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The 2015 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004

The 2015 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004

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Old May 2, 15, 5:40 pm
  #541  
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Originally Posted by scottishpoet View Post
Is that due to distance? How can I confirm if its <1500km or not?
It wasn't a cancellation , only a delay. For just a delay I believe that there is a min of 3 hours before anything is due even on short distances
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Old May 3, 15, 2:23 am
  #542  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
It wasn't a cancellation , only a delay. For just a delay I believe that there is a min of 3 hours before anything is due even on short distances
From page 1 To simplify a complex area, delays greater than 2 to 4 hours can result in compensation of between 125 and 600 per person (depending on flight category)'
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Old May 3, 15, 1:11 pm
  #543  
 
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Had a fun turnaround in Dublin today, with BA 829 delayed quite a bit due to faulty part. Was rebooked on 823 to come home, and now this plane has an issue. I was a little unsure from the wiki about whether because I was rebooked on another flight, but that flight is still due to return me to London now more than 4 hours than originally planned, if I can still apply for the full 250 compensation?

Cheers from the tarmac!
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Old May 3, 15, 1:33 pm
  #544  
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Originally Posted by knoppster View Post
Had a fun turnaround in Dublin today, with BA 829 delayed quite a bit due to faulty part. Was rebooked on 823 to come home, and now this plane has an issue. I was a little unsure from the wiki about whether because I was rebooked on another flight, but that flight is still due to return me to London now more than 4 hours than originally planned, if I can still apply for the full 250 compensation?

Cheers from the tarmac!
I do not think so. I believe each delay is separate and it will require the rebooked flight to be 4 hours delayed
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Old May 3, 15, 6:10 pm
  #545  
 
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Originally Posted by scottishpoet View Post
From page 1 To simplify a complex area, delays greater than 2 to 4 hours can result in compensation of between €125 and €600 per person (depending on flight category)'
KRK-GLA has an official distance of 1740km which puts your routing into a type 2 flight. A flight within the EU of greater than 1500 km in distance has to be delayed at least 3hrs before a delay is payable.

KRK-LHR has an official distance of 1430km which just makes it eligible as a type 1 flight. A flight within the EU of less than 1500 km has to be delayed at least 2hrs before a delay is payable.

Neither those passengers terminating at LHR on a point to point ticket or your delay onto GLA as a transiting passenger on the same ticket are eligible under the rule for the delay you have advised about.

FYI just type "air mileage calculator" into any search engine and you can determine the official distance between any two points. These will be the distances airlines typically use to determine eligibility for payment when passenger claims are made.
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Old May 3, 15, 6:30 pm
  #546  
 
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Originally Posted by nufnuf77 View Post
I have a quick question for the clever people here.
I had two flights on the same PNR within EU connecting in London. First flight (from VIE) early in the morning arriving at LHR at 9am and it was on time.
Then I had a day in London and departed from LGW for GLA in the evening. This flight arrived with 151 minutes of delay. I thought I would claim 250E for the 'above 2 hours delay on a flight <1500km'. Can I do this, or does the whole ticket have to be taken into account (thus pushing the distance >1500km VIE-GLA)?
I don't think so. As you were presumably on a thru ticket, the way the journey is calculated is essentially Vienna - Glasgow. You chose the lengthy stopover as the passenger (presumably to make use of a day in London). When coming to calculate distances, the airline will work this on a VIE-GLA basis which puts you in excess of 1500km and requires a minimum delay of 3hrs in order to qualify for eligibility. At 151mins delay, this puts you 29mins short of qualifying.

If your reservation was on 2 separate bookings (ie VIE/LHR on one booking and LGW/GLA the other) the second booking would be eligible as you rightly point out this sector is under 1500km and requires a minimum delay of 2hrs in order to be deemed eligible. I'm guessing you opted for one reservation to either reduce the amount of tax payable or for the free domestic sector under RFS?
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Old May 3, 15, 6:56 pm
  #547  
 
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Originally Posted by Cymru Fach View Post

Basically our flight BA115 Heathrow to JFK scheduled for departure at 16:10 on the 14th March 2015 was cancelled at circa 3am on the day of scheduled travel. When I read the text message alerting me of this in the morning I rang the helpline number given, I was told very specifically by the representative that it was due to "operational" reasons. I asked him several times what exactly this meant, and he couldn't provide any kind of sensible or useful answer, only make alternative flight arrangements for us (we flew the next day and landed in JFK 15 hours and 22 minutes later than scheduled).

"Your claim’s been refused because BA0115 on 14 March 2015 was cancelled because of aircraft damage which wasn’t caused by us, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, I’m afraid we’re not liable for a compensation payment in this situation."

According to the EC261 provision:

The airline is also required to pay cash compensation as described below, unless one of the following conditions applies:
the airline notifies the passengers less than one week prior to departure, and re-routes passengers so that they can: depart no more than one hour earlier than scheduled, and
arrive no more than two hours later than scheduled

the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided by any reasonable measure.


Given that British Airways operate at least 7 flights to JFK each an every day and that Heathrow is their primary operating base, there would be a degree of thinking that

a) sourcing an alternative aircraft for this flight sector (BA115/14MAR) would not be out of the question or indeed deemed extraordinary and
b) there would be sufficient opportunity to re-protect you and your travelling party on to an earlier/later departure that would not result in a delayed arrival of +15hrs.

You are also entitled to refreshments, time appropriate meals and accommodation at the cost of the airline when enforcing such delays upon you at short notice so please don't allow the airline to make you feel they are doing you any sort of favour by allowing you these things. They are your basic right in this situation.

Damage limitation (on their wallet) is what is of primary concern to the airline now and they are not breaking the law by trying to convince you to settle with what is essentially half of what you're (in my mind) eligible to.
I would definitely follow the advice that others have given before, filing a time ultimatum in writing on which the airline should respond favourably before filing a MCOL for the appropriate amount if they still fail to see sense.

Good luck!

Last edited by 1Aturnleft; May 3, 15 at 7:02 pm
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Old May 4, 15, 6:16 am
  #548  
 
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Help needed on this complex 2 vs 3hr delay situation.

I flew MAN-LHR-NCE which great circle mapper shows as 797 miles/1283KM, which by my reading makes it a a type 1 flight.

However, I've had the following back from CS...

I’ve checked the details of your flight and can confirm your flight BA0354 on 31 March 2015 was delayed for 121 minutes. I’ve included the details below for your reference.

Flight BA0354 from London Heathrow to Nice.
Scheduled departure date and time: 31 March 2015 13:40 GMT
Actual departure date and time: 31 March 2015 15:37 GMT
Scheduled arrival date and time: 31 March 2015 15:40 GMT
Actual arrival date and time: 31 March 2015 17:41 GMT
Total delay: 121 minutes

Since your flight wasn’t delayed in arriving by three hours or more, your claim for compensation under EU Regulation 261/2004 has been refused.
Is this right?
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Old May 5, 15, 12:46 pm
  #549  
 
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NYC Small Claims Court Address of Service

My flight from LHR to JFK was cancelled 1 day prior to departure without explanation. I was put on a replacement that landed more than 4 hours after the original was scheduled to land. I applied for EC 261/2004 compensation but was denied with the explanation that I was notified over 14 days in advance of the change in flight. I wasn't. I was advised to appeal to C.A.A. if I wasn't happy.

Being US based, I will sue in Small Claims Court, NYC. I have an address of:

British Airways PLC, 111 8th Avenue, NY, NY 10011

I'd appreciate confirmation that this address is valid.

Many thanks!
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Old May 5, 15, 12:53 pm
  #550  
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Originally Posted by lafayette74 View Post
My flight from LHR to JFK was cancelled 1 day prior to departure without explanation. I was put on a replacement that landed more than 4 hours after the original was scheduled to land. I applied for EC 261/2004 compensation but was denied with the explanation that I was notified over 14 days in advance of the change in flight. I wasn't. I was advised to appeal to C.A.A. if I wasn't happy.

Being US based, I will sue in Small Claims Court, NYC. I have an address of:

British Airways PLC, 111 8th Avenue, NY, NY 10011

I'd appreciate confirmation that this address is valid.

Many thanks!
I would look carefully before embarking on that approach and check whether there has been any change in ability to do so; I believe that it was ruled that the US court cannot apply EU laws and so cannot be claimed through a US court - I would check whether any succesful appeal against that has occurred

If it hasn't, I would suggest using one of the myriad of 3rd party companies to handle it
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Old May 5, 15, 12:54 pm
  #551  
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Originally Posted by andersoi View Post
Help needed on this complex 2 vs 3hr delay situation.

I flew MAN-LHR-NCE which great circle mapper shows as 797 miles/1283KM, which by my reading makes it a a type 1 flight.

However, I've had the following back from CS...



Is this right?
I believe so - for delays ( as opposed to cancellations ) , I believe that the minimum delay time is 3 hours
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Old May 5, 15, 1:01 pm
  #552  
 
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Thanks for your most timely response, Dave.

While US based Small Claims Court can't enforce an EU claim, it still seems to me I can nonetheless file the suit since I believe BA does owe me the money based on the regulations they operate under. Maybe I'll win, maybe I'll lose or maybe BA will change their mind and settle as sending their lawyer will cost them more than paying me what I'm owed?
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Old May 5, 15, 1:22 pm
  #553  
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Originally Posted by lafayette74 View Post
Thanks for your most timely response, Dave.

While US based Small Claims Court can't enforce an EU claim, it still seems to me I can nonetheless file the suit since I believe BA does owe me the money based on the regulations they operate under. Maybe I'll win, maybe I'll lose or maybe BA will change their mind and settle as sending their lawyer will cost them more than paying me what I'm owed?

Before embarking on legal action at least contact BA again in writing reaffirming your points and including any evidence about when you were informed - email / text message etc etc If they say they gave you the correct notice then they need to prove it.

It's perfectly possible that the person dealign with it made a genuine mistake in the dates etc
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Old May 5, 15, 1:42 pm
  #554  
 
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Thanks UKtravelbear but 2 CS persons blew me off with the same excuse: "The flight change was made more than 14 days prior to the travel day."

I have an email from the travel agency confirming the original flight numbers just one day before the flight and BA has provided nothing in writing to the contrary besides their unsupported statement to that effect.

BTW, just to give your suggestion a chance, I called BA customer service and their brief hours now end at 3:00 PM EDT! Not that you could get through to a human previously but now it is just laughable.

No, I'll sue and see how that plays out and report back. Here is an article from the Washington Post on June 27, 2013 titled, "Small Claims Court: A better bet for stiffed airline travelers?" http://goo.gl/K0a3i2
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Old May 5, 15, 2:40 pm
  #555  
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Sun Air HAM-LCY (again...)

my claim to Sun Air:

"[...]my flight BA8205 HAM-LCY on xxAPR15 with you, dept. HAM 07:50 arr LCY 08:35, booked xxFEB15.

I was advised of its cancellation ten days before departure, on xxMAR15 (cancellation email attached).

I was automatically rebooked onto BA0965 arriving into LHR at 11:25. LHR to LCY is some distance, and with the longer walks and waiting times at LHR I eventually arrived to LCY at 13:15.

BA advised me that for any claim I’d need to contact you directly.

Given this was a cancellation that falls under EU261 regulation, please pay me the according compensation for this cancellation for me to cover my incurred costs.

My bank details are
[...]
"


Response Sun Air:

"SUN-AIR cancelled the flight on ZZth March 2015, and we can see in your booking that you have received a sms at ZZth March at 0843 regarding the cancelled flight. This means that you have received information more than 14 days before the departure on xxApril 2015. In this case we are not obligated to pay out compensation according to EU regulation."

My response:

"I have double checked my emails and telephone, I have not received any SMS, and the first email about this cancellation reached me on Tue xx/03/2015 10:59am. I attach this for your reference. This what I continue to believe first contact made was within the critical 14day window.

If you can reconfirm what time you believe to have informed me of this cancellation, what number you sent this SMS to, and what your sender number is, I’d be happy to once again check my mobile phone records."


They were unable to confirm what number the SMS was sent from (??!), but confirmed the mobile number (which was correct), and exact time. However, no such SMS was ever received by me, and I do find it dubious that they unable to provide the number such SMS would be sent from...

"Thanks for supplying the details. The number is correct. To avoid a mistake on my side I double checked not only my inbox but also my phone’s log, no text message was received (I hardly receive any texts on that phone, not a single one received between xx March and xx March).

The email received on xx March with the subject “British Airways Flight Cancellation PNRPNR”, message body text “We regret to inform you that the following flight has been cancelled:” would strongly suggest that this in fact was the first communication about the flight cancellation.

I therefore uphold my claim in this instance, details for the EU261 compensation as below."


No response since (nearly 14 days, that's long in Sun Air world).

Any advice on how to take this further would be most appreciated, not happy they are trying to steal themselves out of this by claiming text messages were sent from an unknown number when none were received.

much appreciated!
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