Final 3 Greens

Firstly, let me apologise for missing the OPs further post about the phone call. No excuses.

Having said that, there should have been no discussion about the taxi fare, BA failed to comply with the provisions of EU261 and did not offer assistance; whatever the reasons for that, it is appalling, in my opinion, that there was even a dialogue about less than full reimbursement.

I am not questioning that diversions happen, I once had to divert on a private flight, due to a horse being loose on the runway. I'd class that as extraordinary circumstances.

In this instance, it was predictable that the wind conditions might not allow for a stabilised approach in accordance with BA SOPs (and according to other posters there were previous diversions, so this was more than a theoretical possibility) and thus a contingency plan was required; I would never question BAs safety standards and if the approach was not stabilised, the captain had no choice other than to divert.

Knowing that, to despatch a flight without apparent contingency is not acceptable. This is a major airline, not a band end bunch of charter chancers.

Just to add some context, the OP was deposited in a country he was not expecting to arrive in, in the middle of the night, without assistance.

Unjustifiable, IMHO. (And not the fault of the operating crew.)

Littlegirl

The actual OP has twice said that he is 'a very satisfied customer', his words.

Apparently eleven other airlines diverted into this airport. Presumably they also received the same forecast for Dublin.

If I had to guess, I would guess that most of the people wanting to travel to Dublin would prefer to be a relatively short drive away than at LHR for the night and unable to get to Dubin untill the next day.

It is unfortunate that so many airlines diverted into the same airport causing the local coaches to run out (unsurprisingly with eleven other aircraft diverting in) but presumably, this must have been the only airport option.

BA would not have departed to Dublin unless the forecast was showing that Dublin airport would be open. They definately do not take off to go to an airport, that they know they will not be abe to land at.

HighLife

OP should be happy at the eventual outcome.

I was in a similar situation after my flight was diverted to BOD due to a storm at TLS a while back. Along with a BA Captain (also travelling CE) we found BOD local handling agents so incapable and out of their depth (it being 01:30 probably didn't help!) we simply commandeered a taxi back to TLS between three of us (€660 as i remember) and BA paid up afterwards without question when I sent in the receipt.

Arrived between 3 and 4am instead of 10pm the night before basically.

HMPS

You are welcome to your opinions.

HMPS

Bolding mine...

Then you also guess that all the stranded pax had the LUCK, RESOURCES & INITIATIVE to act in a like manner in a strange location / country ?

Yes the OP said he was satisfied. Good for him. Can you say that the others got the same treatment ? I thought the debate had veered to what could / should have been done. A few posts above this do seem to make that point.

HIDDY

Agreed.....I'm surprised the Captain of the flight didn't take charge of the situation.
However we only have the OP's story and he did seem to be in rather a rush to get on his way to DUB therefore didn't see what really happened to the rest of the passengers.
If the passengers were abandoned then that was totally unacceptable but we just don't know for sure if that was how it turned out....it would certainly have made a good Daily Mail story if true.

Final 3 Greens

Hiddy, you make a good point, but it may be that the captain lacked the wherewithal to do much, without the groundservice peeps to support him.

Chocoholic123

So OP has now received:

15000 avios (pure goodwill)
£200 for taxi fare from Belfast to Dublin
Full airfare refund

Is OP eligible for compensation under EU rules as well, as I have no doubt it took over 4 hours to reach Dublin from the expected arrival time. Or does full refund of airfare negate from entitlement to compensation?

Final 3 Greens

Littlegirl

I don't want to be patronising or rude, but I get that; I have held a pilot's licence for over quarter of a century and know about forecasts and departure decisions.

You're missing my point, which is that no airline would survive very long if they cancelled flights due to marginal weather, that is a privilege left to amateurs like me, but on the other hand forecasts are imprecise, strong winds are unpredictable, can abate, can intensify, back or veer and there is a high degree of uncertainty.

A steady wind of 45 knots straight down the runway maybe okay, a steady wind of 45 knots at 60 degree cross component may be within limits, but a gusting wind of 30-45 knots down the runway may destabilise the approach to the degree when no matter how good the pilot, s/he cannot achieve the parameters mandated for a safe approach and breaking off is the only option.

Just because the forecast suggests within limits at the time of arrival does not mean it will be on arrival and the history of the day should be factored in. It was obviously a wild day.

Thus a contingency plan is required, in my opinion and I am very surprised there wasn't one (if there wasn't one.)

Final 3 Greens

I guess he is also entitled to EU compo, as the flight was cancelled (never got to destination) and re-routing wasn't offered, so he got a refund. The compo would be for the cancellation and on top of the refund.

If it were me, I wouldn't be looking for compensation, though. I think the above is a reasonable outcome under the circumstances. That's just my view, though.

NickB

Actually, no: airlines do not necessarily have arrangements with all diversion airports their planes might end up at, whether for accommodating diversion passengers, refueling the aircraft, etc.... I do not know what makes you think that such arrangements exist. I think that people also underestimate the logistical costs of establishing such contingency arrangements everywhere.

You may regard it as unacceptable but it is, AFAIK, SOP in the industry.

Be careful of what you wish for: the likely outcome of what you suggest would have involved the flight returning to London. I suspect that a majority of the passengers on the DUB flight would, on the whole, prefer landing in BFS and finding their way home the same night rather than returning to London, queue to have a hotel allocated, spend 3 hours in a crummy travelodge near LHR, return to the airport early morning and fly to DUB eventually mid-morning, which is what would most likely have happened had the standards that you want been enforced compulsorily on the airline.

What do you expect the Captain to do? Become an expert in procuring coaches in a place they know nothing about when, by all acounts, no coaches were in fact available? Organise taxis for a plane-load of passengers? Do you think that this is part of the skills that pilots are trained for?
As somebody else has mentioned, the person I would expect to take charge in such a situation would be the BHD station manager, not the captain.

pomkiwi

My experience of two similar claims (in several years of travel with BA) has been similar - they will offer a large part of the claim but not the full amount. It is as though the are pleased to have 'saved' some money for the business but fail to realise that for many customers the annoyance about the portion of the claim refused may outweigh their gratitude for the portion received.

Littlegirl

I don't really know how to respond to you.

Are you wanting these contingency arrangements at every diversion airport that BA might land at throughout the World or just Belfast Internatinal Airport although of course, earlier in the evening Belfast Cuty would have been the diversion airport.

From what the OP said there were contingency plans, the staff would have used coaches but due to the fact that eleven other aircraft diverted into Belfast, that was no longer possible.

I am not a spokesperson for BA so please don't take my posts as anything other than an informed opinion.

Final 3 Greens

I think you miss the point again, with all due respect. I was in the Compass Centre on 9/11 and I watched the rolling news stories live, I saw the ops team calling the airfields in Canada to try to locate the diverted BA aircraft, I know that one 747 became a hotel for some days, as there were no rooms available in the area. They were caught by the unexpected. Under the circumstances, BA did a fantastic job, no argument.

Setting off to an airfield with actual weather that is marginal is another matter, as it is not too difficult to ask the question, 'what if the wx is out of limits, where do we go and how do we do it.'

May I just gently remind you that BA has obligations under EU261.

Contingency plans are exactly that, relying on unbooked coaches is not a contingency plan, with all due respect. There is a cost to contingency planning.

If the OPs story is accurate, I think it was a clear fail.

Just my opinion.

Final 3 Greens

Nick, are you saying that airlines do not have alternate airfields on their flight plans?

On the subject of an airborne return to LHR, as a pax, I'd accept that and I don't speak theoretically, it happened to me a few years ago, departure from Luton, encountered thunderstorms over northern France, low flow rate through gaps, had to return to Luton, bus to hotel, flight the next morning.

Although I wasn't a happy bunny (I needed to be in a meeting the next morning) I couldn't argue with the decision. The aircraft was met by a team of groundstaff who rebooked the flights and handed out hotel vouchers.

Although I speak French and would have been happy to be dropped off at Dieppe or somewhere, I could see that the decision made was rational and the airline took responsibility to look after the pax.