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BA clamping down on missed final ex-EU sector [?]

BA clamping down on missed final ex-EU sector [?]

Old Jul 25, 15, 1:24 pm
  #601  
 
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What is the actual loss to BA of a passenger skipping the final segment? Presumably this has to be demonstrated by BA for any action to succeed.
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Old Jul 25, 15, 1:24 pm
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK View Post
Isn't this where the discussion is concentrating at present???
One question mark will do.

To answer your question, yes it is one of the areas. And?
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Old Jul 25, 15, 1:34 pm
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
I think that looks at the issue from the wrong end of the lens. BA offer the prices they do from the likes of DUB or AMS not to be "nice" but because they are close to what other airlines charge.

For instance, if you are going to Capteown this Autumn or winter, you can fly Ethiopian from Rome, Emirates from AMS, or Turkish from Dublin for about 1000 return in J each. I suspect only a handful of people do fly from DUB with an intention to finish their trip in LHR and if BA clamps down, people who pay the current ex-DUB on BA will just fly with one of those airlines for much cheaper and it is unlikely that DUB, AMS, or FCO will see any decline in traffic as a result.
Cracking fares I must say.
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Old Jul 25, 15, 1:36 pm
  #604  
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Originally Posted by go_around View Post
What is the actual loss to BA of a passenger skipping the final segment? Presumably this has to be demonstrated by BA for any action to succeed.
That is one of the areas of difficulty on the part of an airline. Establishing loss could be difficult.

Originally Posted by Flexible preferences View Post
One question mark will do.

To answer your question, yes it is one of the areas. And?
I was confused by the relevancy of your statement. We were discussing an action before the court, so your statement didn't make sense hence my question for clarity.
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Old Jul 25, 15, 1:50 pm
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Originally Posted by go_around View Post
What is the actual loss to BA of a passenger skipping the final segment? Presumably this has to be demonstrated by BA for any action to succeed.
You're right that it will be hard (or more precisely impossible) for an airline to prove any loss. Therefore an airline will never sue to recover "losses" in the narrower sense. The question will be if a clause in a contract of carriage that allows the carrier to charge the fare difference (without having to prove a loss) is enforceable.
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Old Jul 25, 15, 1:54 pm
  #606  
 
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I chuckled when "go_around" (of all people) asked (in all innocence) what BA's losses are when a passenger skips a final segment. That was the point many, many pages ago when I leapt in to offer my view on how a Court might assess quantum of damages and said I thought BA would struggle to prove any loss.

So, can we start this thread all over again - and I promise to be on my best behaviour this time around!
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Old Jul 25, 15, 2:23 pm
  #607  
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Just thought this would be interesting as a 'data point':

I called YF concerning a BA cancellation that left me with a 7-hour connection or an airport change to my Ex-EU destination of AMS - asked them to cancel the final leg on the basis that I would book a shorter connection myself from LGW with a different carrier.

After an extremely long time on hold (15 minutes!), during which I anticipated a lecture on the fare difference and how BA are 'clamping down', to my surprise the agent returned to say that was no problem - so I now have an Ex-EU fare ending in LON at no fare difference.

I guess you might argue I've gained nothing - but at least I can sleep at night ;-)
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Old Jul 25, 15, 2:33 pm
  #608  
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Originally Posted by tim85 View Post
You're right that it will be hard (or more precisely impossible) for an airline to prove any loss. Therefore an airline will never sue to recover "losses" in the narrower sense. The question will be if a clause in a contract of carriage that allows the carrier to charge the fare difference (without having to prove a loss) is enforceable.
I don't think that there has ever been a suggestion that carriers would seek to recover losses, if there are any losses, from hidden city fraud. The discussion issue is whether a carrier can recalculate the fare for the route the passenger chose to ultimately fly. Thus, if DUB-LHR-JFK-LHR-DUB is GBP 1,000 and DUB-LHR-JFK-LHR is GBP 1,500, the carrier, if it ever really did sue, would sue for GBP 500.

Practically speaking, if the ticket was issued by a TA, the carrier would simply debit the TA for the 500 and if the ticket was paid by CC, the carrier would simply debit the CC for 500 (as authorized by the terms of the ticket and CC).

I still suspect that the first salvo here won't revolve around lawsuits, but rather around the perks of frequent flying, e.g. status & awards.
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Old Jul 25, 15, 2:37 pm
  #609  
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
I don't think that there has ever been a suggestion that carriers would seek to recover losses, if there are any losses, from hidden city fraud. The discussion issue is whether a carrier can recalculate the fare for the route the passenger chose to ultimately fly. Thus, if DUB-LHR-JFK-LHR-DUB is GBP 1,000 and DUB-LHR-JFK-LHR is GBP 1,500, the carrier, if it ever really did sue, would sue for GBP 500.

Practically speaking, if the ticket was issued by a TA, the carrier would simply debit the TA for the 500 and if the ticket was paid by CC, the carrier would simply debit the CC for 500 (as authorized by the terms of the ticket and CC).

I still suspect that the first salvo here won't revolve around lawsuits, but rather around the perks of frequent flying, e.g. status & awards.
Correct. It then becomes a penalty not a loss.

Genuinely. I suggest you read the guidance to businesses I posted earlier, which I think gives a decent idea in very plain English how so totally biased against businesses the new laws are and how that claim would play out from many different aspects.
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Old Jul 25, 15, 2:42 pm
  #610  
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Originally Posted by simons1 View Post
Cracking fares I must say.
Yep. European markets are very heterogeneous. In business, you can get very cheap deals from Ireland, Scandinavia, or Italy, whilst France, the UK, and Switzerland are quite expensive.
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Old Jul 25, 15, 3:27 pm
  #611  
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I was invited to review this thread, and having read through the last twenty four hours worth of posts, I can see several that fell short of our community standards, enough to undertake a full review. Id normally prefer to do this in the background but not so in this case. I think wed all benefit from a short break.

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Old Jul 26, 15, 11:20 am
  #612  
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Some datapoints in case anyone is interested. Following a full review of this thread, from post 300 onward we found nine cases of baiting (in violation of rules 12.2 and 12.3); three blatant personal attacks (in violation of rule 12.2, warranting deletion); and two threats of libel (which well overlook as they appeared to have been made in jest). Not an impressive set of stats no matter how we care to look at it.

All said, it is dark day when members who share a common passion reduce themselves to belittling and attacking others purely because they happen not to share a point of view.

It has been an illuminating discussion and I loved Paralytic's snake reference but since the substantial points have now cycled full circle, it would be best that we retire this thread. I'm sure the topic will reemerge in due course though.

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