LHR Terraces vs current Galleries
Jun 30, 2015, 5:31 am
#16
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That's a very strong assertion without any statistics 
I believe that, in real terms, long haul premium air travel is cheaper now than it was previously.
There is some evidence that airfares have fallen by 50% between 1978 and 2013.
There's another article suggesting that the fare LON - NYC has fallen from $6,300 in the 1950s to $1,100 today (in today's money).
Have you any evidence to the contrary
I believe that, in real terms, long haul premium air travel is cheaper now than it was previously.
There is some evidence that airfares have fallen by 50% between 1978 and 2013.
There's another article suggesting that the fare LON - NYC has fallen from $6,300 in the 1950s to $1,100 today (in today's money).
Have you any evidence to the contrary
The showers in all of the lounges (including the current T3 lounges) are better than those in T5. The T5 showers are cheaply designed, installed and maintained. The previous T1 and T4 arrivals lounge showers were a quantum leap better than the current offering even if sometimes you have a short wait. The MB Spa showers in T4 were also significantly better than the current offering. I think even the CCR in T4 was better than what we have right now. Certainly the furnishing was of higher quality and better maintained.
Jun 30, 2015, 5:48 am
#17
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,753
Ah the rose tinted spectacles!
Yes well the domestic T1 lounge was a great thing when I first started to use it, and the evidence of those chocolate covered flapjacks is still lies between me and the keyboard. I was a daily commuter for a few years and at the time I thought the Terrace lounges were great, and LGW had even better lounges!
But it was sometimes very hot in there, standing room only downstair, and often crowded upstairs too. Delays were endemic, making a poor quality travel experience, or so it seemed to me. Limited food, poor quality coffee, few powerpoints, very weak connectivity (reduced to using the Rabbit system installed over WH Smith for a few years).
To go from that to Flounge / CCR for the same NCL/EDI flights was a huge, overwhelming step up from my perspective. Hot food all day long, plenty of it, vast range of seats, decent coffee, lots more soft drinks, power points (I know we moan but T1 wasn't good), space, wifi and computers that vaguely work, the list goes on.
What people seem to forget is the massive influx of status passengers. In the old days I was typically the only status passenger to NCL, maybe another silver or Gold, that never happens now. EDI was always more status rich, but it's not unusual to have half the aircraft with status. The old lounges would never have coped with that.
The only big thing retrograde is the bathrooms, with the individual cabins rather than the more traditional mass use set-up in T1. I can see they wanted to improve the privacy but I don't think it worked, at least for the male gender.
Yes well the domestic T1 lounge was a great thing when I first started to use it, and the evidence of those chocolate covered flapjacks is still lies between me and the keyboard. I was a daily commuter for a few years and at the time I thought the Terrace lounges were great, and LGW had even better lounges!
But it was sometimes very hot in there, standing room only downstair, and often crowded upstairs too. Delays were endemic, making a poor quality travel experience, or so it seemed to me. Limited food, poor quality coffee, few powerpoints, very weak connectivity (reduced to using the Rabbit system installed over WH Smith for a few years).
To go from that to Flounge / CCR for the same NCL/EDI flights was a huge, overwhelming step up from my perspective. Hot food all day long, plenty of it, vast range of seats, decent coffee, lots more soft drinks, power points (I know we moan but T1 wasn't good), space, wifi and computers that vaguely work, the list goes on.
What people seem to forget is the massive influx of status passengers. In the old days I was typically the only status passenger to NCL, maybe another silver or Gold, that never happens now. EDI was always more status rich, but it's not unusual to have half the aircraft with status. The old lounges would never have coped with that.
The only big thing retrograde is the bathrooms, with the individual cabins rather than the more traditional mass use set-up in T1. I can see they wanted to improve the privacy but I don't think it worked, at least for the male gender.
Jun 30, 2015, 6:18 am
#18
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The Terraces concept was revolutionary at the time it was introduced, and served BA well over the years. Unfortunately however, it would just not cope in the current BA era, LGW being a prime example of this.
The downfall of the Galleries product is generally speaking the crowding and over usage per sq metre of lounge space. For me, the product works the majority of the time, although I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement. Hopefully the refurbishments will help as are long overdue, and in addition, the new club changes may perhaps lighten the load slightly over time. A family of 4 wouldn't usually live in a house without giving any form of updating/TLC for 8 years would they, never mind the half million plus people per month that pass through the T5 lounges.
The downfall of the Galleries product is generally speaking the crowding and over usage per sq metre of lounge space. For me, the product works the majority of the time, although I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement. Hopefully the refurbishments will help as are long overdue, and in addition, the new club changes may perhaps lighten the load slightly over time. A family of 4 wouldn't usually live in a house without giving any form of updating/TLC for 8 years would they, never mind the half million plus people per month that pass through the T5 lounges.
Jun 30, 2015, 8:12 am
#19
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Well you're not the first person to say that to me...no doubt you won't be the last.
I can only give an opinion on the merits of the T4 CCR over the T5 CCR on one visit to each and my impression was the T5 CCR was far and away superior to the T4 facility in terms of ambience, service and offerings.
You have to remember the dining room in the T4 CCR wasn't open to everyone and was only open at certain times of the day. Even then entry was strictly monitored and you had to have a voucher to get in.
Also worth noting....when looking through older threads on the T4 CCR you will find scathing posts about the facility back then especially regarding the quality of food and service even from the same people who complain about the T5 CCR today....seems unlike lounges some people will never change.
I can only give an opinion on the merits of the T4 CCR over the T5 CCR on one visit to each and my impression was the T5 CCR was far and away superior to the T4 facility in terms of ambience, service and offerings.
You have to remember the dining room in the T4 CCR wasn't open to everyone and was only open at certain times of the day. Even then entry was strictly monitored and you had to have a voucher to get in.
Also worth noting....when looking through older threads on the T4 CCR you will find scathing posts about the facility back then especially regarding the quality of food and service even from the same people who complain about the T5 CCR today....seems unlike lounges some people will never change.
Jun 30, 2015, 8:55 am
#20
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Well you're not the first person to say that to me...no doubt you won't be the last.
I can only give an opinion on the merits of the T4 CCR over the T5 CCR on one visit to each and my impression was the T5 CCR was far and away superior to the T4 facility in terms of ambience, service and offerings.
You have to remember the dining room in the T4 CCR wasn't open to everyone and was only open at certain times of the day. Even then entry was strictly monitored and you had to have a voucher to get in.
Also worth noting....when looking through older threads on the T4 CCR you will find scathing posts about the facility back then especially regarding the quality of food and service even from the same people who complain about the T5 CCR today....seems unlike lounges some people will never change.
I can only give an opinion on the merits of the T4 CCR over the T5 CCR on one visit to each and my impression was the T5 CCR was far and away superior to the T4 facility in terms of ambience, service and offerings.
You have to remember the dining room in the T4 CCR wasn't open to everyone and was only open at certain times of the day. Even then entry was strictly monitored and you had to have a voucher to get in.
Also worth noting....when looking through older threads on the T4 CCR you will find scathing posts about the facility back then especially regarding the quality of food and service even from the same people who complain about the T5 CCR today....seems unlike lounges some people will never change.
Based on your recollections of the T4 CCR I went looking for some old travel photos and notes - indeed, brought me back to how limited the facility actually was compared to T5 CCR or even First lounge before "enhancements." I think what I was originally recalling was the quiet ambiance more than anything else. Maybe with age though I am just more sensitive to the ruckus going on around me
Jun 30, 2015, 8:56 am
#21
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Late 1990's to now is the comparison point though and that would be interesting given the effective monopoly of 3 airlines groupings across the Atlantic.
The showers in all of the lounges (including the current T3 lounges) are better than those in T5. The T5 showers are cheaply designed, installed and maintained. The previous T1 and T4 arrivals lounge showers were a quantum leap better than the current offering even if sometimes you have a short wait. The MB Spa showers in T4 were also significantly better than the current offering. I think even the CCR in T4 was better than what we have right now. Certainly the furnishing was of higher quality and better maintained.
The showers in all of the lounges (including the current T3 lounges) are better than those in T5. The T5 showers are cheaply designed, installed and maintained. The previous T1 and T4 arrivals lounge showers were a quantum leap better than the current offering even if sometimes you have a short wait. The MB Spa showers in T4 were also significantly better than the current offering. I think even the CCR in T4 was better than what we have right now. Certainly the furnishing was of higher quality and better maintained.
Jun 30, 2015, 9:01 am
#22
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Posted it before, but in a thread that was not that well frequented, so maybe I can please some (most likely not all).
Even though from the Daily Fail, some may find this article on how flying on BA changed since the Eighties interesting: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr...-Eighties.html
EDIT : Redid the link. It wasn't working for me.
Even though from the Daily Fail, some may find this article on how flying on BA changed since the Eighties interesting: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr...-Eighties.html
EDIT : Redid the link. It wasn't working for me.
Last edited by henkybaby; Jun 30, 2015 at 9:26 am
Jun 30, 2015, 9:05 am
#23
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Posted it before, but in a thread that was not that well frequented, so maybe I can please some (most likely not all).
Even though from the Daily Fail, some may find this article on how flying on BA changed since the Eighties interesting: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr...-Eighties.html
Even though from the Daily Fail, some may find this article on how flying on BA changed since the Eighties interesting: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr...-Eighties.html
Jun 30, 2015, 9:19 am
#24
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I'd love to see the hard statistics about how air fares have moved in the last 15 years - if that's even possible given different route structures and competitive positions. My impression is that much of the fall in air fares on long haul came in the years following the introduction of the 747, and the rate of decline had slowed by 1999. I started flying TATL monthly in about 2006 and economy fares have certainly increased since then in absolute terms and by significantly more than the APD. However, it's my impression that it's easier to find cheap C fares more often. By contrast, I feel that fares to the ME area, and connecting points have fallen - the result of huge increases in capacity.
As to short haul, clearly fares have fallen dramatically, with an entirely different competitive landscape.
As to short haul, clearly fares have fallen dramatically, with an entirely different competitive landscape.
Jun 30, 2015, 9:33 am
#25
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The 1990s probably were a "golden age" of air travel for us: cheap fares (remember the £199 returns to New York?) and Executive Club lounges with Molton Brown proper massages. Decent Bordeaux in Club World and very good wine indeed (still) in First. Happy days, before governments started hammering us with departure taxes and the BA bean-counters started bean-counting in earnest - cheap fixtures and fittings in T5, poorer quality wine in the lounges and in the air, etc.
Jun 30, 2015, 9:38 am
#26
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Jun 30, 2015, 9:53 am
#27
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Jun 30, 2015, 9:55 am
#28
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Jun 30, 2015, 10:13 am
#29
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I used to regularly buy nonstop on UA, AA, BA, etc to European cities for my grandchildren and other relatives throughout the 2000's for $500 USD or less, many BOS or NYC to LHR for under around $350 all in. Also sending many grandchildren to Israel and Asia gateways during this time period for less than $600. Coach of course.
