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Old Jul 1, 2015, 11:47 am
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Last edit by: EsherFlyer
Quick list of Caribbean stations for use in ITA, etc (click to view routes on Great Circle Mapper): ANU,GCM,GND,NAS,PLS,POS,SKB,TAB,UVF

Caribbean - northern summer 2015
Code:
BA 253   NAS-GCM  Nassau to Grand Cayman      16:05 - 16:40  Mon, Tue, Wed, Fri
BA 252   GCM-NAS  Grand Cayman to Nassau      18:30 - 21:00  Mon, Tue, Wed, Fri
BA 2157  ANU-TAB  Antigua to Tobago           15:10 - 16:30  Mon, Fri
BA 2156  TAB-ANU  Tobago to Antigua           18:15 - 19:35  Mon, Fri
BA 2157  ANU-GND  Antigua to Grenada          15:10 - 16:20  Tue
BA 2156  GND-ANU  Grenada to Antigua          17:50 - 19:00  Tue
BA 2157  ANU-SKB  Antigua to St Kitts         15:10 - 15:40  Wed, Sat
BA 2256  SKB-ANU  St Kitts to Antigua         17:10 - 17:40  Wed, Sat
BA 2157  ANU-PLS  Antigua to Providenciales   15:10 - 17:05  Sun
BA 2256  PLS-ANU  Providenciales to Antigua   18:35 - 20:30  Sun
BA 2159  UVF-POS  St Lucia to Port of Spain   14:45 - 15:50  Not Sat
BA 2158  POS-UVF  Port of Spain to St Lucia   17:35 - 18:35  Not Sat
BA 2159  UVF-GND  St Lucia to Grenada         14:45 - 15:30  Sat
BA 2159  UVF-GND  St Lucia to Grenada         14:45 - 15:30  Tue (22.09-06.10)
BA 2158  GND-UVF  Grenada to St Lucia         17:00 - 17:45  Sat
BA 2158  GND-UVF  Grenada to St Lucia         17:50 - 18:35  Tue (22.09-06.10)
Caribbean - northern winter 2015/16
Code:
BA 253   NAS-GCM  Nassau to Grand Cayman      15:55 - 17:30  Tue, Wed, Fri, Sat
BA 252   GCM-NAS  Grand Cayman to Nassau      19:15 - 20:45  Tue, Wed, Fri, Sat
BA 2157  ANU-TAB  Antigua to Tobago           16:05 - 17:30  Mon, Fri
BA 2156  TAB-ANU  Tobago to Antigua           19:10 - 20:30  Mon, Fri
BA 2157  ANU-SKB  Antigua to St Kitts         16:05 - 16:35  Wed, Sat
BA 2256  SKB-ANU  St Kitts to Antigua         18:05 - 18:35  Wed, Sat
BA 2157  ANU-PLS  Antigua to Providenciales   16:05 - 17:00  Thu, Sun
BA 2156  PLS-ANU  Providenciales to Antigua   18:30 - 21:20  Thu, Sun
BA 2159  UVF-POS  St Lucia to Port of Spain   16:00 - 17:00  Not Wed or Sat
BA 2158  POS-UVF  Port of Spain to St Lucia   18:45 - 19:45  Not Wed or Sat
BA 2159  UVF-GND  St Lucia to Grenada         16:00 - 16:50  Wed, Sat
BA 2158  GND-UVF  Grenada to St Lucia         18:20 - 19:10  Wed, Sat
Caribbean - northern summer 2016
Code:
BA 253   NAS-GCM  Nassau to Grand Cayman      16:05 - 16:40  Mon, Tue, Wed, Fri
BA 252   GCM-NAS  Grand Cayman to Nassau      18:30 - 21:00  Mon, Tue, Wed, Fri
BA 2157  ANU-TAB  Antigua to Tobago           15:10 - 16:30  Mon, Fri
BA 2156  TAB-ANU  Tobago to Antigua           18:15 - 19:35  Mon, Fri
BA 2157  ANU-SKB  Antigua to St Kitts         15:10 - 15:40  Wed, Sat
BA 2256  SKB-ANU  St Kitts to Antigua         17:10 - 17:40  Wed, Sat
BA 2157  ANU-PLS  Antigua to Providenciales   15:10 - 17:05  Thu, Sun
BA 2256  PLS-ANU  Providenciales to Antigua   18:35 - 20:30  Thu, Sun
BA 2159  UVF-POS  St Lucia to Port of Spain   14:45 - 15:50  Not Wed or Sat
BA 2158  POS-UVF  Port of Spain to St Lucia   17:35 - 18:35  Not Wed or Sat
BA 2159  UVF-GND  St Lucia to Grenada         14:45 - 15:30  Wed, Sat
BA 2158  GND-UVF  Grenada to St Lucia         17:00 - 17:45  Wed, Sat
Non-Caribbean - northern summer 2015
Code:
BA 125   BAH-DOH  Bahrain to Doha             20:20 - 21:10
BA 124   DOH-BAH  Doha to Bahrain             23:00 - 23:45
BA 73    AUH-MCT  Abu Dhabi to Muscat         20:35 - 21:40  Not Fri
BA 73    AUH-MCT  Abu Dhabi to Muscat         19:50 - 20:55  Fri
BA 72    MCT-AUH  Muscat to Abu Dhabi         23:30 - 00:35
BA 15    SIN-SYD  Singapore to Sydney         19:20 - 05:05
BA 16    SYD-SIN  Sydney to Singapore         15:30 - 21:45
Non-Caribbean - northern winter 2015/16
Code:
BA 125    BAH-DOH  Bahrain to Doha            20:55 - 21:45  Not Sun
BA 125    BAH-DOH  Bahrain to Doha            20:50 - 21:40  Sun
BA 124    DOH-BAH  Doha to Bahrain            23:45 - 00:35
BA 73     AUH-MCT  Abu Dhabi to Muscat        21:50 - 22:50  Mon
BA 73     AUH-MCT  Abu Dhabi to Muscat        21:40 - 22:40  Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri
BA 73     AUH-MCT  Abu Dhabi to Muscat        21:55 - 22:55  Sat, Sun
BA 72     MCT-AUH  Muscat to Abu Dhabi        00:30 - 01:35  Mon
BA 72     MCT-AUH  Muscat to Abu Dhabi        00:25 - 01:30  Not Mon
BA 15     SIN-SYD  Singapore to Sydney        20:05 - 07:00
BA 16     SYD-SIN  Sydney to Singapore        16:25 - 21:30
Non-Caribbean - northern summer 2016
Code:
BA 125   BAH-DOH  Bahrain to Doha             20:20 - 21:10
BA 124   DOH-BAH  Doha to Bahrain             23:00 - 23:45
BA 73    AUH-MCT  Abu Dhabi to Muscat         20:35 - 21:40  Not Fri
BA 73    AUH-MCT  Abu Dhabi to Muscat         19:50 - 20:55  Fri
BA 72    MCT-AUH  Muscat to Abu Dhabi         23:30 - 00:35
BA 15    SIN-SYD  Singapore to Sydney         19:20 - 05:05
BA 16    SYD-SIN  Sydney to Singapore         15:30 - 21:45
Notes:-
  1. [*]
  2. [*]
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BA Fifth Freedom flights in the Caribbean

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Old Jul 1, 2015, 3:32 pm
  #16  
 
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Found this one at st kitts in 2004!

http://www.caribbeannewsnow.com/cari...1/tourists.htm
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Old Jul 1, 2015, 3:33 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by jcm9000
Found this one at st kitts in 2004!

http://www.caribbeannewsnow.com/cari...1/tourists.htm
Looks like a charter alas

20 minute immigration! I suppose they were all carrying UK passports, in you go sir, no need to look inside—these days you only get that kind of service at the edges of the Schengen zone.
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Old Jul 1, 2015, 4:04 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by Calchas
It's in the thread title ... it's intended to be a comprehensive list of fifth freedom flights operated by BA in the Caribbean.
But why? The only reason I can think of is for US based BAEC to get easy access to quick flights on BA metal as part of qualification. Is that it ?
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Old Jul 1, 2015, 5:31 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by travelmad478
The list took a couple of hours to compile...perhaps there is some easier way than the brute-force approach that I used, but I don't know what that way is!
I have a bit of software (still under development) that I use to scan the OW timetables for mythical routes that I might fly sometime. It took me about ten minutes to build a list, and 1h50m to check it (I've learned a lot about Freedoms tonight ), so we're even at the moment! It could speed things up if it is accurate.

I used a rectangle of ground (well mostly water ) that seemed about right, looking for flights marketed by BA without a codeshare in addition to those you listed it identified:
  • ANU-GND BA2157
  • GND-ANU BA2156

And a couple that differ by flight number for a route that you had, which appears to be a seasonal thing:
  • PLS-ANU BA2156
  • TAB-ANU BA2256

They show up in the PDF timetable, so presumably are legit.

Apologies if I'm missing a key point as to what should / shouldn't be in .
Last edited by EsherFlyer; Jul 2, 2015 at 1:50 am
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Old Jul 2, 2015, 2:22 am
  #20  
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I've tried a small format edit to the wikipost for readability.

If this doesn't actually work well, please feel free to revert it.
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Old Jul 2, 2015, 3:28 am
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by Calchas
It's in the thread title ... it's intended to be a comprehensive list of fifth freedom flights operated by BA in the Caribbean.
Ok, so we're assuming everyone knows what a Fifth Freedom flight is. OK

I thought it'd be nice to explain that, rather people having to Google it if they don't know.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fifth+freedom+flights
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Old Jul 2, 2015, 3:40 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by EsherFlyer
I have a bit of software (still under development) that I use to scan the OW timetables for mythical routes that I might fly sometime. It took me about ten minutes to build a list, and 1h50m to check it (I've learned a lot about Freedoms tonight ), so we're even at the moment! It could speed things up if it is accurate.

I used a rectangle of ground (well mostly water ) that seemed about right, looking for flights marketed by BA without a codeshare in addition to those you listed it identified:
  • ANU-GND BA2157
  • GND-ANU BA2156

And a couple that differ by flight number for a route that you had, which appears to be a seasonal thing:
  • PLS-ANU BA2156
  • TAB-ANU BA2256

They show up in the PDF timetable, so presumably are legit.

Apologies if I'm missing a key point as to what should / shouldn't be in .
If you have the software it might be interesting and useful to expand the list to any BA 5th freedom and split it by region: caribbean, asia, middle east...
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Old Jul 2, 2015, 5:32 am
  #23  
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I like all the suggestions that have been made in the last few posts, as well as Globaliser's formatting improvements. EsherFlyer, yes, this list is intended for those of us who need BA metal segments but don't feel like going to LHR to get them. If your software will be able to keep the list updated for changes (or, as nufnuf77 suggests, to expand it to other regions), that will be great. Some of the flights are indeed seasonal, and flight times do change--in fact, I just got an email from BA this morning notifying me of a minor time change to my POS-UVF flight in January. (Yes, I have made the edit to the wiki!)

And Paralytic, I agree that it is possibly one bit of jargon too many to have "fifth freedom" in my thread title but that is what 12 years of FT has done to me
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Old Jul 2, 2015, 6:09 am
  #24  
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I've done some further updating and improvements done to the wikipost.
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Old Jul 2, 2015, 6:20 am
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Originally Posted by nufnuf77
If you have the software it might be interesting and useful to expand the list to any BA 5th freedom and split it by region: caribbean, asia, middle east...
After this thread piqued my interest I checked the whole set, and think they are all well known:

Orig Dest
ANU GND
ANU PLS
ANU SKB
ANU TAB
GCM NAS
GND UVF
POS UVF

JFK SNN

BAH DOH
AUH MCT

SIN SYD

AIUI there are additional ways to score the 4 flights. I think this is a list of the flights operated by BA and affiliates that don't originate in UK (after removing the ones above). If someone wants to sanity check it then I should be able to add more detail and put it in the Wiki if that is the right place for it. If this is missing a chunk of qualifiers I'll try and figure out why if someone defines he rules.

Route (Country)
EWR (US) - ORY (FR)
JFK (US) - ORY (FR)
ORY (FR) - EWR (US)
ORY (FR) - JFK (US)

CPT (ZA) - JNB (ZA)
DUR (ZA) - JNB (ZA)
JNB (ZA) - CPT (ZA)
JNB (ZA) - DUR (ZA)
JNB (ZA) - PLZ (ZA)
PLZ (ZA) - JNB (ZA)

And flights that are simultaneously IB coded & operated should count, but I can't find any not originating / terminating in Spain so there is nothing to list that would be useful.
Last edited by EsherFlyer; Jul 2, 2015 at 6:39 am Reason: Trying to clarify the IB bit
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Old Jul 2, 2015, 6:20 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by travelmad478
... and flight times do change--in fact, I just got an email from BA this morning notifying me of a minor time change to my POS-UVF flight in January.
Are you sure about the times for this? I see that you edited the wikipost from "1735-1835" to "1745-1845" - yet everything that I can see for January 2016 suggests that POS-UVF will be at 1845-1945.
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Old Jul 2, 2015, 6:28 am
  #27  
 
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£437 for 4 hops around the Caribbean seems fair!


http://postimg.cc/image/v1vdjsa1h/
Last edited by Mattyb44; Jul 2, 2015 at 6:33 am Reason: Hmm image not being shown
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Old Jul 2, 2015, 6:44 am
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by Globaliser
Are you sure about the times for this? I see that you edited the wikipost from "1735-1835" to "1745-1845" - yet everything that I can see for January 2016 suggests that POS-UVF will be at 1845-1945.
I did wonder whether it was worth having the times in the Wiki. Is it a level of detail too far? If a seasonal change or non-aligned daylight saving change sends times forward / back for one persons flight in 6 months time but not for another traveller's flight next week how does that get represented?

EDIT: I see you're ahead of me there - still looks pretty tidy ^.
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Old Jul 2, 2015, 6:45 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by EsherFlyer
CPT (ZA) - JNB (ZA)
DUR (ZA) - JNB (ZA)
JNB (ZA) - CPT (ZA)
JNB (ZA) - DUR (ZA)
JNB (ZA) - PLZ (ZA)
PLZ (ZA) - JNB (ZA)
Thanks, EsherFlyer.

I'm not sure that SNN-JFK is useful as it can't be booked on its own.

On the ZA domestics, I'm pretty sure (from memory) that it's also possible to book:-
  • CPT-DUR
  • CPT-PLZ
  • DUR-CPT
  • DUR-PLZ
  • PLZ-CPT
  • PLZ-DUR

And to add to the Comair list, the international flights:-
  • HRE-JNB
  • JNB-HRE
  • JNB-LVI
  • JNB-MRU
  • JNB-VFA
  • JNB-WDH
  • LVI-JNB
  • MRU-JNB
  • VFA-JNB
  • WDH-JNB
Last edited by Globaliser; Jul 2, 2015 at 7:10 am
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Old Jul 2, 2015, 7:08 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by Globaliser
Thanks, EsherFlyer.

I'm not sure that SNN-JFK is useful as it can't be booked on its own.

On the ZA domestics, I'm pretty sure (from memory) that it's also possible to book:-
  • CPT-DUR
  • CPT-PLZ
  • DUR-CPT
  • DUR-PLZ
  • PLZ-CPT
  • PLZ-DUR
Hmmm. I can quite easily create a list that includes some of those by tweaking things (I've flattened it to be just single direction on each city pair), but then it pulls in other routes that I'm not sure should be in there. Although I get quite a lot of useful info from my queries maybe this is a stretch too far?

Orig Dest
AAL AAR
AAL OSL
AAR BMA
AAR GOT
AAR OSL
BGO BLL
BLL BRU
BLL DUS
BLL MUC
BLL OSL
CPT DUR
CPT JNB
CPT PLZ
DUR JNB
DUR PLZ
HRE JNB
JNB LVI
JNB MRU
JNB PLZ
JNB VFA
JNB WDH
LVI VFA
Last edited by EsherFlyer; Jul 2, 2015 at 7:46 am
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