Aug 7, 2015, 5:53 am
Last edit by: NWIFlyer
Hand Baggage Only fares (HBO) are available on domestic and EuroTraveller routes. They are offered at a lower price to those able to travel without checked baggage on point to point journeys only - they are not offered with connections, stopovers or with Club Europe. There isn't a special fare bucket for HBO, it's just a discount to all domestic/ET fare buckets, so even expensive flexible tickets offer HBO. The discount varies depending on route. For example, going HBO on LHR-DUB gives a Ł10 discount; Ł15 on LHR-PRG; and Ł20 on LHR-ATH. Online Travel Agents often book into these fares (including building stopovers) and are sometimes less than transparent about the baggage restrictions during the booking process. HBO fares do not earn OnBusiness credits.
BAEC status passengers from Bronze upwards get advance seat choice with these tickets.
How to get seat allocation if HBO and without status:
- Pay up. You can pay up at OLCI if you don't like the seat. Costs vary from Ł7 to Ł21 per sector as a minimum, with differential pricing employed for better seats (e.g. an exit row on LHR-DUB was Ł23 in June 2017). Usually, but not always, this invalidates the cost saving of HBO. You can also pay up in Manage My Booking (MMB) before OLCI.
- Cancel OLCI at the "confirm contact details" stage. Go in again and/or later and you may be offered another seat.
- Corporate travel bookings still offer seating to HBO in some cases. Sometimes this ability is temporary and doesn't stick.
- Ask check-in or the lounge agent for a better seat, so far this seems to be possible. Lounge agents won't be able to assist where they aren't part of the ground handling for BA (e.g. LBA).
- If your airport has a Self Service Check In (SSCI) machine AND you do not print your boarding pass (see below) then you can select another seat there provided check-in is still open, typically up to 46 minutes before take off. So if you are being allocated a rotten seat and you can see better seats available, you can take a risk and complete/commence check-in later.
SSCI machines are available at: LHR, LGW, LCY, MAN, EDI (on the general purpose airport machines, but only those by the BA check-in area), NCE, BRU, OSL, BLL, AAR, MUC, AMS.
They are NOT available at: ABZ, BHD, GLA, LBA, NCL, DUB, CDG, ORY, SVG, DUS, TXL, MAH, CFU, OLB, CTA, CAG, FDH, ANE, UIP, BIO, HER, SVQ, PMI, BRI.
You can also do this operation the night before at LGW and LHR, details here.
By "printing boarding pass" we mean not selecting that option at OLCI, or saving, emailing, faxing and/or downloading the boarding pass on the App.
HBO fares - Have to pay to select seat in advance [free for GCH/SCH/BCHs @ 14 Jun 17]
Mar 3, 2015, 9:19 am
#556
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Another revenue-raising exercise at the expense of customers that results in an aggregate paying more but getting the same or less than before.
BA really does seem to be intent upon cutting elite benefits in practice when they think it raises more revenue than it alienates. Expect more of these customer-unfriendly moves.
BA really does seem to be intent upon cutting elite benefits in practice when they think it raises more revenue than it alienates. Expect more of these customer-unfriendly moves.
Mar 3, 2015, 9:51 am
#558
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, AA EXP
Posts: 1,140
Much as I like Little Red and am sorry to see it go, you do realise you can't play that card for long? One Little Red service is finishing this month and the others (two?) at the end of September.
Mar 3, 2015, 9:54 am
#559
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Londinium
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 929
The market has also clearly established that SH lounge access is not. In it's a completely different service offered on a membership/PAYG basis. In Europe it's an award. I'd be curious to see how much revenue AA generates from one day lounge pass sales, but I'd suspect it's not massive.
Priority Pass remains a niche product because people have a hard time quantifying how much they'd pay for PAYG access (sometims you have two hours in the lounge, sometimes you have 20 minutes).
I'll put nothing past BA from this point on, but history shows they're hardly first movers in the market and won't go looking to shift paradigms on their own.
To be honest I think their lounge strategy is to make the SH ones as mediocre as possible to discourage their use. But because of that it's hard to then say "but you pay Ł30 extra we'll give you back that lounge access we just took away from you"
Mar 3, 2015, 9:56 am
#560
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,714
Not sure when voting took place but it looks like BAEC won the best FF program (Europe/Africa) at the FT Awards (no idea how or why - IMO it's a truly shocking program that only has traction because of the large captive audience BA has)
USA Today Article
It will be interesting to see how the voting goes next year following all these 'enhancements' you guys are having to swallow.
USA Today Article
It will be interesting to see how the voting goes next year following all these 'enhancements' you guys are having to swallow.
Mar 3, 2015, 10:00 am
#561
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Spalding
Programs: BA Bronze,Accor.Flightdiary.net/liamvad
Posts: 667
I was going to book LHR-EDI return with BA,in July,cost: Ł227:00 PLUS Ł10:00 credit card fee,PLUS Ł7:00 each person EACH way seat resevation,that adds another Ł28:00,Total= Ł265:00,just done the same booking via Virgin Little Red,TOTAL: 184:00 including credit card charge AND free seat reservations....it's a no brainer......just a shame they are finishing,why does BA charge Ł10:00 credit card fee,and Virgin Ł2:50p.???????
Mar 3, 2015, 10:13 am
#562
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London Stratford, E7
Programs: BAEC Gold! Thanks to FT
Posts: 3,369
That is now 3 people I work with (all BA Gold) that are planning to their change flight patterns as a result of this change. They are all heavy users of the HBO domestic fares with all of them flying 80+ domestic sectors per year with 2 also having occasion Europe and long haul flights on BA.
My company allows us to choose our own flights including carrier and time but will book the lowest fares for the flights chosen. They book HBO for day trips, overnight trips. Flexible fares are only allowed with suitable justification and "so I can choose my seat" will not work!
For info, I changed to Little Red for domestics and Virgin Atlantic for some of my long haul flights after the last round of devaluations/enhancements. I may now change my inter Europe flights to other carriers if I’m going to get stuck in a middle seat.
- One colleague is going to join me on Little Red flights for domestic (was firmly in the BA only camp).
- Another colleague has got Travel to agreed to pay for Easyjet Plus and he will now use them to fly to Gatwick (it is an easier commute for him compared to LHR and saves the company money)
- More worryingly for BA, a person from a partner company who earns Gold solely through flexible HBO domestic tickets at ~Ł600 return and very rarely changed flights. This must be a great earner for BA! He is going to stop flying BA if he cannot choose his seat or expense the fee to choose his seat. Although not expicitly stated, his travel policy appears to exclude paying for seat reservations but he is waiting to find out.
My company allows us to choose our own flights including carrier and time but will book the lowest fares for the flights chosen. They book HBO for day trips, overnight trips. Flexible fares are only allowed with suitable justification and "so I can choose my seat" will not work!
For info, I changed to Little Red for domestics and Virgin Atlantic for some of my long haul flights after the last round of devaluations/enhancements. I may now change my inter Europe flights to other carriers if I’m going to get stuck in a middle seat.
Mar 3, 2015, 10:15 am
#563
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LHR
Programs: BA GGL/GfL, A3 Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Gold
Posts: 320
HBO fares - Have to pay to select seat in advance [even for GCH/SCH/BCHs]
I wrote in this afternoon via the usual GGL email address, although I'm not sure if that was the correct route to take. I tried using the web form several times, but each time got an error message - is anyone else is having issues with that?
Mar 3, 2015, 10:30 am
#564
Join Date: Oct 2005
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,329
I saw this on Facebook:-
http://www.godsavethepoints.com/news/bahateseconomy
"British Airways is essentially begging you to fly EasyJet, Norwegian, Ryanair, Wow Air and other budget carriers around the world. If you fly coach, they've made it abundantly clear in the last two months, that they have no interest in you. The changes to seat assignment on hand bag only Europe fares are the final backhand in a series of slaps to the face. I mean, why else would they make an already cramped coach seat even more miserable? Why else would they take away your earning potential, your ability to upgrade for reasonable value and now, your ability to have a seat? British Airways hates economy passengers."
http://www.godsavethepoints.com/news/bahateseconomy
"British Airways is essentially begging you to fly EasyJet, Norwegian, Ryanair, Wow Air and other budget carriers around the world. If you fly coach, they've made it abundantly clear in the last two months, that they have no interest in you. The changes to seat assignment on hand bag only Europe fares are the final backhand in a series of slaps to the face. I mean, why else would they make an already cramped coach seat even more miserable? Why else would they take away your earning potential, your ability to upgrade for reasonable value and now, your ability to have a seat? British Airways hates economy passengers."
Mar 3, 2015, 10:41 am
#565
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: UK
Programs: BA GGL (but soon to lose the GL :-(), IHG Spire Amb, Hilton Dmnd (and pleb/pleb-plus in 1001 others)
Posts: 771
Mar 3, 2015, 10:42 am
#566
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Londinium
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 929
I saw this on Facebook:-
http://www.godsavethepoints.com/news/bahateseconomy
"British Airways is essentially begging you to fly EasyJet, Norwegian, Ryanair, Wow Air and other budget carriers around the world. If you fly coach, they've made it abundantly clear in the last two months, that they have no interest in you. The changes to seat assignment on hand bag only Europe fares are the final backhand in a series of slaps to the face. I mean, why else would they make an already cramped coach seat even more miserable? Why else would they take away your earning potential, your ability to upgrade for reasonable value and now, your ability to have a seat? British Airways hates economy passengers."
http://www.godsavethepoints.com/news/bahateseconomy
"British Airways is essentially begging you to fly EasyJet, Norwegian, Ryanair, Wow Air and other budget carriers around the world. If you fly coach, they've made it abundantly clear in the last two months, that they have no interest in you. The changes to seat assignment on hand bag only Europe fares are the final backhand in a series of slaps to the face. I mean, why else would they make an already cramped coach seat even more miserable? Why else would they take away your earning potential, your ability to upgrade for reasonable value and now, your ability to have a seat? British Airways hates economy passengers."
they don't seem the least bit interested in serving that market otherwise. You can tell in the significant difference in service and offer compared to LH. You can also tell by the fact that they opup to CE so infrequently.
I'm starting to think the reason they want Aer Lingus is that they want to use it replace BA SH alltogether and focus on the BA brand as a traditional LH flag carrier.
Mar 3, 2015, 10:47 am
#567
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
The fact that their shorthaul is primarily for feed is not a secret. It is the sole purpose of the LHR shorthaul fleet. BA's directors emphasise this every year at their investor briefing. If BA can make some extra money on shorthaul journeys, great, but that's a second priority.
BA has no need to buy an Irish airline to do that. They could ask their parent company to let them use VY's branding. Or they could start an el-cheapo operation (let's call it BA Connect—or GO!)—but unfortunately repeated experience has proven that BA is incapable of running a shorthaul low cost sidearm.
Mar 3, 2015, 10:47 am
#568
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LHR
Programs: BA GGL/GfL, A3 Gold, HH Diamond, IHG Gold
Posts: 320
I saw this on Facebook:-
http://www.godsavethepoints.com/news/bahateseconomy
"British Airways is essentially begging you to fly EasyJet, Norwegian, Ryanair, Wow Air and other budget carriers around the world. If you fly coach, they've made it abundantly clear in the last two months, that they have no interest in you. The changes to seat assignment on hand bag only Europe fares are the final backhand in a series of slaps to the face. I mean, why else would they make an already cramped coach seat even more miserable? Why else would they take away your earning potential, your ability to upgrade for reasonable value and now, your ability to have a seat? British Airways hates economy passengers."
http://www.godsavethepoints.com/news/bahateseconomy
"British Airways is essentially begging you to fly EasyJet, Norwegian, Ryanair, Wow Air and other budget carriers around the world. If you fly coach, they've made it abundantly clear in the last two months, that they have no interest in you. The changes to seat assignment on hand bag only Europe fares are the final backhand in a series of slaps to the face. I mean, why else would they make an already cramped coach seat even more miserable? Why else would they take away your earning potential, your ability to upgrade for reasonable value and now, your ability to have a seat? British Airways hates economy passengers."
Mar 3, 2015, 10:48 am
#569
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,667
As I posted earlier I think it is a quite brilliant revenue raising move by BA. Many people on here moan and say "right that is it, I'm moving to another program" ....but in reality most don't and never will.
The real bargain bucket cheapo seat hunters (normally once-a-year leisure pax) don't really give a hoot about seat selection anyway as the only thing that matters is price. So they will still go for HBO fares regardless of these changes.
The rest of us reasonably regular and status pax who value advance seat selection will simply move back up to the previous fares before HBO. So BA simply get back the lost revenue. This is what I will do....is no big deal TBH as it is not a great deal of money, nor is it my money as 95% of my flights on BA are business related. Those that are not are Avios ones.
Hopefully a number of us returning to paying non-HBO again will actually put their bags in the hold now anyway and this will free up cabin space too...that has to be a very good thing! I never understand this obsession with pax cramming everything into the cabin and at most airports there is rarely a wait of more than 10 minutes at the carousel. This is because at least 15-20 minutes have passed by the time you have got off the plane, walked a good few hundred metres, up and down a few escalators and queued at Immigration.
As a long suffering shareholder.....I say good move BA and lets hope it clears the cabin overheads a little bit too ^
The real bargain bucket cheapo seat hunters (normally once-a-year leisure pax) don't really give a hoot about seat selection anyway as the only thing that matters is price. So they will still go for HBO fares regardless of these changes.
The rest of us reasonably regular and status pax who value advance seat selection will simply move back up to the previous fares before HBO. So BA simply get back the lost revenue. This is what I will do....is no big deal TBH as it is not a great deal of money, nor is it my money as 95% of my flights on BA are business related. Those that are not are Avios ones.
Hopefully a number of us returning to paying non-HBO again will actually put their bags in the hold now anyway and this will free up cabin space too...that has to be a very good thing! I never understand this obsession with pax cramming everything into the cabin and at most airports there is rarely a wait of more than 10 minutes at the carousel. This is because at least 15-20 minutes have passed by the time you have got off the plane, walked a good few hundred metres, up and down a few escalators and queued at Immigration.
As a long suffering shareholder.....I say good move BA and lets hope it clears the cabin overheads a little bit too ^
Mar 3, 2015, 10:48 am
#570
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Glasgow / London
Programs: BA GGL
Posts: 3,457
Calchas I agree - I think all GGL / CCR who are not impressed with this change should write to the usual e-mail address. I had quite a fast response time (3 hours). If they get the message that this "enhancement" is a step too far perhaps a retraction for Gold + could happen?