Changes to the Executive Club are now live
Jul 4, 2015, 6:17 am
#136
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,760
For me the biggest loss was domestic connections on RFS, and this has absolutely decimated the value of them, and indeed avios for me.
With near impossible longhaul availability, the decent value shorthaul made me value my avios.
Whilst the earning rate has dropped, I've not burned a single avios point since the changes went live and I can't see it happening any time soon. A real shame.
With near impossible longhaul availability, the decent value shorthaul made me value my avios.
Whilst the earning rate has dropped, I've not burned a single avios point since the changes went live and I can't see it happening any time soon. A real shame.
Yes andset1191, I've got to agree with you there. The removal of the free domestic sector was BA's biggest mistake, it's really unfair in my opinion. How can they expect people from the regions to even try and earn Avios when they have to use a large chunk of them just to connect onto another flight. BA should have thought that one through. 
Secondly for shorthaul, the changes on off peak aren't so bad. So a purely domesic GLA-LHR is now 3k rather than 4.5k, and GLA to BRU has gone from 4.5k to 6k. Given that the free domestic add-on was a bit "too good to be true", and so this outcome seems reasonable to me.
So I'm earning fairly close to what I was before (admittedly I do a fair wadge of CE travel) and I'm spending a similar amount as before. Swings and roundabouts. As before there are sweet spots to look for, particularly in combination with IB.
Jul 4, 2015, 6:26 am
#137
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,338
Sorry CWS, I disagree.
Although it doesn't really affect me, I think that it's unfair because members from the regions shouldn't feel limited to choosing flights on days that are off-peak. Let's face it, we all try to maximise our Avios.
BA should have given members a certain number of free domestic sectors, so that it would be fairer, but wouldn't be abused by people booking EDI-GLA with a 3 month stopover in London for example!
Although it doesn't really affect me, I think that it's unfair because members from the regions shouldn't feel limited to choosing flights on days that are off-peak. Let's face it, we all try to maximise our Avios.
BA should have given members a certain number of free domestic sectors, so that it would be fairer, but wouldn't be abused by people booking EDI-GLA with a 3 month stopover in London for example!
Jul 4, 2015, 6:39 am
#139
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,338
Let's take a typical example in economy: EDI-LHR-BUD.
before the changes 7.5k Avios
after the changes - peak 12k, off-peak 10.5k
Whichever way you look at it, that's a significant increase, especially as the earnings have been reduced.
For London area members, LHR-BUD hasn't changed but has been reduced in off-peak, hence a saving of 1k Avios. Looks to me like the South-East has the better deal!
before the changes 7.5k Avios
after the changes - peak 12k, off-peak 10.5k
Whichever way you look at it, that's a significant increase, especially as the earnings have been reduced.
For London area members, LHR-BUD hasn't changed but has been reduced in off-peak, hence a saving of 1k Avios. Looks to me like the South-East has the better deal!
Jul 4, 2015, 6:39 am
#140
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,760
Jul 4, 2015, 7:36 am
#141
Suspended
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,959
Glasgow to zone 1 Europe is now either double the avios peak, nearly double the avios off peak; and crucially double the fee - so GLA-BRU previously 9k return plus £35 is now 17-18k plus £70.
As for the longhaul availability, unfortunately I only get a rota four months at a time (and usually don't get it til the first day), so it's just not possible for me.
Jul 4, 2015, 7:47 am
#142
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Wedged somewhere between BTS and VIE ✈
Programs: Star Alliance Gold (A3 Gold), Oneworld Emerald (BA Gold), Hilton Diamond
Posts: 6,338
Surely you can get a LCC flight for something near just the cash element of a new RFS booking. BA really shot themselves in the foot here.
You'd have to be from another planet if you thought that this change was fair.
You'd have to be from another planet if you thought that this change was fair.
Jul 4, 2015, 7:55 am
#143
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,565
OK, I'll bite. 'Too good to be true'? Too funny!
Very limited understanding of the value of Avios to those on their own dime and collecting it in the Regions via partners that that pay BA in cash.
They took away this UPI completely. Short-haul RFS was the only realistic spending possibility for many.
It's highly amusing that they reduced the Avios amount which really only benefits those ex-LON, except those who want to do a domestic only redemption (and that really only applies to EDI, GLA, ABZ). That seems "too good to be true".
That was the real slap in the face to regional pax...that those ex-LON actually get it cheaper and BA are helping said pax keep their Avios pot for longer.
There was a simple solution to the "too good to be true" and it was to no longer permit stopovers. Pricing models should reflect the spending of Avios. I.e. GLA-LHR-BRU is not the same price as it split into two separate flights. The free stopover model replicates that, the other did not.
Case in point. My friends and family members who collected Avios or converted Amex MR see little incentive to choose BA for revenue travel because KLM is 99% of the time cheaper than BA. Price up a GLA-AMS-GVA in G class for £160 vs BA who want over £300. The Avios you earn from said trip is now a joke and the same trip is now 18k peak 16k off plus a hilarious £70 fee. Now given availability on GLA/NCL-LHR (for a same day journey) you need to book LONG a way in advance when easyJet fares and the like are there and certainly too are KL fares in G class.
Plus at the same time, unless one requires no-notice last minute travel and will spend on WT flights the fact was most pax were saving Avios for longhaul CW/F (in addition to RFS) and that is just as dead as the dodo.
Summary is. For regional flyers (with that yawn inducing list of Flyertalk exceptions such as those who only redeem for domestic) the point and value of Avios has plummeted enormously. BA is just as transactional as the rest. Only time will tell if this is a good strategy or not.
Very limited understanding of the value of Avios to those on their own dime and collecting it in the Regions via partners that that pay BA in cash.
They took away this UPI completely. Short-haul RFS was the only realistic spending possibility for many.
It's highly amusing that they reduced the Avios amount which really only benefits those ex-LON, except those who want to do a domestic only redemption (and that really only applies to EDI, GLA, ABZ). That seems "too good to be true".
That was the real slap in the face to regional pax...that those ex-LON actually get it cheaper and BA are helping said pax keep their Avios pot for longer.
There was a simple solution to the "too good to be true" and it was to no longer permit stopovers. Pricing models should reflect the spending of Avios. I.e. GLA-LHR-BRU is not the same price as it split into two separate flights. The free stopover model replicates that, the other did not.
Case in point. My friends and family members who collected Avios or converted Amex MR see little incentive to choose BA for revenue travel because KLM is 99% of the time cheaper than BA. Price up a GLA-AMS-GVA in G class for £160 vs BA who want over £300. The Avios you earn from said trip is now a joke and the same trip is now 18k peak 16k off plus a hilarious £70 fee. Now given availability on GLA/NCL-LHR (for a same day journey) you need to book LONG a way in advance when easyJet fares and the like are there and certainly too are KL fares in G class.
Plus at the same time, unless one requires no-notice last minute travel and will spend on WT flights the fact was most pax were saving Avios for longhaul CW/F (in addition to RFS) and that is just as dead as the dodo.
Summary is. For regional flyers (with that yawn inducing list of Flyertalk exceptions such as those who only redeem for domestic) the point and value of Avios has plummeted enormously. BA is just as transactional as the rest. Only time will tell if this is a good strategy or not.
Jul 4, 2015, 8:00 am
#144
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Spire Ambassador, Starbucks Gold,
Posts: 624
I'm fortunate to live in LON so the RFS hasn't really been an issue (plus have saved a few Avios on off-peak redemptions). I was also lucky enough to book in a few dog-legs with 'stop-overs' like ABZ-LHR-GLA and GLA-LHR-BHD' for 4.5k Avios one way. I was happy to play the system when it was there, but knew I was getting a good deal and don't mind that it's gone.
However, I do feel sorry for my parents up in the north of Scotland as the cost of their RFS spring breaks have doubled. I think there should have been be some discount if an internal is connecting to a long haul when they got rid of the free domestics.
Still - any kick back is better than nothing and no one is forcing us to fly BA. It could be worse...!
MrMutton
However, I do feel sorry for my parents up in the north of Scotland as the cost of their RFS spring breaks have doubled. I think there should have been be some discount if an internal is connecting to a long haul when they got rid of the free domestics.
Still - any kick back is better than nothing and no one is forcing us to fly BA. It could be worse...!
MrMutton
Jul 4, 2015, 8:02 am
#145
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,565
However, I do feel sorry for my parents up in the north of Scotland as the cost of their RFS spring breaks have doubled. I think there should have been be some discount if an internal is connecting to a long haul when they got rid of the free domestics.
Still - any kick back is better than nothing and no one is forcing us to fly BA. It could be worse...!
MrMutton
Jul 4, 2015, 8:49 am
#146
Suspended
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,959
So essentially:
Shorthaul - pay domestic avios and taxes
Longhaul - pay domestic taxes only
Jul 4, 2015, 1:30 pm
#147
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: LON BCN SYD
Programs: BA, OZ, A3, VA, VS, DL, QF, former BD and others
Posts: 1,074
It is a shame here is no serious competition from a legacy carrier. If Little Red had been more successful here would at least be competition on the AngloScottish routes and that might have kept BA on their toes in terms of FFP offerings (and pricing - BA's prices LHR-EDI and GLA are so much more than they were when BD also flew the route).
I feel like giving up on BA, and that's flying into/out of London. if I lived elsewhere in the UK I would probably be looking at what direct flights were available for SH and connections via hums other than LHR for LH.
I feel like giving up on BA, and that's flying into/out of London. if I lived elsewhere in the UK I would probably be looking at what direct flights were available for SH and connections via hums other than LHR for LH.
Jul 5, 2015, 7:47 am
#148
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 411
The changes have hit those of us who live in the regions really hard. A return Reward Flight Saver to anywhere other than London is now at least £70 plus 16000 avios. In many cases I can get a direct flight with another airline for less than £70 making the avios virtually worthless for flights.
In the past I paid much more for BA flights than I would for other airlines and didn't mind indirect routing, as I could justify to myself that it was building status with BA that I could use with future RFS. As RFS is now virtually useless to me I have little incentive to maintain status in BA, so will only now only choose BA if it is the cheapest. I also have little reason to collect avios from other sources such as Tesco or hotel stays.
They did need to make changes as I'm sure it was costing them with people booking one way flights from EDI to GLA with a stopover in London for example, or just tagging a free domestic onto a the end of a European flight with many months of a gap.
I get the impression BA doesn't care much for those of us in the regions clogging up their Heathrow landing slots, as if they still wanted us to fly BA they would have made changes that still left something in it for us. They could have for example done away with the stopover and only allowed the next flight or a flight with 24 hours, or they could have charged say 50% more avios for adding the domestic connection but still left the RFS at £35 return instead of doubling it to £70.
In the past I paid much more for BA flights than I would for other airlines and didn't mind indirect routing, as I could justify to myself that it was building status with BA that I could use with future RFS. As RFS is now virtually useless to me I have little incentive to maintain status in BA, so will only now only choose BA if it is the cheapest. I also have little reason to collect avios from other sources such as Tesco or hotel stays.
They did need to make changes as I'm sure it was costing them with people booking one way flights from EDI to GLA with a stopover in London for example, or just tagging a free domestic onto a the end of a European flight with many months of a gap.
I get the impression BA doesn't care much for those of us in the regions clogging up their Heathrow landing slots, as if they still wanted us to fly BA they would have made changes that still left something in it for us. They could have for example done away with the stopover and only allowed the next flight or a flight with 24 hours, or they could have charged say 50% more avios for adding the domestic connection but still left the RFS at £35 return instead of doubling it to £70.
Sep 22, 2015, 3:21 am
#149
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: US of A
Programs: Delta Diamond, United 1K, BA Blue, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 1,775
I have not flown since before the changes were announced, but they came to light quite prominently on my recent trip to the US (I was rebooked via DFW on my way to JAX):
LHR > PHL -- Y/O -- 20 TPs, 887 Avios
PHL > DFW -- Y/Y -- 20 TPs, 1,302 Avios
DFW > JAX -- Y/Y -- 20 TPs, 919 Avios
For my TATL to PHL to get as many TPs and way fewer Avios than internals is just abysmal. I understand that Y is a fully flexible bucket and both of those internals could well have been more expensive than my TATL segment, but still. BA sure don't make it easy to square that circle...
LHR > PHL -- Y/O -- 20 TPs, 887 Avios
PHL > DFW -- Y/Y -- 20 TPs, 1,302 Avios
DFW > JAX -- Y/Y -- 20 TPs, 919 Avios
For my TATL to PHL to get as many TPs and way fewer Avios than internals is just abysmal. I understand that Y is a fully flexible bucket and both of those internals could well have been more expensive than my TATL segment, but still. BA sure don't make it easy to square that circle...
Oct 5, 2015, 1:54 pm
#150
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London
Programs: BAEC (Gold), Hilton (Diamond), Le Club Accor (Platinum)
Posts: 171
First, hello all.
Secondly, thank you. I am a longtime lurker who has benefitted hugely from the collective knowledge of this forum over the past couple of years - I am hugely grateful to many of you!
That said, I have a question that I hope someone can help with. Sorry to revive this thread, but I can't find the answer anywhere.
I have a GRU-LHR redemption booked for next January in CW (complete itinerary is LHR-GIG in First, returning GRU-LHR in CW, booked with an Amex 2-4-1). I booked it before April 28. The date of the GRU-LHR flight is now an Off-Peak date.
There is now availability in First on the GRU-LHR leg, so I am considering upgrading. However, I am not sure how many Avios this will cost. (The explanation in para 16 of this is not clear and I can't find the answer elsewhere: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...and-conditions).
I assume (perhaps because I am a pessimist) that it will be the difference between the current off-peak First Avios price for GRU-LHR (102,000) and the price I paid for C/W (60,000), so 42,00 Avios (plus the change fee [and offline change fee] x2, given there are two of us).
Does anyone know if that is right? Or should it be the difference between the old First redemption rate (90,000) and what I paid for C/W (60,000), so 30,000 (plus charges)?
In truth, it probably doesn't make any difference to my decision (as I am sitting on a reasonably big pile of Avios), but I would rather know the correct answer before calling BA.
Thanks very much.
Secondly, thank you. I am a longtime lurker who has benefitted hugely from the collective knowledge of this forum over the past couple of years - I am hugely grateful to many of you!
That said, I have a question that I hope someone can help with. Sorry to revive this thread, but I can't find the answer anywhere.
I have a GRU-LHR redemption booked for next January in CW (complete itinerary is LHR-GIG in First, returning GRU-LHR in CW, booked with an Amex 2-4-1). I booked it before April 28. The date of the GRU-LHR flight is now an Off-Peak date.
There is now availability in First on the GRU-LHR leg, so I am considering upgrading. However, I am not sure how many Avios this will cost. (The explanation in para 16 of this is not clear and I can't find the answer elsewhere: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...and-conditions).
I assume (perhaps because I am a pessimist) that it will be the difference between the current off-peak First Avios price for GRU-LHR (102,000) and the price I paid for C/W (60,000), so 42,00 Avios (plus the change fee [and offline change fee] x2, given there are two of us).
Does anyone know if that is right? Or should it be the difference between the old First redemption rate (90,000) and what I paid for C/W (60,000), so 30,000 (plus charges)?
In truth, it probably doesn't make any difference to my decision (as I am sitting on a reasonably big pile of Avios), but I would rather know the correct answer before calling BA.
Thanks very much.