Crossrail and LHR T5

Old Jul 4, 17, 3:45 pm
  #61  
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
So I guess this will mean with Oyster card readers installed at the HEX platforms, in order to use the HEX to transfer between termainls you would need an oyster or contactless card? Atm you do for the tube but for those with neither you can use the HEX.
My guess is they'll not add barriers like the tube or GEX, so you'll be able to go between T2/3 and T5 without touching in/out but if you decide to do so then it'll just not charge you if going between terminals. I can't see HEX wanting barriers as they sell quite a few on the train at the on-board premium.
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Old Jul 5, 17, 1:55 pm
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Could we even envisage an eventual end to the current HEX operation ?

Given that the Elizabeth Line will serve T5 now the time saving on HEX is going to be minimal to most places (except perhaps Paddington itself and Paddington connections by taxi) even if they become more competitive on price.

Is anyone in the city really going to get on a T5-bound Elizabeth Line train at Liverpool St or Farringdon just to get off again at Paddington low level to go up to the HEX just to save a few minutes over staying on the slightly slower Elizabeth Line train?

Also the HEX trains take up valuable paths on the fast lines out of Paddington that Network Rail may eventually want to give to the Great Western Franchise holder ?

Even if it survives the initial competition from the Elizabeth line, it would be interesting to see if it survives into the long term future, beyond say the current trains being life expired.
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Old Jul 5, 17, 2:04 pm
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Originally Posted by Scillybear View Post
Could we even envisage an eventual end to the current HEX operation ?

Given that the Elizabeth Line will serve T5 now the time saving on HEX is going to be minimal to most places (except perhaps Paddington itself and Paddington connections by taxi) even if they become more competitive on price.

Is anyone in the city really going to get on a T5-bound Elizabeth Line train at Liverpool St or Farringdon just to get off again at Paddington low level to go up to the HEX just to save a few minutes over staying on the slightly slower Elizabeth Line train?

Also the HEX trains take up valuable paths on the fast lines out of Paddington that Network Rail may eventually want to give to the Great Western Franchise holder ?

Even if it survives the initial competition from the Elizabeth line, it would be interesting to see if it survives into the long term future, beyond say the current trains being life expired.
Agreed. I really can't see anyone paying extra for the HEX other than those in close vicinity of Paddington.
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Old Jul 5, 17, 2:04 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Scillybear View Post
Could we even envisage an eventual end to the current HEX operation ?

Given that the Elizabeth Line will serve T5 now the time saving on HEX is going to be minimal to most places (except perhaps Paddington itself and Paddington connections by taxi) even if they become more competitive on price.

Is anyone in the city really going to get on a T5-bound Elizabeth Line train at Liverpool St or Farringdon just to get off again at Paddington low level to go up to the HEX just to save a few minutes over staying on the slightly slower Elizabeth Line train?

Also the HEX trains take up valuable paths on the fast lines out of Paddington that Network Rail may eventually want to give to the Great Western Franchise holder ?

Even if it survives the initial competition from the Elizabeth line, it would be interesting to see if it survives into the long term future, beyond say the current trains being life expired.
I agree.

Presumably this is why HAH was in litigation in an attempt to charge a high access fee for crossrail.
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Old Jul 5, 17, 2:32 pm
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The HEX is unlikely to survive beyond the track access agreement between HAH and Network Rail expires. But still: go to JFK/EWR/ORD/EZE/GRU/GIG/SIN and you realise just how good HEX is (until you go to FRA/ZRH and realise what would happen if they routed the Great Western line 500 years south and had a proper longhaul train station, but I digress)
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Old Jul 5, 17, 2:38 pm
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Originally Posted by alexwuk View Post
But still: go to JFK/EWR/ORD/EZE/GRU/GIG/SIN and you realise just how good HEX is
I don't think anyone disputes that the HEX is a good service. The question is whether it's value for money. Even before Crossrail, the answer for most people is no.
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Old Jul 5, 17, 3:43 pm
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Originally Posted by alexwuk View Post
The HEX is unlikely to survive beyond the track access agreement between HAH and Network Rail expires. But still: go to JFK/EWR/ORD/EZE/GRU/GIG/SIN and you realise just how good HEX is (until you go to FRA/ZRH and realise what would happen if they routed the Great Western line 500 years south and had a proper longhaul train station, but I digress)
When does the track access agreement expire ?

I think leaving the Elizabeth Line to access Heathrow by itself would keep London on the same level as FRA and most German cities linked to their airports by S-bahn. (most of which have multiple stations to alight at in at the central zone)

In addition to this, connecting LHR into the wider long distance network (as at FRA) would certainly be a good thing - although the GWR link would be limited to linking to the South west and possibly the line up to Birmingham via Oxford. In that sense FRA is luckier being more at the centre of the German ICE network.

The HEX has always been a bit of a strange beast to me - a bit OTT. It offers the sort of longer distance airport express train experience (as at NRT or ICN) over a relatively short distance and doesn't penetrate the central zone.
After crossrail is complete - it makes little sense at all.
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Old Jul 5, 17, 4:02 pm
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Originally Posted by Scillybear View Post
In addition to this, connecting LHR into the wider long distance network (as at FRA) would certainly be a good thing - although the GWR link would be limited to linking to the South west and possibly the line up to Birmingham via Oxford. In that sense FRA is luckier being more at the centre of the German ICE network.
The points between the Heathrow spur and the main line point connect only to/from London, it isn't possible to go from the Reading direction down to Heathrow unless you go to London first and then back out again. I don't know if they plan to install track to remedy that?

The HEX has always been a bit of a strange beast to me - a bit OTT.
This is not the off topic part of the thread.
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Old Jul 5, 17, 4:20 pm
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Originally Posted by Calchas View Post
The points between the Heathrow spur and the main line point connect only to/from London, it isn't possible to go from the Reading direction down to Heathrow unless you go to London first and then back out again. I don't know if they plan to install track to remedy that?
That is why there are extra platforms at T5. Network Rail was running a consultation on the track extension last year.
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Old Jul 5, 17, 4:28 pm
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Originally Posted by Physci View Post
That is why there are extra platforms at T5. Network Rail was running a consultation on the track extension last year.
Oh I must have missed that. ^
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Old Jul 5, 17, 4:32 pm
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Originally Posted by Calchas View Post
Oh I must have missed that. ^
See this post http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28518634-post49.html
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Old Jul 5, 17, 4:46 pm
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Originally Posted by Physci View Post
This seems like a lot of work, a 5.5 km tunnel?

Can they not just install a west-facing link [sorry don't know the terminology] at Airport Junction where the present Heathrow spur joins mainline?
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Old Jul 5, 17, 4:53 pm
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Eighteen off topic posts have been removed so that we can bring this thread back on topic.

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Old Jul 5, 17, 4:55 pm
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Originally Posted by Calchas View Post
This seems like a lot of work, a 5.5 km tunnel?

Can they not just install a west-facing link [sorry don't know the terminology] at Airport Junction where the present Heathrow spur joins mainline?
Probably doable but I imagine you'd have have issues with the radii of the curves required and the resulting limited speeds thereby reducing the number of paths available on the GWML due to the need to accelerate back up to linespeed vs through trains already doing 125 (as the linespeed increases up to that around Southall).
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Old Jul 5, 17, 4:58 pm
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Will HEX and Crossrail share platforms at T2/3? With 2 T5 trains per hour that would be 1 from each of the two eastern routes... Clearly better to switch at LHR if possible, given 6 trains per hour to T5 from there

(4 gaps of 7.5 mins and 2 of 15 mins at that stop?)
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