Aug 26, 2015, 8:04 pm
Last edit by: percysmith
Letter template 1 (percysmith): Please explain "obvious pricing error" Post #258
Discussion about the ex-Germany fares
Aug 26, 2015, 4:34 am
#181
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All this talk of the legality of what BA has done is very interesting but is anyone actually going to do anything about it I wonder?
Aug 26, 2015, 4:44 am
#182
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Some badaxx FTer should sue. I already know some FTers thinking about it.
I think the prognosis is most who seriously try will be quickly shut up by settlements and NDAs but there's no bar to using the Wiki here to post draft claims and keep each other update until that point.
I doubt BA will let anyone close winning actually get a judgment. I rather look forward to hearing from people who have their case tossed out and the judges'/tribunal officers' reasons why.
I think the prognosis is most who seriously try will be quickly shut up by settlements and NDAs but there's no bar to using the Wiki here to post draft claims and keep each other update until that point.
I doubt BA will let anyone close winning actually get a judgment. I rather look forward to hearing from people who have their case tossed out and the judges'/tribunal officers' reasons why.
Aug 26, 2015, 5:04 am
#184
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What is the cost of a stamp / registered letter in the UK ?
Aug 26, 2015, 5:05 am
#185
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I am starting to agree, even though I didn't initially.
I don't have actual skin in the game, but I tried to buy the DUS-SYD tix as a way to spend 40 hours of F in the air for my birthday. When I tried to include the missus (won't dare to exclude) the fare was gone.
I've mused whether my case is litigable.
At first I thought not (using Lufthansa criteria)
1. I've no actual need to fly from DUS-SYD. In fact, being where I am, it's easily shown as a detour.
2. I've bought no replacement tix.
3. Seats ran out in five hours (not sure if BA was involved) but in any case BA cancelled bookings within 24 hours.
But then I read the HP case above as well. The contracts are not void cos the plaintiffs don't need a printer (snapping them up for profit is).
And (argurably) I don't have to buy a replacement ticket. Plaintiffs in HP did not have to go buy a replacement colour laser. Argurably neither should I. I wonder can I liquidate the damages at the filing date and plead I can't afford a holiday like this unless I win the case and get the damages...
The county court judge in Lufthansa spelled out the correct criteria: "The Defendant must therefore satisfy me that (a) there was a mistake; and that (b) Mr PASSENGER knew that there was a mistake, or (c) Mr PASSENGER ought to have known that there was a mistake on the basis of the information available to him."
(a) Was there a mistake? We really don't know what exactly it is right now. In HP a training template was used, the label for the price became the price and the judge determined it was a "manifest mistake". In Lufthansa a 0 was omitted. We don't even know what's the mistake with the BA fare (J fare for F seat is the best guess I've seen but it's only a guess until BA makes more known).
(b) We don't know there's a mistake if we don't know what is the mistake.
(c) Should we have known?
On one hand the offer is not within the known bounds of impossibility. The judge in Lufthansa accepted a 90% discounted fare can be bona fide.
But OTOH it wasn't available for a very long period of time. However, this is not entirely in BA's favour because it still could still mean two things - either the deal is a limited seat deal or it's a mistake as BA said.
I don't have actual skin in the game, but I tried to buy the DUS-SYD tix as a way to spend 40 hours of F in the air for my birthday. When I tried to include the missus (won't dare to exclude) the fare was gone.
I've mused whether my case is litigable.
At first I thought not (using Lufthansa criteria)
1. I've no actual need to fly from DUS-SYD. In fact, being where I am, it's easily shown as a detour.
2. I've bought no replacement tix.
3. Seats ran out in five hours (not sure if BA was involved) but in any case BA cancelled bookings within 24 hours.
But then I read the HP case above as well. The contracts are not void cos the plaintiffs don't need a printer (snapping them up for profit is).
And (argurably) I don't have to buy a replacement ticket. Plaintiffs in HP did not have to go buy a replacement colour laser. Argurably neither should I. I wonder can I liquidate the damages at the filing date and plead I can't afford a holiday like this unless I win the case and get the damages...
The county court judge in Lufthansa spelled out the correct criteria: "The Defendant must therefore satisfy me that (a) there was a mistake; and that (b) Mr PASSENGER knew that there was a mistake, or (c) Mr PASSENGER ought to have known that there was a mistake on the basis of the information available to him."
(a) Was there a mistake? We really don't know what exactly it is right now. In HP a training template was used, the label for the price became the price and the judge determined it was a "manifest mistake". In Lufthansa a 0 was omitted. We don't even know what's the mistake with the BA fare (J fare for F seat is the best guess I've seen but it's only a guess until BA makes more known).
(b) We don't know there's a mistake if we don't know what is the mistake.
(c) Should we have known?
On one hand the offer is not within the known bounds of impossibility. The judge in Lufthansa accepted a 90% discounted fare can be bona fide.
But OTOH it wasn't available for a very long period of time. However, this is not entirely in BA's favour because it still could still mean two things - either the deal is a limited seat deal or it's a mistake as BA said.
1. BA had a heavily advertised sale on at the time. This may be a coincidence but it makes (c) much harder for BA to establish.
2. A number of people spoke with BA agents after the fares had been withdrawn to make amendments, seat selection, etc. There have been no reports of any agent noticing the fare was an "obvious error" or "invalid". It is difficult for BA to argue (c) if their own agents didn't notice an "obvious error".
Aug 26, 2015, 5:07 am
#186
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I guess, like Citi http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/citi-...disclosed.html , they won't treat you seriously until they are in receipt of some court filing.
Aug 26, 2015, 5:10 am
#187
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Some badaxx FTer should sue. I already know some FTers thinking about it.
I think the prognosis is most who seriously try will be quickly shut up by settlements and NDAs but there's no bar to using the Wiki here to post draft claims and keep each other update until that point.
I doubt BA will let anyone close winning actually get a judgment. I rather look forward to hearing from people who have their case tossed out and the judges'/tribunal officers' reasons why.
I think the prognosis is most who seriously try will be quickly shut up by settlements and NDAs but there's no bar to using the Wiki here to post draft claims and keep each other update until that point.
I doubt BA will let anyone close winning actually get a judgment. I rather look forward to hearing from people who have their case tossed out and the judges'/tribunal officers' reasons why.
Having said that I suspect on commercial grounds that most who seriously go for this will end up having their claim settled or flights reinstated. This is simply an exercise, as with rejecting EC 261/2004 claims at the first hurdle, of filtering out the majority who can't be bothered so they reduce the overall costs significantly.
Aug 26, 2015, 5:34 am
#188
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Aug 26, 2015, 5:44 am
#189
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Here's a question I have - what happened to the original fares that were supposed to be offered? If this was an accidental swap between J and F fares, where are they now?
I would have jumped at the chance to get to SYD ex-Germany for €2k in J.
I would have jumped at the chance to get to SYD ex-Germany for €2k in J.
Aug 26, 2015, 5:48 am
#191
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I think they have since inflated the fares (both J and F) sufficiently now so that when they quote the new considerably higher fare it sounds more like an obvious mistake rather than just a bit out.
Aug 26, 2015, 5:55 am
#192
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Aug 26, 2015, 5:56 am
#193
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I'm going to run this through my buddy who is Partner at the country's most respected law firm, and see what they say about this farce.
Aug 26, 2015, 6:05 am
#194
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Some badaxx FTer should sue. I already know some FTers thinking about it.
I think the prognosis is most who seriously try will be quickly shut up by settlements and NDAs but there's no bar to using the Wiki here to post draft claims and keep each other update until that point.
I doubt BA will let anyone close winning actually get a judgment. I rather look forward to hearing from people who have their case tossed out and the judges'/tribunal officers' reasons why.
I think the prognosis is most who seriously try will be quickly shut up by settlements and NDAs but there's no bar to using the Wiki here to post draft claims and keep each other update until that point.
I doubt BA will let anyone close winning actually get a judgment. I rather look forward to hearing from people who have their case tossed out and the judges'/tribunal officers' reasons why.
I wonder too. If I had been part of it, I would at least have written a legal-ishly letter to BA, demanding to reinstate my flight as the contract was completed. I would also state that I do not accept that BA can one-sidedly decide it was an obvious pricing error. Not in this case at least. That requires a higher authority, although obviously it would be in both our interest to simply reinstate the flights and I will tell nobody.
What is the cost of a stamp / registered letter in the UK ?
What is the cost of a stamp / registered letter in the UK ?
Aug 26, 2015, 6:06 am
#195
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Well I have already said I won't be doing anything. I knew it was a mistake fare when I saw it posted on here and looked at it on ba.com - hence why I rushed to book something before it was withdrawn. If I tried to claim anything else I would be lying which generally is not a good idea in a court proceedings.
