Crossrail and LHR T5

Old Jul 4, 17, 9:02 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by Gold77 View Post
Only in England do we find solutions that minimise the impact at the expense of the flag carrier.

Do you really think this would happen in Germany, France or Italy? BA should have invested in some lobbyists...
I think it is quite common around the world that the terminals serving Low Cost Carriers do not get the best connectivity.

...standby incoming...hard hat now on
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Old Jul 4, 17, 9:02 am
  #47  
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Originally Posted by McCoy View Post
I can see HAH lobbying hard for Crossrail to not undercut HEX significantly.. In fact, there may already be a pricing agreement in place to allow the integration of systems.
This is on the back of HAH's failed legal challenge to set the prices for access to their railway. They might not be in the strongest position for lobbying.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 9:07 am
  #48  
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Originally Posted by McCoy View Post
I can see HAH lobbying hard for Crossrail to not undercut HEX significantly.. In fact, there may already be a pricing agreement in place to allow the integration of systems.
There was a recent court case over an Office Rail Regulation ruling over the access charges HAL wanted to charge.

HAL lost.

edit - I see calchas beat me too it plus a link!
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Old Jul 4, 17, 10:09 am
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Originally Posted by DrGee View Post
It's the western access from Reading that I'd be most happy to see. Sadly unlikely in my flying lifetime.
Yeh it's amazing how long it's going to take to build 5.5km of track - OK so that have to tunnel a lot of it but the planning seems to take ages

https://consultations.networkrail.co...inktoheathrow/
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Old Jul 4, 17, 10:13 am
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It seems very complicated. I guess there's lots of people and groups involved, all with their own wants and also an existing infrastructure needing to be adapted to changing terminals as time passes.

In some ways I don't know why all trains and tubes don't just go London to T2&3 to T5. A shuttle service could operate to T4 from T2&3. A same-platform transfer could be set up and if trains and shuttles connected there shouldn't be too much extra time needed to get to T4, on average, owing to more frequent trains.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 11:18 am
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Originally Posted by MarkFlies View Post
It seems very complicated. I guess there's lots of people and groups involved, all with their own wants and also an existing infrastructure needing to be adapted to changing terminals as time passes.

In some ways I don't know why all trains and tubes don't just go London to T2&3 to T5. A shuttle service could operate to T4 from T2&3. A same-platform transfer could be set up and if trains and shuttles connected there shouldn't be too much extra time needed to get to T4, on average, owing to more frequent trains.
Re the tube there is only one track on the T4 loop from London around to T123 and then back to London.

There also isn't any track to complete the loop to have a circular one that would allow T4 >> T123 >>> T4 service

You's also need to fit it in to the pattern of the T5 > T123 > Town trains and that would have schedule implications for the rest of the line.

I can't see TFL wanting to do this sort of work for what would be very little (if any) benefit to them.

Last edited by UKtravelbear; Jul 4, 17 at 11:46 am
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Old Jul 4, 17, 11:49 am
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Originally Posted by UKtravelbear View Post
Re the tube there is only one track on the T4 loop from London around to T123 and then back to London.

There also isn't any track to complete the loop to have a circular one that would allow T4 >> T123 >>> T4 service

You's also need to fit it in to the pattern of the T5 > T123 > Town trains and that would have schedule implications for the rest of the line.

I can't see TFL wanting to do this sort of work for what would be very little (if any) benefit to them.
Alas, I know. Where is the money-tree when you need it?!
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:41 pm
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
I am assuming any walk on crossrail fare is still going to be significantly cheaper than HEX.
Could they even differentiate fares. Unless Crossrail will be using dedicated stations, it's going to be tough to separate tube users from Crossrail users. I haven't spend too much time pondering about CR stations at LHR, but I have seen renderings of the central London stations and all have access points to existing tubes.

AFAIK, they could easily integrate CR into the existing network. After all that's what they did with the DLR, London Overground and trams. A special crossrail zone for Heathrow seems counterproductive.

Last edited by Prospero; Jul 5, 17 at 4:49 pm Reason: remove meta discussion to bring thread back on topic
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Old Jul 4, 17, 1:55 pm
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Originally Posted by WorldLux View Post
Could they even differentiate fares. Unless Crossrail will be using dedicated stations, it's going to be tough to separate tube users from Crossrail users. I haven't spend too much time pondering about CR stations at LHR, but I have seen renderings of the central London stations and all have access points to existing tubes.
They can differentiate via where you touched in / out. For example LGW-Victoria if you touch out on platforms 13/14 then you will have used the GEX service rather than the southern ones.

After crossrail opens if you were to touch out at the current normal Paddington station platforms (assuming HEX allows that) then you would be assumed to have use the HEX but at the Elizabeth Line Paddington station which is underground you would have used the Elizabeth service and thus be charged the different fare.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 2:39 pm
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Originally Posted by UKtravelbear View Post
They can differentiate via where you touched in / out. For example LGW-Victoria if you touch out on platforms 13/14 then you will have used the GEX service rather than the southern ones.
But only if there are separate gates. AFAIK Elizabeth line is going to be fully integrated into existing underground stations, hence making it impossible to know if someone traveling from Bond Street to Tottenham Court Road used the Central line or the Elisabeth line.

That said, (and again, I don't really know the station situation for Crossrail at LHR), if they don't mix passengers before they touch out, they could charge differently.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 2:43 pm
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Originally Posted by WorldLux View Post
But only if there are separate gates. AFAIK Elizabeth line is going to be fully integrated into existing underground stations, hence making it impossible to know if someone traveling from Bond Street to Tottenham Court Road used the Central line or the Elisabeth line.

That said, (and again, I don't really know the station situation for Crossrail at LHR), if they don't mix passengers before they touch out, they could charge differently.
Crossrail will use the HEX platforms, which currently do not have Oyster card readers. It's likely they will add these and charge a 'special' fare.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 2:47 pm
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Originally Posted by WorldLux View Post
But only if there are separate gates. AFAIK Elizabeth line is going to be fully integrated into existing underground stations, hence making it impossible to know if someone traveling from Bond Street to Tottenham Court Road used the Central line or the Elisabeth line.

That said, (and again, I don't really know the station situation for Crossrail at LHR), if they don't mix passengers before they touch out, they could charge differently.
The entrance/exit for the HEX at Paddington will be completely separate from the sub-surface crossrail entrance/exit so that would differentiate whether you used HEX or crossrail. If you popped up at the T2/3 station and had touched in at say Farringdon and not having touched in at the HEX platforms at Paddington you must have used crossrail.

Tube passengers arriving at LHR at T2/3 and T5 will use the current entrance/exits which are completely separate from HEX or wherever crossrail will go. They wouldn't mix with HEX/crossrail passengers at LHR.
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Old Jul 4, 17, 2:51 pm
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Originally Posted by WorldLux View Post
But only if there are separate gates. AFAIK Elizabeth line is going to be fully integrated into existing underground stations, hence making it impossible to know if someone traveling from Bond Street to Tottenham Court Road used the Central line or the Elisabeth line.

That said, (and again, I don't really know the station situation for Crossrail at LHR), if they don't mix passengers before they touch out, they could charge differently.
In those cases it won't matter but it does for people travelling from LHR hence touch at a paddington tube station or oxford street = you got cross rail but touch out at the padding rail station = HEX (because you;d then have to touch into enter the underground system)

At Gatwick for example the differentiation happens at Victoria and you are charged depending on which gate line you touch out at. Gates 13/14 = GEX
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Old Jul 4, 17, 3:14 pm
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And this has just appeard on the 'Ian viits' blog

Elizabeth Line gets an extension to T5

It will happen from December 2019

And from from May 2018 new ticket readers will be installed at LHR allowing contactless and oyster cards to be used
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Old Jul 4, 17, 3:18 pm
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So I guess this will mean with Oyster card readers installed at the HEX platforms, in order to use the HEX to transfer between termainls you would need an oyster or contactless card? Atm you do for the tube but for those with neither you can use the HEX.
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