Acceptable amount to steal from the Galleries Lounge
Jul 5, 2019, 12:42 pm
#286
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Scotland
Posts: 377
I look forward to you explaining what part of the definition of theft states that taking something without the consent of the owner does not imply stealing ? Simply put if Police receive a call that property has been taken, without permission, then that person will be dealt with under the law.
Jul 5, 2019, 1:24 pm
#287
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 574
Agree. Also, whilst my one/two cans of Speedbird would be consumed and cans disposed of in a responsible re-cycled way, on my last visit to Galleries the half eaten plates of food and half filled glasses were being cleaned up by staff was ridiculous ! Seen in there and places like hotel buffets - so much waste. But because I took mine out of a lounge its a throw away the key job .... !
Jul 5, 2019, 1:34 pm
#288
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Jul 5, 2019, 2:18 pm
#289
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,595
Conversely, sat at Gate 21 at LGW yesterday, I was amazed by the people who were visiting the vending machine to pay £2 (Yes, TWO POUNDS) for a 500ml bottle of bloody water! 
Does the young generation die without endless water/coffee consumption, or is it just an expensive fad?
Does the young generation die without endless water/coffee consumption, or is it just an expensive fad?
I had to question the server if this was correct. Even she said they only put the prices up because they serve over 1000 bottles a week at that outlet alone and that I'm part of the reason why the prices are so rediculously high. Stop buying them and the prices will fall. And happy to report I didn't.
Jul 5, 2019, 2:28 pm
#290
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HKG
Programs: BA GGL & CCR
Posts: 600
I look forward to you explaining what part of the definition of theft states that taking something without the consent of the owner does not imply stealing ? Simply put if Police receive a call that property has been taken, without permission, then that person will be dealt with under the law.
It’s been left intentionally by its owner, with clear indications that it for others to help themselves to. Common law would consider it abandoned property, which the owner has relinquished all rights to. Once you take a can of soda, all rights of ownership in perpetuity, transfer to you, including the right to remove it, sell it, destroy it or consume it.
The argument that the property hasn’t been abandoned and has been loaned or made available to guests to use is non valid given its a consumable, the original owner can’t claim additional damages or a loss for an item that they offered freely to others for consumption, because of the location in which it is consumed. To be theft, the owner has to suffer a loss.
Now an an argument of a conditional gift could be made. They are ‘gifting’ you the items on condition you consume it there, with the right to withdraw that gift if you don’t. But this is also invalid as it is a form of contract law. The gifter would have to obtain written or at least verbal agreement of the recipient to the stipulations of the contract prior to accepting the gift. A sign that is requesting a courtesy, does not an implied binding contract between two parties make.
Which leaves us with one final recourse, management reserves the right of admission, which of course they can exercise then or in the future. However if they use the word ‘thief’ or ‘stole’, you have a case of your own. You would be being ejected or refused for being discourteous, not stealing.
Jul 5, 2019, 6:44 pm
#291
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dundee
Programs: BA Plastic. HH Diamond. Speedwell Bar Lifetime Platinum.
Posts: 1,425
I look forward to you explaining what part of the definition of theft states that taking something without the consent of the owner does not imply stealing ? Simply put if Police receive a call that property has been taken, without permission, then that person will be dealt with under the law.
Jul 5, 2019, 8:08 pm
#292
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I look forward to you explaining what part of the definition of theft states that taking something without the consent of the owner does not imply stealing ? Simply put if Police receive a call that property has been taken, without permission, then that person will be dealt with under the law.
But even if you continued to to take goodies for consumption outside the lounge, then I can't see the police being remotely interested.
Some time back I, along with servers, helpers, supervisors and other passengers watched a woman select pieces from the fruit out on display and put it in a Tesco bag. She selected the fruit carefully it in a steady, open manner: not a touch of furtiveness. She took her time, and she filled the bag. No one said anything, she wasn't challenged, wrestled to the ground or placed under arrest.
Jul 5, 2019, 9:24 pm
#293
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In the air
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Posts: 8,717
Someone about to lose BA status and moving from the UK could stand to benefit greatly by thinking carefully about how to move large quantities of stuff and emptying out the entire BA wine displays then.
Jul 5, 2019, 9:40 pm
#294
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
I really don't think it is as simple as that. It's not a supermarket with stuff put out for sale. The airline is offering food and drink, although you might believe they want passengers to consume the stuff only in the lounge, that doesn't have to be the case. If it were, and they wanted to be in a position to enforce restrictions on taking stuff out, then they'd probably need to get you to acknowledge those resrictions as a condition attached to lounge use.
But even if you continued to to take goodies for consumption outside the lounge, then I can't see the police being remotely interested.
Some time back I, along with servers, helpers, supervisors and other passengers watched a woman select pieces from the fruit out on display and put it in a Tesco bag. She selected the fruit carefully it in a steady, open manner: not a touch of furtiveness. She took her time, and she filled the bag. No one said anything, she wasn't challenged, wrestled to the ground or placed under arrest.
But even if you continued to to take goodies for consumption outside the lounge, then I can't see the police being remotely interested.
Some time back I, along with servers, helpers, supervisors and other passengers watched a woman select pieces from the fruit out on display and put it in a Tesco bag. She selected the fruit carefully it in a steady, open manner: not a touch of furtiveness. She took her time, and she filled the bag. No one said anything, she wasn't challenged, wrestled to the ground or placed under arrest.
Jul 5, 2019, 11:34 pm
#295
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: BA Gold, AA Lifetime Gold 1.8mm, IC Spire Ambassador, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold et al
Posts: 4,350
I really don't think it is as simple as that. It's not a supermarket with stuff put out for sale. The airline is offering food and drink, although you might believe they want passengers to consume the stuff only in the lounge, that doesn't have to be the case. If it were, and they wanted to be in a position to enforce restrictions on taking stuff out, then they'd probably need to get you to acknowledge those resrictions as a condition attached to lounge use.
But even if you continued to to take goodies for consumption outside the lounge, then I can't see the police being remotely interested.
Some time back I, along with servers, helpers, supervisors and other passengers watched a woman select pieces from the fruit out on display and put it in a Tesco bag. She selected the fruit carefully it in a steady, open manner: not a touch of furtiveness. She took her time, and she filled the bag. No one said anything, she wasn't challenged, wrestled to the ground or placed under arrest.
But even if you continued to to take goodies for consumption outside the lounge, then I can't see the police being remotely interested.
Some time back I, along with servers, helpers, supervisors and other passengers watched a woman select pieces from the fruit out on display and put it in a Tesco bag. She selected the fruit carefully it in a steady, open manner: not a touch of furtiveness. She took her time, and she filled the bag. No one said anything, she wasn't challenged, wrestled to the ground or placed under arrest.
I think we have all witnessed similar activity in lounges and, as you say, there is virtually never any intervention on the part of the lounge staff so it is perfectly reasonable for anybody to assume that, even if it is discouraged by some occasional signage here and there, the practice is tolerated. Whether it is theft or not is a moot point but it is absolutely clear to me that those operating the lounges aren't remotely interested in enforcing their own rule so why would the police be?
Jul 6, 2019, 12:20 am
#296
Join Date: Feb 2002
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The section of property law concerning abandoned property...
It’s been left intentionally by its owner, with clear indications that it for others to help themselves to. Common law would consider it abandoned property, which the owner has relinquished all rights to. Once you take a can of soda, all rights of ownership in perpetuity, transfer to you, including the right to remove it, sell it, destroy it or consume it.
The argument that the property hasn’t been abandoned and has been loaned or made available to guests to use is non valid given its a consumable, the original owner can’t claim additional damages or a loss for an item that they offered freely to others for consumption, because of the location in which it is consumed. To be theft, the owner has to suffer a loss.
Now an an argument of a conditional gift could be made. They are ‘gifting’ you the items on condition you consume it there, with the right to withdraw that gift if you don’t. But this is also invalid as it is a form of contract law. The gifter would have to obtain written or at least verbal agreement of the recipient to the stipulations of the contract prior to accepting the gift. A sign that is requesting a courtesy, does not an implied binding contract between two parties make.
Which leaves us with one final recourse, management reserves the right of admission, which of course they can exercise then or in the future. However if they use the word ‘thief’ or ‘stole’, you have a case of your own. You would be being ejected or refused for being discourteous, not stealing.
Last edited by Dambus; Jul 6, 2019 at 12:27 am
Jul 6, 2019, 12:58 am
#297
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
BA should simply put up a sign saying that the items in the lounge are for consumption within the lounge only (as they do at LGW), and then build a prominent clause in the BAEC T&C that the membership status and accrued Avios would be forfeited should they be found to breach the lounge conditions.
That should put a lot of people off taking things out of the lounge.
I genuinely fail to understand how people do not feel utterly embarrassed by their cheapskate behaviour of taking 10 cans from lounges etc. though. I've seen it at all sorts of lounges, not just BA...
That should put a lot of people off taking things out of the lounge.
I genuinely fail to understand how people do not feel utterly embarrassed by their cheapskate behaviour of taking 10 cans from lounges etc. though. I've seen it at all sorts of lounges, not just BA...
Jul 6, 2019, 1:03 am
#298
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Scotland
Posts: 377
Absolutely spot on.
I think we have all witnessed similar activity in lounges and, as you say, there is virtually never any intervention on the part of the lounge staff so it is perfectly reasonable for anybody to assume that, even if it is discouraged by some occasional signage here and there, the practice is tolerated. Whether it is theft or not is a moot point but it is absolutely clear to me that those operating the lounges aren't remotely interested in enforcing their own rule so why would the police be?
I think we have all witnessed similar activity in lounges and, as you say, there is virtually never any intervention on the part of the lounge staff so it is perfectly reasonable for anybody to assume that, even if it is discouraged by some occasional signage here and there, the practice is tolerated. Whether it is theft or not is a moot point but it is absolutely clear to me that those operating the lounges aren't remotely interested in enforcing their own rule so why would the police be?
Jul 6, 2019, 1:28 am
#299
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Cheltenham
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Posts: 2,398
I look forward to you explaining what part of the definition of theft states that taking something without the consent of the owner does not imply stealing ? Simply put if Police receive a call that property has been taken, without permission, then that person will be dealt with under the law.
Jul 6, 2019, 1:38 am
#300
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HKG
Programs: BA GGL & CCR
Posts: 600
There’s a potential case for a US PC537 (defrauding an innkeeper) charge, that hinges on intent at time of accessing the facility. But an admission of prior intent on social media, a pattern of behavior or an action like bringing a bag or a bottle to decant liquor into could form the basis of a compelling argument.