openfly

So they take away my Gold benefit of selecting a seat at time of booking on the HBO fare, but on an Avios fare...the cheapest of all...I can still book a seat!

Still as long as the BA idiot who came up with this one gets their bonus, who cares about premiums!

florida2000

It's not the same! I produce computer software and have full and lite versions. If I started removing features from the lite version after customers had been using these for past few years, I'd have real problems.

FrancisA

BA always set out that HBO fares were not the standard product. They seem to have misjudged their popularity with the consequence that they now have real issues with excessive hand luggage. That also has a cost.

As a result they are addressing that issue.

If HBOs were intended to appeal to ultra price sensitive LCC-type customers, they should have pitched it more at that market with fewer frills even for status passengers. No seat selection and no lounge access from the start might have been prudent.

As it is, frequent business fliers have been using HBOs as their default fare and I doubt that that is financially viable to BA. In light of experience BA have acted to make HBO fares more of a lite product - hardly surprising given that they are a commercial organisation.

It's OK saying offering generous concessions to status passengers breeds loyalty, but those that have said that have also said that they'll fly elsewhere every time BA make a change that they don't like. Hardly unerring loyalty!

FrancisA

Really? It is not the same?

I have seen many programs where the lite version has started out fairly unrestricted, but over the years has acquired greater restrictions, adverts, nag-screens, time limits on use or reduced functionality.

Often these changes happen where the product is popular and too many are only using the lite version.

Sounds like the situation here to me.

orbitmic

HBO fares are the standard fare advertised in the GDS and available when booking through any travel agent.

paulwuk

The list is aimed at people with a 2006 view of ryanair, who have read horros of the £300 checkin etc.

Will families be seated together automatically? If so this is a genuine improvement for the majority of BA flyers

As for frequent flyers complaining, you have two choices
1) BA the no frills airline. No frequent flyer benefits like bags, seats, priority boarding, miles, lounges, food and drink, just like ryanair, or Virgin trains. Or the 47 bus to bromsgrove.

2) BA the full service airline. Lounge access if you want it, seat assignment if you want it, baggage if you want it, food and drink if you want it.

If you're a cheapskate and want to save a couple of quid on the no frills fare, that's fine. Just don't complain you don't get the frills. You're saving by unbundling everything. At leat Ba are giving you a choice of a bundle.

Now practical solutions. Does FRA, MUC and AMS allow securityless Transfers from the UK?

pianotraveller

As I understand it, the discount on the fare for not checking in a bag is roughly equivalent to the saving BA makes on not having to handle your bag - what's financially unviable about that? And what difference would it make to financial viability if 1% or 90% of passengers bought HBO? A £20 discount on full Y doesn't strike me as financially unviable.

shorthauldad

Well, if BA wants status pax travelling s/h in ET with only hand baggage to stop buying HBO fares, perhaps our response should be always to check in a cardboard box containing 32kg of gravel. Two for GCHs!

No need to collect at the other end, either

orbitmic

I'm the one not really following you here. What would be the logic of comparing the second lowest fare of one airline to the lowest fare of the others? Is the fact that they "name" it standard what justifies this?

Let's be clear. If BA ran the same campaign today, they would be found to be guilty of false advertising without question. If they wanted to avoid that they would need a very big disclaimer saying "this is only valid on our "standard" fares and not on our "Hand Baggage Only" fares regardless of reservation class or fare and regardless of frequent flyer status".

As for your second question, I'm not entirely sure I am following it either. If it were the KL version, you would get two free checked bags anyway (and one with AF even on HBO fares). If BA insisted on taking away the free additional bag of status customers on short and medium haul flights you would just pay for one bag on MMB which would cost you the same £10 as today.

I also think that you are missing the main points that most of us are making here:

1) This is not a "normal" enhancement made to save costs. This enhancement makes the value of Gold and Silver cards lower without saving any money whatsoever for BA;

2) This is not an isolated change. You can't pretend that those of us making a fuss about it are operating in a vacuum where no other worsening of Executive Club advantages have occurred in recent months. It is one thing to have a day of rain, you don't expect to say that you hate the weather just because of it. When it rains every day for a couple of weeks, you do, regardless of the rain is strong or weak on a particular day.

Finally I find your argument that BA are worsening HBO fares mostly for status passengers because there is - effectively - too much luggage congestion on board interesting but unconvincing.

First of all, if it were the case, it would be one of the most idiotic corporate strategies in living memory: a bit like your going to the doctor, him/her telling you that there is a problem with your hearing, and when you ask whether you will get an ear operation being told that no, they will operate your leg instead.

If BA wanted to react to too hand luggage over-filling, the obvious solutions would be 1) enforcing hand luggage checks at airports, 2) limiting the number of HBO fares sold on a give flight directly OR 3) limiting HBO to some specific fare classes which would implicitly mean that they would be capacity controlled or even 4) say that you will actually increase status benefits by introducing a free piece of checked luggage for status passengers on HBO fares.

All those things would directly tackle what you see as a problem much better than BA's further worsening of status benefits (as well as worsening of flying experience for non-status passengers) which effectively do not change anything to how many HBO passengers are likely to be in the flight or to the amount of luggage that goes into the overheads.

pianotraveller

Next time I travel non-HBO, I'm going to check in a piano. Just to get my £20's worth. ;-)

dingobingo

Adding the switch from the spacious (first 12 rows) 737s to refurbed A320s, the devaluation of silver, which I just achieved, and now the removal of my favourite perk - being able to select a seat for free, there is now no reason what so ever to fly to Gatwick when my ongoing destination is Nottingham. Many have told me it's ridiculous to fly to LGW from AGP but hey, I liked the BA brand, the avios and the perks. I'll be switching to Easy Jet now into Luton. Bye BA! And I don't even understand the reason for this last change...

CrazyJ82

As with the broader changes of a few weeks ago, they keep misunderstanding the way many of their business travelers make decisions. My corporate booking tool allows me to choose based on schedule and carrier -- but not on fare. So if BA's goal is to encourage me to upfare business travel, I'm sorry but that ain't gonna happen. Rather than encouraging me to spend more on BA tickets, which I can't choose to do, they're encouraging me to look at other carriers entirely, which I can do if the BA fare on offer won't give me basic elite benefits, leaving me indifferent to them versus other options.

This change doesn't directly affect me since my company seems to assume we'll need to check a bag and so, thus far, hasn't been returning HBO fares in searches. But if other people are getting caught out by this in their corporate bookings, surely it represents a notable failure by BA to understand how their customers consume their product.

I should add that the dilution of elite benefits that are available when I'm traveling for leisure on an HBO will affect my work travel decisions insofar as it weakens the incentive to choose BA when the cost of BA versus another option is roughly equal but the BA timings or such are slightly less convenient.

flyerpower

British Airways have announced they are making a profit again. Well done BA.

So they have decided to repay their most loyal customers, Executive Club members, who helped them return to profit, by taking away pretty much the only meaningful advantage of being Bronze, to book seats in advance, for free, on Hand Baggage Only flights. Now they are going to charge us. What was the point exactly? To gain a few extra pounds? All they've done is really annoy us all and questions why we would bother flying with them instead of the other low cost companies. I now cannot see any real advantage of being Bronze.

They claim that their HBO fares are really low, but they are not that great. So really, we are better off going with easyJet on short haul as they are so much cheaper. What a stupid, short sighted, money grabbing thing it was to do. They guy who decided this should be demoted!

TGflyergirl

Actually, my neighbour, whom I'd consider errant and somewhat devious - suggested this:

Check in something worthless (like a pile of old newspapers) every time on a non-HBO and just walk out the airport on arrival, leaving it behind...

I'd have to admit the thought crossed my mind too....

FlyerTalker688786

Exactly!^^^^That is exactly what BA should have done if they are to tackle the over flowing of cabin luggage problem. But they are not doing that because they are offering free checked bag upon boarding gate as a solution (you see this very often now in T5 SH departure, BA makes announcement to a full flight to ask for volunteers to check their large items for free). So it backs to the other hypothesis, BA wants revenue from its loyal customers. Simple.