yesitsme

Some people on this thread remind me of this passenger:

Global321

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Several times I have written the same thing... I will get out of the plane as quickly as possible without interfering with anyone else's ability to get off the plane. The rest, as you say, is irrelevant.

If you have ever been in a life threatening situation, trust me (or don't, I don't care), you will think a lot about divinity!

Morals are absolutely important. It is the moral choice between getting off the plane quickly without interfering with others versus the immoral choice of shoving others out of the way and getting off quicker - both of which would follow the CC safety commands. (I clearly choosing the former many times in this thread.) And if you don't think that happens, you have not read the briefs from survivors.

Don't worry KARFA, I accept my moral responsibility to drag your butt off the plane with me, even if we disagree here.

KARFA

So bottom line is if this does happen to you, you will take your bag and disregard the instructions given because you think you know better?

Can I help you

Love it, is it wrong of me to have wished this had happened to one of my past customers?

Global321

Please show me where I said that I would take my bag in any absolute way?

What I have said...

And more recently...

I will still pull you out with me KARFA. I like you and there is nothing you can do about!

KARFA

I asked you a question, I wasn't quoting you. So let me ask again, if this does happen to you, would you take your bag and disregard the instructions given because you think you know better?

Global321

I think I have been clear... it is not black and white... and your framing is misleading about 'knowing better', but, here goes...

BA LAS, JetBlue LAX... Computer bag at my feet and I can grab as I am going without slowing others, probably grab it.

Asiana SFO... getting out and dragging you with me. (No bags)

I don't really see too many where I would go into the overhead. But maybe Southwest in Denver. (Not that I fly Southwest.)

I still like you KARFA. Nothing you can do about that.

Yesitsme

Not at all. We nearly had one recently. Knew better than the Captain, he did.

Waterhorse

So as far as I can make out, the premise is that in an RTO or any other situation that requires an evacuation, as it cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that taking your bags with you can be a danger to your or someone else's life then each passenger should be free to ignore the safety advice given by the company, all civil regulators and the perceived wisdom of the whole industry and to do what they like. Yet you claim to always give a safety demo to your passengers as a private pilot, one has to wonder why, after all surely you would extend to them the same rights as those that you extend to yourself or any other passenger that flies commercially, namely the right to ignore safety advice and strike off alone.

If the Manchester proves anything it is that these things can be absolutely time critical. 3 out of 6 exits not opening on an aircraft, what is to stop that happening again? If any of those remaining exits then become blocked by a bag - and for an overwing it would not need to be large - even if that bag were to be subsequently abandoned inside but near to an exit it would help to restrict access to said exit. This would help to hinder or slow down the evacuation, in a time critical event. We should not be seeking to condone or justify such irresponsibility.

As I have said several times, during the course of an event like this you would not have sufficient knowledge, experience or information to be able to make a rational decision as to whether to saunter off bags in hand, or to run like the hounds of hell were behind you, it is only after the fact that these decisions can be examined with any facility.

The one thing that the aviation industry strives for is to minimise any potential threat. This is not just an airline being obsessed with something that is irrelevant.

As an aside in regard to mobiles and navigation equipment, I have seen an ADF needle deviate sharply by 30degrees as the tell tale buzz of a mobile trying to get a signal came through the headset - then again a few seconds later when the process was repeated. The regulations still say that phones must be completely switched off when we attempt an autoland in Cat II or III conditions. Maybe that myth hasn't been quite busted - maybe it has.

KARFA

So based on your view of the situation from your seat, and based on your understanding of the nature of the emergency, you would disregard the instructions given and take your bag in some circumstances.

710 77345

It does seem we are going round in circles somewhat, and it's worth pointing out that the slides are actually incredibly hard to puncture.

Hopefully the AAIB will look at the amount of hand baggage taken by passengers, and see if it was too much.

I'm not sure this is true, certainly not at BA. I hope that the AAIB look at fixing things that are much easier to change than human behaviour after a crash.

BA's LGW 777 fleet has inconsistent rules regarding the dividers between the cabin depending on which plane you are on. Should these dividers be open or closed for take-off?

Likewise, the safety videos on these planes don't let passengers work out where the emergency exits are - if they included this information, a future evacuation could be faster.

Global321

Much more nuanced than that, as I wrote. Depends on the situation.

If you are asking if I feel confident making an assessment for my safety - and my safety only without impeding others - yes, I 100% do. I have a lot of aviation experience.

BTW - EVERYONE on the plane makes the same assessment every day. (e.g. seatbelt sign on, go to toilet or wait.)

I will say again, if I can grab my computer bag without slowing anyone else down like JetBlue LAX, what do you care? (And no you cannot change my scenario and say it will slow others down. That is the assumption in this scenario.) If it was like Asiana in SFO, as I told you before, no, I will just grab you and go!

BlueThroughCrimp

You cannot ever guarantee this though.

MADPhil

That is something I find very unsatisfactory. On BA you know that you should take the sign seriously and the crew enforce it. On AA it often stays on when there appears to be no risk, passengers get up to get bags out of the rack or go to the toilet and the crew do not enforce the sign. The only clue you get on AA is if the crew are seated with their belts fastened. I am sure that there are similar inconsistencies on other airlines.