Aug 7, 2015, 5:53 am
Last edit by: NWIFlyer
Hand Baggage Only fares (HBO) are available on domestic and EuroTraveller routes. They are offered at a lower price to those able to travel without checked baggage on point to point journeys only - they are not offered with connections, stopovers or with Club Europe. There isn't a special fare bucket for HBO, it's just a discount to all domestic/ET fare buckets, so even expensive flexible tickets offer HBO. The discount varies depending on route. For example, going HBO on LHR-DUB gives a Ł10 discount; Ł15 on LHR-PRG; and Ł20 on LHR-ATH. Online Travel Agents often book into these fares (including building stopovers) and are sometimes less than transparent about the baggage restrictions during the booking process. HBO fares do not earn OnBusiness credits.
BAEC status passengers from Bronze upwards get advance seat choice with these tickets.
How to get seat allocation if HBO and without status:
- Pay up. You can pay up at OLCI if you don't like the seat. Costs vary from Ł7 to Ł21 per sector as a minimum, with differential pricing employed for better seats (e.g. an exit row on LHR-DUB was Ł23 in June 2017). Usually, but not always, this invalidates the cost saving of HBO. You can also pay up in Manage My Booking (MMB) before OLCI.
- Cancel OLCI at the "confirm contact details" stage. Go in again and/or later and you may be offered another seat.
- Corporate travel bookings still offer seating to HBO in some cases. Sometimes this ability is temporary and doesn't stick.
- Ask check-in or the lounge agent for a better seat, so far this seems to be possible. Lounge agents won't be able to assist where they aren't part of the ground handling for BA (e.g. LBA).
- If your airport has a Self Service Check In (SSCI) machine AND you do not print your boarding pass (see below) then you can select another seat there provided check-in is still open, typically up to 46 minutes before take off. So if you are being allocated a rotten seat and you can see better seats available, you can take a risk and complete/commence check-in later.
SSCI machines are available at: LHR, LGW, LCY, MAN, EDI (on the general purpose airport machines, but only those by the BA check-in area), NCE, BRU, OSL, BLL, AAR, MUC, AMS.
They are NOT available at: ABZ, BHD, GLA, LBA, NCL, DUB, CDG, ORY, SVG, DUS, TXL, MAH, CFU, OLB, CTA, CAG, FDH, ANE, UIP, BIO, HER, SVQ, PMI, BRI.
You can also do this operation the night before at LGW and LHR, details here.
By "printing boarding pass" we mean not selecting that option at OLCI, or saving, emailing, faxing and/or downloading the boarding pass on the App.
HBO fares - Have to pay to select seat in advance [free for GCH/SCH/BCHs @ 14 Jun 17]
Mar 4, 2015, 2:10 pm
#751
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Then let us spell it out for you. Previously seat reservation for status passengers on an HBO fare was free. Now it is not, therefore you are forced to pay. This pisses a lot of people off.
Added to other benefits eroded in the last few weeks, this really, really pisses people off.
Added to other benefits eroded in the last few weeks, this really, really pisses people off.
However you are not forced to pay anything. They will still get you from A to B in the class you have paid for. I suspect the frustration and rancour is that other passengers (paying a higher fare) are now getting a look in on those once exclusive seats.
Mar 4, 2015, 2:12 pm
#752
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Programs: BA Gold, A3 Gold, FB Gold, Bonvoy Titanium / LTP, Accor Plat
Posts: 13,849
E.g. LON-LCA 23rd-30th March.
Can get a fare with bags for GBP 259.
Can get an HBO fare for GBP 747. Same flights.
One of these fares allows selection of seats...
Last edited by typical; Mar 4, 2015 at 2:23 pm
Mar 4, 2015, 2:39 pm
#753
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Not exactly a like for like comparison as the ticket conditions are completely different.
Mar 4, 2015, 2:40 pm
#754
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: near Heathrow
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL (OWE), SA LifePlat (*G), BD Gold to the end, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,907
I agree you need to pay for what was previously free. Yes. I also agree that pisses people off. Yes.
However you are not forced to pay anything. They will still get you from A to B in the class you have paid for. I suspect the frustration and rancour is that other passengers (paying a higher fare) are now getting a look in on those once exclusive seats.
However you are not forced to pay anything. They will still get you from A to B in the class you have paid for. I suspect the frustration and rancour is that other passengers (paying a higher fare) are now getting a look in on those once exclusive seats.
I have a choice. Rather than pay BA Ł15 each sector to choose a seat or buy the more expensive non-HBO fare (even though I only have hand luggage), I can fly with Easyjet. I've booked four short haul returns on Easyjet in the last two days and my savings over the BA fares have already paid for my Easyjet Plus Pass and I'm well on my way to recouping the cost of a Priority Pass for the lounge.
Loyalty at BA clearly means nothing. Ditto for me now.
Mar 4, 2015, 2:47 pm
#755
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,491
I don't care where others sit but for me to choose a seat near the front as a GGL it now costs me more despite the huge amount of money I personally (not an employer) pay BA every year.
I have a choice. Rather than pay BA Ł15 each sector to choose a seat or buy the more expensive non-HBO fare (even though I only have hand luggage), I can fly with Easyjet. I've booked four short haul returns on Easyjet in the last two days and my savings over the BA fares have already paid for my Easyjet Plus Pass and I'm well on my way to recouping the cost of a Priority Pass for the lounge.
Loyalty at BA clearly means nothing. Ditto for me now.
I have a choice. Rather than pay BA Ł15 each sector to choose a seat or buy the more expensive non-HBO fare (even though I only have hand luggage), I can fly with Easyjet. I've booked four short haul returns on Easyjet in the last two days and my savings over the BA fares have already paid for my Easyjet Plus Pass and I'm well on my way to recouping the cost of a Priority Pass for the lounge.
Loyalty at BA clearly means nothing. Ditto for me now.
Or if you prefer, it is about telling someone who is GGL and might accumulate much more than 5000 TPs every year that they will be treated significantly less well on BA on a paid ticket than they would be on AF, KL, LH or LX, which they might fly only once a year.
Mar 4, 2015, 2:49 pm
#756
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
I have a choice. Rather than pay BA Ł15 each sector to choose a seat or buy the more expensive non-HBO fare (even though I only have hand luggage), I can fly with Easyjet. I've booked four short haul returns on Easyjet in the last two days and my savings over the BA fares have already paid for my Easyjet Plus Pass and I'm well on my way to recouping the cost of a Priority Pass for the lounge.
Loyalty at BA clearly means nothing. Ditto for me now.
Loyalty at BA clearly means nothing. Ditto for me now.
Mar 4, 2015, 2:51 pm
#757
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: not far from MUC
Posts: 6,620
* but not that cheap
Mar 4, 2015, 2:52 pm
#758
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Programs: BA Gold, A3 Gold, FB Gold, Bonvoy Titanium / LTP, Accor Plat
Posts: 13,849
Indeed, I think the fact that they've removed seat selection from EVERY HBO fare, up to and including the full Y HBO fare, is indeed one of the most egregious aspects of this policy change.
Mar 4, 2015, 3:00 pm
#759
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
It's a reasonable like-for-like comparison if one is not interested in flexibility but rather the closure of the availability lower buckets compels one to buy a B or H fare.
Mar 4, 2015, 3:01 pm
#760
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
You're the one that made the "cheaper fare" point, and you were wrong - there are plenty of ways someone on an HBO fare could be paying more than a fellow passenger.
Indeed, I think the fact that they've removed seat selection from EVERY HBO fare, up to and including the full Y HBO fare, is indeed one of the most egregious aspects of this policy change.
Indeed, I think the fact that they've removed seat selection from EVERY HBO fare, up to and including the full Y HBO fare, is indeed one of the most egregious aspects of this policy change.
Mar 4, 2015, 3:04 pm
#761
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
And in any case the figures quoted above (259 v 747) aren't the lowest fare buckets available, they are the lowest bag fare v the highest HBO fare. In reality who would you say would be making that direct choice?
Mar 4, 2015, 3:08 pm
#762
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,207
You're the one that made the "cheaper fare" point, and you were wrong - there are plenty of ways someone on an HBO fare could be paying more than a fellow passenger.
Indeed, I think the fact that they've removed seat selection from EVERY HBO fare, up to and including the full Y HBO fare, is indeed one of the most egregious aspects of this policy change.
Indeed, I think the fact that they've removed seat selection from EVERY HBO fare, up to and including the full Y HBO fare, is indeed one of the most egregious aspects of this policy change.
It is so easy to fall into the trap thinking that all HBO fares are cheap - its a myth but excusable given the line peddled by BA’s PR machine.
The fact is with HBO fares, BA simply offers a nominal fixed discount on the fare in exchange for not checking in luggage.
From next month BA will penalise customers travelling on fully flex HBO fares who are currently entitled to a free seat assignment from the time of booking;
From next month BA will penalise customers travelling on semi flex HBO fares who are currently entitled to a free seat assignment at T minus 48 hours;
From next month BA will penalise Bronze card holders travelling on HBO fares who are currently entitled to a free seat assignment at T minus 7 days;
From next month BA will penalise Silver and Gold card holders travelling on HBO fares who are currently entitled to a free seat assignment from the time of booking;
Way to piss off your valuable customers BA.
Mar 4, 2015, 3:09 pm
#763
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Programs: BA Gold, A3 Gold, FB Gold, Bonvoy Titanium / LTP, Accor Plat
Posts: 13,849
Like for like for an individual passenger in a specific fare bucket yes, but you chose to bring up the comparison with other passengers - who may have booked, for example, when lower fare buckets were available.
As a reminder, you said:
The frustration and rancour is more likely that other passengers (paying a lower fare) are now getting a look in on those once exclusive seats. @:-)
As a reminder, you said:
The frustration and rancour is more likely that other passengers (paying a lower fare) are now getting a look in on those once exclusive seats. @:-)
Mar 4, 2015, 3:11 pm
#764
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
To argue a very narrow point again, are we potentially no worse off than we were two years ago, however?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...nly-fares.html
Prior to that, there were no HBOs. The inclusions of the then 'lowest' fare were, insofar as I can recall, the same as the now 'lowest non-HBO' fare, including for status-holders.
If we can inflation- and competition-adjust to prove that the 'lowest non-HBO fare' now is higher than the then 'lowest fare', then we'd still potentially be arguing a different point.
To be clear, this is not to approve of the change now being discussed, but if there's any chance of effecting positive change then I think that care must be taking in avoiding potentially specious and/or conflatory positions.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...nly-fares.html
Prior to that, there were no HBOs. The inclusions of the then 'lowest' fare were, insofar as I can recall, the same as the now 'lowest non-HBO' fare, including for status-holders.
If we can inflation- and competition-adjust to prove that the 'lowest non-HBO fare' now is higher than the then 'lowest fare', then we'd still potentially be arguing a different point.
To be clear, this is not to approve of the change now being discussed, but if there's any chance of effecting positive change then I think that care must be taking in avoiding potentially specious and/or conflatory positions.
Customers with BA/OW elite status on BA who recognize how this move makes them worse off don't need to rely upon, nor avoid, any argument -- "potentially specious and/or conflatory positions" or not -- to know that this move undermines the value gotten out of BA/OW loyalty program participation.
Claiming that there are BA smoke and mirrors -- as your post indicates -- availlable that may obfuscate matters doesn't change the fact that BA customers are facing benefit losses and often paying as much or more than before for the flights.
The move to and expansion of HBO fares seems to be part of BA's strategic game to: set things up to eliminate not only included checked baggage service for short-haul customers but also to eliminate free seat selection service; and then substitute in the same services contingent upon post-purchase fee payments that boost BA's revenue above and beyond what it was before.
Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 4, 2015 at 6:15 pm
Mar 4, 2015, 3:20 pm
#765
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: scotland/EDI
Programs: BAEC , M&M , VIRGIN FC , FLYING BLUE
Posts: 1,438
personally I don't think this has got anything to do with money for most people complaining----its actually an over inflated ego
I will actually be quite glad if some of my fellow Gs and higher status GGLs who think they own the lounges and think they have the god given right to row 1 decide to jump ship to other carriers
I will actually be quite glad if some of my fellow Gs and higher status GGLs who think they own the lounges and think they have the god given right to row 1 decide to jump ship to other carriers
