orbitmic

Apparently the strike is now due to finish tomorrow evening and Thursday should see a return to full traffic

Deltahater

our MAD-DUS was delayed by 3 hours than cancelled yesterday on IB. Got rebooked 9 hours later on MAD-MUC, when was then delayed by 1.5 hours

The point is that this affects more than just flights in and out of France

on another note, I read some of the EU261/2004 rules and it seems that strikes are not necessarily viewed as an extraordinary situation that reliefs the airline of having to pay compensation. Does anybody have any additional information about overcoming the strike argument when requesting compensation from an airline?

Thanks

orbitmic

There is caselaw (and I believe it is discussed in the compensation thread already) and while there might be doubt when the strike is within the airline itself (I haven't read any case about that specific situation), strikes outside of the airline control such as ATC strike have been clearly and consistently treated as exceptional circumstances by the ECJ so no compensation is due.

cosmo74

Almost every flight at Gatwick yesterday seemed to be delayed (many for 2hours or more), and most this morning seem to be subject to some sort of delay, although it doesn't seem as bad as yesterday. Interestingly, the Gatwick website doesn't seem to like to give the bad news that a flight is cancelled on its departures board - they prefer to say 'Enquire with Airline'. Is this standard practice? Here's hoping things are back to normal tomorrow when I'm due to fly from there.

tangey

Whereas of course, striking air traffic controllers doesn't jeopardise safety.

Safety my bum, it's about protecting their jobs, and about money. That's all striking is ever about.

Scott Pilgrim

The biggest cost of any ANSP is staff. If the other ANSP's face the same enforced cost reductions as NATS is apparently facing from the EC then they have some pretty stiff targets to meet.

NATS has started down the road of seeking voluntary redundancies, compulsory at a future date has not been ruled out.

Lower numbers of controllers in the future most likely won't jeopardise safety, but it may impact (at least in the case of NATS) the record low level of delays attributable to ATC.

Who really knows at the moment, but the future is going to be, shall we say, interesting.

p.s. the whole process is also apparently being driven in large part for political legacy reasons, not the ideal way to run the European ATC system.

Montanabusiness

Me and daughter waiting to board ATL to CDG....no issues . Heard ORD to CDG had cancellations yesterday.

kanderson1965

This may be a naive question but why is the EC dictating the cost of ATC services, surely this is for individual authorities to determine?

Scott Pilgrim

http://ec.europa.eu/commission_2010-...esplus2_en.htm

The above link gives some background.

Despite the fact the playing field may not be level, NATS is considered expensive (yet also is considered one of the most cost effective, go figure) amongst European ANSPs so is shortly going to have some pretty severe cost reductions forced upon it.

kanderson1965

Thanks for that, it makes interesting reading. As usual for the commission, it would seem they take the view that they know best how things should be run in Europe and are acting as if Europe is a single country. This is evident in their constant comparisons with the USA.
The commission has no concept of individual authorities answerable to proper parliamentary scrutiny.

It will be interesting how non-EU member countries in Europe are reacting to these proposals.

orbitmic

Well, the non-EU member states and member states on the peripheries of Europe like Ireland, the UK, Spain, or Portugal will be very happy with the proposal. I think that the point you seem to be missing here is that your BA flight from LHR to FCO is effectively paying for the salary of French ATC workers who work 84 days a year and for the extra fuel and delays costs involved in the longer itinerary imposed by inefficient air traffic management. You might think that French ATC knows best how to organise French ATC, but in effect, it is costing you quite a lot! From the UK, any eastward or southward flight (rest of Europe, Asia, Africa, Oceania) will pretty much necessarily need to 'borrow' the airspaces of France, Belgium, and/or the Netherlands. So effectively, the Commission is trying to shave several euros/pounds off the cost of transporting you and therefore, in effect, off the cost of your ticket!

PS: Of course, it works both ways, similarly, almost all flights going to the US from France, Germany, the Netherlands or Belgium among others will similarly be impacted by the organisation of UK ATC!

bd95

BHD uses the equally euphemistic "Contact airline".

Scott Pilgrim

There will likely be winners and losers. This is Private Eye's take...

orbitmic

You are certainly right indeed - it is going to be a rough process in more than one way! But my sense is that as long as safety always comes first, this should be a relatively positive evolution for passengers. Or maybe, for once, I'm too optimistic!

Scott Pilgrim

I expect I'll be retired for some time before you as a passenger sees any positive evolution.