Want to know your CIV score? Just ask then!
Jul 17, 2013, 9:32 am
#91
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: WAS
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Nexus, GE
Posts: 2,123
Seriously though, I often see airlines all over the globe posting passenger manifests in the galleys. There's not some crazy amount of information. UA's have name, seat number, and basically a code corresponding to status. My credit card number, social security number, pet and/or children's birthdates, and the nuclear launch codes are nowhere to be found. Maybe it's worth relaxing just a little bit here. Obviously a little strange to show pax the manifest, but even stranger to condemn it as the most egregious violation of the data protection act of the year.
P.S.: It's an American stereotype that the Brits are nice, polite people. I may be coming away with a slightly different impression from this thread.
Jul 17, 2013, 9:37 am
#92
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: MUCCI
Posts: 833
What "misunderstandings"... it seems the only misunderstandings here are by the BA Apologists who insist on trying to defend the unprofessional actions of the cabin crew member involved.
As LittleGirl confirmed earlier, like it or not it is pretty black and white as far as BA and the Data Protection Act are concerned.:
And as UKTravelBear said :
As LittleGirl confirmed earlier, like it or not it is pretty black and white as far as BA and the Data Protection Act are concerned.:
You are right that it is against the Data Protection Law to show the names of other passengers on the flight to any other passengers. It is even against the Data Protection Law for us to confirm if someone else is onboard the flight.
Please rest assured that this is not a normal thing for a SCCM to do and that BA does take data protection very seriously.
All our passenger information lists are placed into confidential waste bins by the SCCMs and destroyed by BA.
Please rest assured that this is not a normal thing for a SCCM to do and that BA does take data protection very seriously.
All our passenger information lists are placed into confidential waste bins by the SCCMs and destroyed by BA.
A breach is a breach is a breach.
The casual way the BA staffer handed over the PIL is one of the reasons why the DPA was needed in the first place.
The casual way the BA staffer handed over the PIL is one of the reasons why the DPA was needed in the first place.
Jul 17, 2013, 9:42 am
#94
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: London
Posts: 3,459
What "misunderstandings"... it seems the only misunderstandings here are by the BA Apologists who insist on trying to defend the unprofessional actions of the cabin crew member involved.
As LittleGirl confirmed earlier, like it or not it is pretty black and white as far as BA and the Data Protection Act are concerned.:
As LittleGirl confirmed earlier, like it or not it is pretty black and white as far as BA and the Data Protection Act are concerned.:
Jul 17, 2013, 9:43 am
#95
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: MUCCI
Posts: 833
(a) Me
(b) LittleGirl
(c) UKTravelBear
LittleGirl in particular stated that BA training and policy is pretty black and white in this area. So I would be curious as to why you suddenly think its "childish rubbish" and a "misunderstanding of the law" ?
Jul 17, 2013, 9:48 am
#96
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Swindon UK
Programs: BAEC, FB, QANTAS, IHG, Hilton, Marriott, AVIS Preferred, MRAeS
Posts: 813
Some people couldn't care less about it and some are keen to know what it is.
Seems it also causes quite a rumpus on this board too! This is the second time this has happened
Last edited by vibrex; Jul 17, 2013 at 9:49 am Reason: Typo - again!
Jul 17, 2013, 9:58 am
#97
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Posts: 442
I don't think that a list of names constitutes personal data - the DPA cites:
"Personal data is information that relates to a ‘living individual’ who can be identified from that data, or from that, together with other information that we hold."
So you couldn't identify an individual from seeing their name on a manifest - even if it is supplemented with your status, civ or inside leg measurement.
If I google my actual name, I get over 2 million results. Take away the fact that I'm so massively famous that most of those posts will be about me
and you'll still end up with multiple people with my name.
I'm sure BA train their staff that best practice is to keep the manifest confidential, but I think you'd be hard pushed to make a complaint.
"Personal data is information that relates to a ‘living individual’ who can be identified from that data, or from that, together with other information that we hold."
So you couldn't identify an individual from seeing their name on a manifest - even if it is supplemented with your status, civ or inside leg measurement.
If I google my actual name, I get over 2 million results. Take away the fact that I'm so massively famous that most of those posts will be about me
and you'll still end up with multiple people with my name. I'm sure BA train their staff that best practice is to keep the manifest confidential, but I think you'd be hard pushed to make a complaint.
Jul 17, 2013, 10:00 am
#98
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: usually somewhere between 30000 and 40000 feet...but actually the English countryside
Programs: BA GGL/Lifetime Gold, EK Gold, Lowly M&M, Marriott tit, Hhonors Diamond, numerous others
Posts: 1,156
I can't believe I have just ploughed my way through 7 pages of this!
CIV = Customer Indicator Value and is between 0 - 100.
Taken to the extremes then, I suppose the "Celebs on BA" thread will be no more then?
Time to lock the thread and move on.
CIV = Customer Indicator Value and is between 0 - 100.
Taken to the extremes then, I suppose the "Celebs on BA" thread will be no more then?
Time to lock the thread and move on.
Jul 17, 2013, 10:05 am
#99
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: MUCCI
Posts: 833
Re-read the very definition you posted !
The Data Protection Act is there to protect personally identifiable information.
The identifiable information is the CIV,seat, meal pref and whatever else is printed on each line of the manifest.
BA print peoples names alongside the identifiable information. Therefore the information is personally identifiable.
From the ICO website :
Idenitfiability:
An individual is 'identified' if you have distinguished that individual from other members of a group.In most cases an individual’s name together with some other information will be sufficient to identify them.
An individual is 'identified' if you have distinguished that individual from other members of a group.In most cases an individual’s name together with some other information will be sufficient to identify them.
The ICO also details :
Meaning of 'relates to' :
Data which identifies an individual, even without a name associated with it, may be personal data where it is processed to learn or record something about that individual, or where the processing of that information has an impact upon that individual. Therefore, data may 'relate to' an individual in several different ways.
Data which identifies an individual, even without a name associated with it, may be personal data where it is processed to learn or record something about that individual, or where the processing of that information has an impact upon that individual. Therefore, data may 'relate to' an individual in several different ways.
Last edited by Short Final; Jul 17, 2013 at 10:16 am
Jul 17, 2013, 10:07 am
#100
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,145
It clearly matters a bit to shirt-finals and a few others. As mine is between 35 and 0, I really don't care.
Indeed, I don't know why anyone cares. It's a management tool. It is NOT a social tool ... Codpieces had that function some 5 Centuries ago. Is CIV the modern equivalent?
BTW, for Data Protection purposes, my travel plans are available on ba97.com.
Indeed, I don't know why anyone cares. It's a management tool. It is NOT a social tool ... Codpieces had that function some 5 Centuries ago. Is CIV the modern equivalent?
BTW, for Data Protection purposes, my travel plans are available on ba97.com.
Jul 17, 2013, 10:10 am
#101
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: Ice Cream Club, AC SE MM, Bonvoy Life Plat
Posts: 2,803
Which act if you're flying over international waters?
Jul 17, 2013, 10:12 am
#102
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London
Posts: 442
Oh dear !
Re-read the very definition you posted !
The Data Protection Act is there to protect personally identifiable information.
The identifiable information is the CIV,seat, meal pref and whatever else is printed on each line of the manifest.
BA print peoples names alongside the identifiable information. Therefore the information is personally identifiable.
Re-read the very definition you posted !
The Data Protection Act is there to protect personally identifiable information.
The identifiable information is the CIV,seat, meal pref and whatever else is printed on each line of the manifest.
BA print peoples names alongside the identifiable information. Therefore the information is personally identifiable.
I admire your tenacity with this argument, but your logic fails me.
Jul 17, 2013, 10:24 am
#104
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: Ice Cream Club, AC SE MM, Bonvoy Life Plat
Posts: 2,803
Or even just booking a ticket on the same flight and, during smooth flight, walking around.
Might as well take a quick snap of the (usually clearly posted) PIL sitting in the front galley... I find the easiest way is to leave the camera in "video" taking 30 fps, high res low light performing technology, and just sweep around while going up to the front to take a poopoo.
Seriously. You cannot keep this simple information private. Heck, I can just hang around the gates airside on a completely unrelated flight and take "tourist" pictures. You are in a public space. While your name, payment details, etc., are not readily available to a public onlooker, presumably anyone looking to confirm/deny a passenger would likely have knowledge of how the person looks in the first place. Seriously what stalker wouldn't already know his/her target's appearance?
Jul 17, 2013, 10:26 am
#105
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: Mucci de la Cuisine Aérienne du Réseau Courte Durée de British Airways
Posts: 4,704
Look everyone, whether you agree or disagree with Short Finals views about this crew member, it is definately against the Data Protection Law for any BA employee to divulge the names of other passengers to anyone, whether they are also a passenger or not.
The list should not have been shown but do I think this person needs the sack, no, they just need to sit their annual refresher course.
The whoe thread is a complete waste of time because unless the OP chooses to tell BA about the incident, which sounds very unlikely, it really is just a bit of a rant by Short Finals.
The crew member made a mistake in showing the list, lets just leave it at that and all agree to differ on whether it is a hanging offence or not, I think not but I expect if BA did know who this was, they would be in big trouble.
The list should not have been shown but do I think this person needs the sack, no, they just need to sit their annual refresher course.
The whoe thread is a complete waste of time because unless the OP chooses to tell BA about the incident, which sounds very unlikely, it really is just a bit of a rant by Short Finals.
The crew member made a mistake in showing the list, lets just leave it at that and all agree to differ on whether it is a hanging offence or not, I think not but I expect if BA did know who this was, they would be in big trouble.