KARFA

What specific law and section do you think would state that repricing or cancelling your BAEC account is onerous?

Again, interesting argument but not a great deal of basis in law unfortunately. You can't keep drawing conclusions based on points of law from unrelated cases and apply them to this situation.

IAN-UK

If you miss your first flight, for whatever reason - whim, missed train, tummy ache - you have a major problem on your hands: BA will most probably act. You will talk to your insurer.

I'm not sure why we have this pissing around with excuses for missing the last flight. If BA wishes to act, it will, regardless of the (fabricated) reason you present for missing the flight. You can save that for your insurers.

For various reasons adumbrated at great length in this and many other threads, BA choses not to act.

That, it seems to me, is that. If you are nervous, don't play around with inventing excuses: just take the last leg and fly home under your own steam. The inconvenience, and cost, represent the price you pay for a much reduced ticket.

henkybaby

There is a distinct difference between 'changing your plans' and 'cancelling your plans'. My take is that the rules for cancellation apply. Unfortunately I am not a magistrate, so my take is rather unimportant.

However, if cancellation is not the automatic penalty (for not being able to make your flight) that makes these tickets flexible again...

uk1

I am not ignoring anything and the law is very clear if you choose to read it.

We have done this countless times. Until BA takes someone to court we will not know for sure. Even then it doesn't create a precedent, just a potential "unwanted decision" for BA. The closest determination I have seen is in the case of holiday cancellations when courts have decided several times that the most a penalty can be levied is the quantifiable direct administrative costs not "missed opportunity".

The relevant regulations are in plain English and called The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008. An attempt to charge a consumer in the UK I believe falls foul of several provisions. The imposition of a charge or the confiscation of points is I believe covered adequately.

Wozza2404

Fact: I have stopped an ex-EU ticket in LHR as my pregnant wife felt unwell after the flight. We were hand baggage only. I called BA after we cleared customs, said
"My wife is ill. Probably as a result of your bouncing beef bourginon. We won't be able to continue to XXX."
"Thanks for letting us know Mr. Wozza. I'll let the gate know. Hope your wife feels better."

No repurcussions, and I was barely Silver at the time, so it was nothing to do with status.

Fact: If BA removed my Avios for missing a sector, I would work out the price of my millionish points at the sale price from the BA site (£500 for 32000 or whatever it is) and sue them for that amount. No-one really knows whether I would be successful, but I'd be pretty confident.

GTR56

I wonder if anyone at BA enjoyed reading this today.

I wouldn't be surprised if they went after travel agents that were repeatedly responsible for making bookings with the customer dropping the last leg.

If BA pursue this with customers directly, the only thing that will happen is a lost customer. Even if they are making peanuts on some of these bookings I would have thought carrying one passenger for peanuts is better than another airline taking them.

If BA are making a sizeable loss on these fares then they should be looking at their pricing structure, however, the fact they offer these fares suggests that they are quite capable of dealing with the margins whatever they may be.

jayceeohh

Also, for many of us with kids at State school, today marked the first day of the summer holidays. Was this timed to give the likes of me, attempting my 1st ex eu with family in Club the heebeejeebees this morning over my coco pops? If so it worked.

HIDDY

Well indeed....it's not as if it's every seat on every ex EU flight either. With them heading towards a 1 billion profit I doubt very much they'd waste resources chasing those with eccentric tendencies.

orbitmic

That's not really the way it works. An airline needs all type of customers: those who get to pay cheap fares on restricted tickets are actually just as needed as those paying expensive flexible tickets. It is all about proposing the right price to different segments of customers depending on market conditions.

In other words, BA is not losing money by offering fares that give it a chance to sell a FRA-HKG in J to a Frankfurt based customer who is being offered far more convenient options from LH and CX. By contrast, there is a reason why it sets a very different price to the London-based customer. They do not lose money when a Frankfurt based customer pays Frankfurt based prices, but they would if all London based customers started getting fares aimed at others. When a customer buys a FRA-LHR-HKG//HKG-LHR-FRA and fly only FRA-LHR-HKG//HKG-LHR, what they do is that they only take 50% of the inconvenience to get 100% of the discount, which in and by itself upsets the airline's pricing strategy.

I am not saying that the airline's attitude is right or wrong, just that it is a mistake to think that one seat needs to be sold at one price for the whole plane to be profitable. It is a far more refined alchemy than that.

megaloman

I've just priced FRA-LHR-CTU-HKG-LHR for 14-16 Aug, total price: £1029.48



And same itinerary with extra LCY-FRA leg, total price: £1019



Who do I pay the £10 difference to? Is £10 worth the hassle?!

IcHot

What I'm saying is that the black box of airline pricing makes that very difficult to do in a fair or defensible manner.

I'm not sure I would want to go into any court, as the corporation, and risk finding the judge that thinks it is nonsense how it is priced in the first place and dismisses it as an unreasonable and overreaching trade practice.

kanderson1965

It would be interesting to find out if a BAEC member has legal title to Avios and TPs. The former maybe, as they have a monetry value due to BA selling them, probably less so with TPs.

henkybaby

Since they are taxable (in Germany) I think that this debate it is settled for the EU. You own them and they represent a value. BA can't touch them.

uk1

The arguments do not even have to reach that far.

An early requirement under the regulations I previously mentioned state that any relevant and important restrictions or material conditions must be prominently and clearly stated at the moment you commit yourself. This doesn't mean a generalised warning along the lines of "IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that restrictions apply" or "Please note that when you commit yourself you are agreeing to our standard terms and conditions ......"

To comply it should say something as clear as "IMPORTANT NOTICE: If you fail to complete any sector then you will be charged £12345:67 in addition the initial fare". Without that very clear and explicit warning there is a decent chance it doesn't pass that test.

Even then, attempting to apply such a charge would then be questioned in the way you suggest, and as I mentioned earlier other determinations with respect to penalties doesn't sound helpful.

henkybaby

Some airlines have a 'no show charge' but the argument there is that because you did not cancel they could not resell the inventory. It is not related to hidden city / throwaway ticketing

Here is another:

http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-in...et-transaction

I don't think LH, AF or KL have it.