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Dec 13, 2018, 4:48 pm
#3346
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Dec 14, 2018, 8:02 am
#3347
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Dec 16, 2018, 9:28 am
#3349
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Dec 16, 2018, 10:04 am
#3350
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Location: Leeds, UK
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Well I had a question about whether LCY could be on eastleries when LHR was on westerlies and how much of a pain it is if it happens.
The first part of my question though has been answered today as I can down from MAN early this afternoon and landed on 09 at LCY when LHR was still on westerlies so it was interesting to see the LHR bound aircraft above us as we turned in to LCY. I still would like to know about the second part of the question tho, how much of a pain is it when this happens?
The first part of my question though has been answered today as I can down from MAN early this afternoon and landed on 09 at LCY when LHR was still on westerlies so it was interesting to see the LHR bound aircraft above us as we turned in to LCY. I still would like to know about the second part of the question tho, how much of a pain is it when this happens?
Dec 17, 2018, 6:39 am
#3351
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Well I had a question about whether LCY could be on eastleries when LHR was on westerlies and how much of a pain it is if it happens.
The first part of my question though has been answered today as I can down from MAN early this afternoon and landed on 09 at LCY when LHR was still on westerlies so it was interesting to see the LHR bound aircraft above us as we turned in to LCY. I still would like to know about the second part of the question tho, how much of a pain is it when this happens?
The first part of my question though has been answered today as I can down from MAN early this afternoon and landed on 09 at LCY when LHR was still on westerlies so it was interesting to see the LHR bound aircraft above us as we turned in to LCY. I still would like to know about the second part of the question tho, how much of a pain is it when this happens?
(and it happens quite often, probably a third of the year -- LCY is quicker to "turn around", and more subject to wind with such a short runway)
Dec 17, 2018, 6:54 am
#3352
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I live in East London, it means that we get the last turn of flights into LHR, and the final approach for LCY fly overhead. Not too much of a pain though, you get used to it.
(and it happens quite often, probably a third of the year -- LCY is quicker to "turn around", and more subject to wind with such a short runway)
(and it happens quite often, probably a third of the year -- LCY is quicker to "turn around", and more subject to wind with such a short runway)
I should have added, how much of a pain is it for the ATC folks when this happens? Is it not an issue at all or does it make the day a bit harder when you have this?
Dec 17, 2018, 7:39 am
#3353
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Dec 18, 2018, 7:38 am
#3354
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Dec 18, 2018, 11:16 am
#3355
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: LHR Air Traffic Control
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With the caveat that I stay in my ivory tower and am not affected by LCY being on easterlies while we’re still on westerlies, I don’t think it’s an issue. In fact, it could be argued that from a point of view it’s actually better, as you have LHR arrivals descending on top of LCY arrivals who are also descending, rather than us both being on westerlies where you have LHR arrivals descending on top of LCY departures that are climbing. This combination, allied to TCAS, has sometimes caused interesting situations, and a level bust by the LCY departure would be at a critical point, hence why I believe the LCY departure routes provide more than 1000ft separation under the LHR arrivals (this is off the top of my head without having checked AIP and MATS etc, hence the cagey language). Hopefully Scott will be along to correct me!
Last edited by Heathrow Tower; Dec 18, 2018 at 2:55 pm
Dec 18, 2018, 1:32 pm
#3356
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Dec 19, 2018, 3:52 am
#3357
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Dec 19, 2018, 7:04 am
#3358
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Well I had a question about whether LCY could be on eastleries when LHR was on westerlies and how much of a pain it is if it happens.
The first part of my question though has been answered today as I can down from MAN early this afternoon and landed on 09 at LCY when LHR was still on westerlies so it was interesting to see the LHR bound aircraft above us as we turned in to LCY. I still would like to know about the second part of the question tho, how much of a pain is it when this happens?
The first part of my question though has been answered today as I can down from MAN early this afternoon and landed on 09 at LCY when LHR was still on westerlies so it was interesting to see the LHR bound aircraft above us as we turned in to LCY. I still would like to know about the second part of the question tho, how much of a pain is it when this happens?
With the caveat that I stay in my ivory tower and am not affected by LCY being on easterlies while we’re still on westerlies, I don’t think it’s an issue. In fact, it could be argued that from a point of view it’s actually better, as you have LHR arrivals descending on top of LCY arrivals who are also descending, rather than us both being on westerlies where you have LHR arrivals descending on top of LCY departures that are climbing. This combination, allied to TCAS, has sometimes caused interesting situations, and a level bust by the LCY departure would be at a critical point, hence why I believe the LCY departure routes provide more than 1000ft separation under the LHR arrivals (this is off the top of my head without having checked AIP and MATS etc, hence the cagey language). Hopefully Scott will be along to correct me!
Hope that made some sense!
Dec 19, 2018, 7:44 am
#3359
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LON
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Yes it is definitely possible as you have spotted, and from my understanding they are totally independent. LHR arrivals to the 27s must remain at or above 4000ft until both south of the LCY extended centerline and within 13 nautical miles of LHR, which keeps them separated from LCY departures which climb to 3000ft. At LCY a specific additional reminder of the initial stop altitude of the SID is given after the clearance after a number of level busts (no extra separation!). When LCY is landing 09 their arrivals come downwind at 2000ft which is because the DET and ULTIB departures of the LHR 09s have 3000ft or above climb restrictions at around 10 miles from departure. If LHR is on 27s and LCY on 09 then you get an additional 1000ft of separation between their arrivals, but I'm not sure if either side use this space tactically at all or they just continue with standard operations which keeps things routine.
Hope that made some sense!
Hope that made some sense!
They look much further apart when LCY turns to 09.So both on 27s is probably the worst configuration, really.
Dec 26, 2018, 4:59 pm
#3360
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