Avios/241 Open Jaw - same zone rule?

Old Apr 10, 15, 3:35 am
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Avios/241 Open Jaw - same zone rule?

I'm sure that like many we're using up some Avios/241 ahead of the 28th.

We booked LHR-HKG-LHR at 355 days and now want to change the return. No availabilty HKG-LHR but there was SIN-LHR, which is OK.

Called but the agent said this wasn't possible as SIN-LHR was in a different zone (though clearly the IATA rules would be OK). I thought from discussions on here that rule had gone?

Should I have HUACA'd?
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Old Apr 10, 15, 3:36 am
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Originally Posted by g8kmh View Post
Called but the agent said this wasn't possible as SIN-LHR was in a different zone (though clearly the IATA rules would be OK). I thought from discussions on here that rule had gone?
It has

Should I have HUACA'd?
Yes!
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Old Apr 10, 15, 3:51 am
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Second agent - same response. Zone rule does apply, despite pushing hard on this.

Grr!
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Old Apr 10, 15, 3:55 am
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Originally Posted by g8kmh View Post
Second agent - same response. Zone rule does apply, despite pushing hard on this.
On thinking about it, maybe you still can't change from one zone to another.

The confirmation statement about 241s and open-jaws from BA Executive Club was all about bookings, not changes, iirc.

Can you remove the return leg from your booking, then (later) add a (different) return leg, I wonder?
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Old Apr 10, 15, 4:09 am
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I believe the agents are right - you can't change zones. But SHD's solution is worth a try. Let us know how you get on if you try that approach.
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Old Apr 10, 15, 4:11 am
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You can certainly use a 241 on an open jaw redemption of different Avios zones - I have done so in the last week, with a LGW - MCO ... JFK - LHR booking. MCO and JFK are in different zones.

It may be that you would need to cancel and start again but you may not want to take the risk of losing the outbound availability? As shorthauldad states, it may be that it's a change that is the issue. It seems to get more complicated when you want to change something existing, rather than book something new.

Kind of on-topic, I have been wondering whether I used the right strategy on my recent booking however. I was booking for 4 so I used up both of my 241s and 4 x Gold Upgrades on the booking, with the result that I didn't really end up using many Avios. Actually, in retrospect, the 241s and GUF1/2s will have more value after the 28th April...
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Old Apr 10, 15, 4:21 am
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Given the lack of reward availability at the moment I'm reluctant to do anything which may put us in the 'no flights' situation (or Y back from HKG )

We're all in that catch 22, where if you don't bag flights at +355 they are gone but return legs are then a bit of a game of chance!
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Old Apr 10, 15, 4:26 am
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Surely a competant agent ought to be able to hold redemption seats for you while they process changes on your booking, even if this means the booking has you (temporarily) flying back from HKG and from SIN? It can be reticketed later (very likely, much much later!)
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Old Apr 10, 15, 5:50 am
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Originally Posted by g8kmh View Post
Given the lack of reward availability at the moment I'm reluctant to do anything which may put us in the 'no flights' situation (or Y back from HKG )

We're all in that catch 22, where if you don't bag flights at +355 they are gone but return legs are then a bit of a game of chance!
Have you looked at flying back from KUL, or flying into China?

PEK & CTU are only 50k and onward connections on Dragonair are easy enough to find as redemptions. 72hr visa free stopovers, to boot.
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Old Apr 10, 15, 8:56 am
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Originally Posted by g8kmh View Post
Called but the agent said this wasn't possible as SIN-LHR was in a different zone (though clearly the IATA rules would be OK). I thought from discussions on here that rule had gone?
Originally Posted by g8kmh View Post
Second agent - same response. Zone rule does apply, despite pushing hard on this.
LHR-HKG and LHR-SIN are different zones.

You can now book to and from different zones, eg LHR-HKG / SIN-HKG. The rule prohibiting that has gone.

But once you have booked LHR-HKG / HKG-LHR, you can't change the HKG-LHR to SIN-LHR, because you would be changing zones to do so. The rule that prohibits a change of zone when you change the ticket is (sadly) still very much alive and well.

If you're prepared to route through the cities suggested by Swiss Tony, that would be a good alternative strategy.
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Old Apr 10, 15, 12:38 pm
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Globaliser's summary is correct. While you can book an open jaw return booking (including a 241) with your return from a different zone, you cannot change a return booking (including a 241) to a different zone. You must cancel and rebook if you want to do this.
See:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...vel-zones.html
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Old Apr 10, 15, 1:24 pm
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Originally Posted by Globaliser View Post
LHR-HKG and LHR-SIN are different zones.

You can now book to and from different zones, eg LHR-HKG / SIN-HKG. The rule prohibiting that has gone.

But once you have booked LHR-HKG / HKG-LHR, you can't change the HKG-LHR to SIN-LHR, because you would be changing zones to do so. The rule that prohibits a change of zone when you change the ticket is (sadly) still very much alive and well.

If you're prepared to route through the cities suggested by Swiss Tony, that would be a good alternative strategy.
Excellent and correct summary of the rules. Risky cancel and rebook is the proper method... Alternatively Swiss Tony makes some valid suggestions.

By the way... With respect... Quoting IATA Rules will just make you look daft. The Zone rule is as per the T&C's of the 241.
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Old Apr 11, 15, 9:28 am
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Originally Posted by BLHD View Post
By the way... With respect... Quoting IATA Rules will just make you look daft. The Zone rule is as per the T&C's of the 241.
Except that AFAIK the default IATA rule on open jaws still applies as well: if you book LHR-AAA / BBB-LHR, the distance between AAA and BBB must be shorter than either of the flown sectors.

The applicability of that rule to a BA ticket is itself a bit of an anomaly, as IIRC BA's cash fare rules now seem to provide that the "surface sector" must not be the longest sector - ie that the requirement is that only one of the flown sectors needs to be longer than the surface sector. If anyone is seriously thinking of exploiting this, though, they need to be aware that in many cases, fares to different destinations are not combinable for other reasons even if this rule doesn't prohibit combining them. But that's getting a bit OT for this thread.
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Old Apr 21, 15, 11:25 am
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Question Any Way To Hold Seats In Existing Booking?

Deleted.

Last edited by Dakota; Apr 21, 15 at 3:14 pm
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Old Apr 21, 15, 5:15 pm
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TYO and PVG are both useful return points if you can't find anything ex HKG. Just remember to allow plenty of time especially with PVG, given the usual abysmal delays due to Chinese ATC.
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