What happens to Avios / TPs / status upon the death of the account holder ?
Oct 23, 2013, 5:43 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Yorkshire Dales
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What happens to Avios / TPs / status upon the death of the account holder ?
Hi, I recently contacted BA to let them know again! that my husband had died, this time I got a response and a negative response when I asked that his air miles be transferred to my account. Why is this the case. We travelled together and built up the miles together.....
Oct 23, 2013, 6:38 am
#2
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Welcome to Flyertalk. Sorry to hear about the loss of your husband.
As your question is exclusively tied to BA's policies, I'll move the thread to the forum dedicated to that airline.
As your question is exclusively tied to BA's policies, I'll move the thread to the forum dedicated to that airline.
Oct 23, 2013, 6:55 am
#3
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Welcome penhill57
penhill57, I am very sorry to read about the loss of your husband, it must be a really bad time for you. Along the way I also welcome you to the British Airways forum on Flyertalk. Despite the bad circumstances that brought you here, I am still pleased that you have found us. Please feel free to join in here, were are fairly diverse group and it's a good place to make new friends. Welcome onboard.
I am afraid it is a well known feature of Avios is that they don't "belong" to the passenger, they belong to the airline and the airline specifically says in the T&Cs that upon death they revert to BA. I think most frequent flyer schemes are the same in that respect. I know of people who are a little coy about mentioning the death of their loved ones in this situation, but it is nonetheless a breach of the terms and conditions if they take advantage of that delay.
I doubt that this is what you wanted to read, but I am sorry to say that's how it works on BA, and indeed many other airlines. If there is a particular issue on a specific flight you may find a bit of flexibility by contacting Customer Service, but that is as far as it goes I think. The other advantage of this forum is to find out other ways of building up Avios balances, and so maybe that is a pointer for you.
Again, my commiserations at your loss.
I am afraid it is a well known feature of Avios is that they don't "belong" to the passenger, they belong to the airline and the airline specifically says in the T&Cs that upon death they revert to BA. I think most frequent flyer schemes are the same in that respect. I know of people who are a little coy about mentioning the death of their loved ones in this situation, but it is nonetheless a breach of the terms and conditions if they take advantage of that delay.
I doubt that this is what you wanted to read, but I am sorry to say that's how it works on BA, and indeed many other airlines. If there is a particular issue on a specific flight you may find a bit of flexibility by contacting Customer Service, but that is as far as it goes I think. The other advantage of this forum is to find out other ways of building up Avios balances, and so maybe that is a pointer for you.
Again, my commiserations at your loss.
Oct 23, 2013, 7:03 am
#5
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My mother is in a similar situation with my father's death a few months ago.
She had a household account set up prior to his death anyway and has / is booking travel on avios using the household account Avios.
Technically this is not in line with the rules, but my father would have hated to see the meagre few Avios he did have go to waste.
She had a household account set up prior to his death anyway and has / is booking travel on avios using the household account Avios.
Technically this is not in line with the rules, but my father would have hated to see the meagre few Avios he did have go to waste.
Oct 23, 2013, 7:10 am
#6
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Oct 23, 2013, 7:11 am
#7
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penhill57, dreadful news for you ... sorry for your loss. And welcome to the boards ...... 
If it is worth the effort, you might wish to consider the unchartered waters of the small claims procedure or at least the threat of it.
I and others believe that the T's and C's that are applied in this siutation do not comply with "unfair contract terms" in consumer contracts in the UK. And normally what is "common sense" applies. I believe that your husband "owns" these miles not BA. I believe that they are therefore your own property. I think the arguments to support that idea are pretty obvious and BA's position complete rubbish and almost certainly legally unsustainable nonsense. Most sensible people will agree. You would have had them if they had been in a family account. He could have paid for them in cash. They therefore both "have value" and are "his property". Just because BA says otherwise in small print he may have never even have noticed - doesn't make it "so". I think if you started that procedure I am quite confident that you will find that BA will "make an exception" and transfer them to you because they would prefer their T's and C's to remain "unclarified".
Sorry again to hear of the circumstances, but don't be bullied into compliance. Go collect your husband's miles. That is what your husband would have wanted ?
If you need help in formulatiing your approach - ask. Many of us here will help you.
If it is worth the effort, you might wish to consider the unchartered waters of the small claims procedure or at least the threat of it.
I and others believe that the T's and C's that are applied in this siutation do not comply with "unfair contract terms" in consumer contracts in the UK. And normally what is "common sense" applies. I believe that your husband "owns" these miles not BA. I believe that they are therefore your own property. I think the arguments to support that idea are pretty obvious and BA's position complete rubbish and almost certainly legally unsustainable nonsense. Most sensible people will agree. You would have had them if they had been in a family account. He could have paid for them in cash. They therefore both "have value" and are "his property". Just because BA says otherwise in small print he may have never even have noticed - doesn't make it "so". I think if you started that procedure I am quite confident that you will find that BA will "make an exception" and transfer them to you because they would prefer their T's and C's to remain "unclarified".
Sorry again to hear of the circumstances, but don't be bullied into compliance. Go collect your husband's miles. That is what your husband would have wanted ?
If you need help in formulatiing your approach - ask. Many of us here will help you.
Oct 23, 2013, 7:35 am
#8
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BOS
Programs: BA Silver, Mucci
Posts: 5,289
You could send a private message to Nicci, the British Airways Executive Club rep on this board. If anyone can help in this situation it would be Nicci.
Her FT handle is ba executive club and you can send her a message from here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...tive-club.html
Her FT handle is ba executive club and you can send her a message from here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...tive-club.html
Oct 23, 2013, 7:43 am
#9
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Epsom, Surrey
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I'm sorry to hear of your situation too.
However you built up your miles and your husband built up his.
Now your husband is no longer with us, the avios always did and still do belong to BA, not your husband and not yourself.
I dont really agree that this is unfair, it is part of the Ts and Cs which everyone is free to and should read before taking part in such collection schemes whether it is airline schemes or supermarket loyalty points.
Feel free to try and persuade BA to let you have some avios but I think you should be prepared for disappointment and may wish to spend your time deciding what to do with the avios you do have rather than trying to fight for those which are not and never were yours.
However you built up your miles and your husband built up his.
Now your husband is no longer with us, the avios always did and still do belong to BA, not your husband and not yourself.
I dont really agree that this is unfair, it is part of the Ts and Cs which everyone is free to and should read before taking part in such collection schemes whether it is airline schemes or supermarket loyalty points.
Feel free to try and persuade BA to let you have some avios but I think you should be prepared for disappointment and may wish to spend your time deciding what to do with the avios you do have rather than trying to fight for those which are not and never were yours.
Oct 23, 2013, 7:44 am
#10
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Welcome to the forums even if it is in such circumstances. I hope you find information here which can help.
For reasons I can't really explain/don't want to explain. I have an understanding of T&Cs in relation to British law.
In short a company is perfectly within it's rights to write whatever it likes in their terms and conditions. But just because they're written and just because they were agreed to doesn't make them law.
They must be fair. I'd suggest that the way the rule is being applied in this case isn't fair and wouldn't be judged to be fair. Do a search and try and put a value on the points (don't do it by their maximum value possible value i.e. F to SYD, do it based on how you'd actually use them). Then see if you can use the small claims court.
BA will probably agree with you quite quickly. Be firm, and polite make sure they know that you're aware of your rights and the applicable laws and why you believe you're being fair.
Good luck!
For reasons I can't really explain/don't want to explain. I have an understanding of T&Cs in relation to British law.
In short a company is perfectly within it's rights to write whatever it likes in their terms and conditions. But just because they're written and just because they were agreed to doesn't make them law.
They must be fair. I'd suggest that the way the rule is being applied in this case isn't fair and wouldn't be judged to be fair. Do a search and try and put a value on the points (don't do it by their maximum value possible value i.e. F to SYD, do it based on how you'd actually use them). Then see if you can use the small claims court.
BA will probably agree with you quite quickly. Be firm, and polite make sure they know that you're aware of your rights and the applicable laws and why you believe you're being fair.
Good luck!
Oct 23, 2013, 7:51 am
#11
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Oct 23, 2013, 7:51 am
#12
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I'm sorry to hear of your situation too.
However you built up your miles and your husband built up his.
Now your husband is no longer with us, the avios always did and still do belong to BA, not your husband and not yourself.
I dont really agree that this is unfair, it is part of the Ts and Cs which everyone is free to and should read before taking part in such collection schemes whether it is airline schemes or supermarket loyalty points.
Feel free to try and persuade BA to let you have some avios but I think you should be prepared for disappointment and may wish to spend your time deciding what to do with the avios you do have rather than trying to fight for those which are not and never were yours.
However you built up your miles and your husband built up his.
Now your husband is no longer with us, the avios always did and still do belong to BA, not your husband and not yourself.
I dont really agree that this is unfair, it is part of the Ts and Cs which everyone is free to and should read before taking part in such collection schemes whether it is airline schemes or supermarket loyalty points.
Feel free to try and persuade BA to let you have some avios but I think you should be prepared for disappointment and may wish to spend your time deciding what to do with the avios you do have rather than trying to fight for those which are not and never were yours.
BA will be delighted that you consider them fair ... but the OP disagrees and in fact she is right ... it is unfair .. and therefore unsustainable.
We shall see ....
Oct 23, 2013, 7:58 am
#14
Join Date: Mar 2008
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The consumer law in the UK has progressed some way past the notion that any consumer must accept what that have or have not seen are in the Ts and Cs.
BA will be delighted that you consider them fair ... but the OP disagrees and in fact she is right ... it is unfair .. and therefore unsustainable.
We shall see ....
BA will be delighted that you consider them fair ... but the OP disagrees and in fact she is right ... it is unfair .. and therefore unsustainable.
We shall see ....
Are you going to back up your assertions that BAEC's Ts and Cs are unfair and unsustainable or is there no substance to this?.. we shall see...
Oct 23, 2013, 7:58 am
#15
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Without getting into discussion about potentially unfair contract terms and small claims, the reality is that your husband built up miles/avois for flights he took, and you built up miles/avios for flights you took. In that respect yes you did build up miles/avios together, but at the same time separately, if you see what I mean.