Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > British Airways | Executive Club
Reload this Page >

Outbound flight not taken, return cancelled?

Outbound flight not taken, return cancelled?

Reply

Old May 2, 19, 9:39 am
  #16  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: BA, Hilton
Posts: 874
Originally Posted by 1210mk2 View Post
Can anyone show me on BA.com where in writing it states that is you no show for outbound the return flight/entire booking is cancelled?

https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...ns-of-carriage

3c2 in the Conditions of Carriage would seem to cover it:

3c2) Your ticket is no longer valid if you do not use all the coupons in the sequence provided in the ticket. Where you change your travel without our agreement and the price for the resulting transportation you intend to undertake is greater than the price originally paid, you will be requested to pay the difference in price. Failure to pay the price applicable to your revised transportation will result in refusal of carriage.
I shall now withdraw and let the lawyers fight over whether such clauses are fair/enforceable/etc
nancypants and orbitmic like this.
BertieBadger is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 19, 9:42 am
  #17  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 80,263
IIRC there was a German court decision saying that this is not enforceable and flight coupons can be used in any order (although I don't understand how this would work with inflexible tickets). It doesn't seem to apply to the entire EU but might be applicable if your itinerary touches Germany, if you have a German address, or if the tickets were issued in Germany. IANAL.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 19, 10:20 am
  #18  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 619
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
IIRC there was a German court decision saying that this is not enforceable and flight coupons can be used in any order (although I don't understand how this would work with inflexible tickets). It doesn't seem to apply to the entire EU but might be applicable if your itinerary touches Germany, if you have a German address, or if the tickets were issued in Germany. IANAL.
The LH website now seems to allow you to choose whether you'd like a ticket that can be used out of sequence in a similar way the BA site allows you to choose whether you'd like flexibility. I've not had time to draw comparisons on the fares being quoted there but I'd be as bold as to suggest opting for a ticket that can be used out of sequence will cost more than one that cannot.
MSPeconomist likes this.
1Aturnleft is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 19, 10:34 am
  #19  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: coastal Croatia
Programs: BAEC gold, M&M FQTV
Posts: 1,873
Originally Posted by 1Aturnleft View Post
The LH website now seems to allow you to choose whether you'd like a ticket that can be used out of sequence in a similar way the BA site allows you to choose whether you'd like flexibility. I've not had time to draw comparisons on the fares being quoted there but I'd be as bold as to suggest opting for a ticket that can be used out of sequence will cost more than one that cannot.
I'm pretty sure that checking that box prices the itinerary as full fare one way tickets (YY fare basis) so you could then use them in any order. So for a Vienna-Frankfurt-Amsterdam return ticket, you're buying four separate flexible one ways. Even then, if you simply no-show without cancelling, I think you loose the value of that segment.
eefor jfp is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 19, 10:36 am
  #20  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Scotland
Programs: Warrant Card, BA Blue, PFOA
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by 1Aturnleft View Post
The LH website now seems to allow you to choose whether you'd like a ticket that can be used out of sequence in a similar way the BA site allows you to choose whether you'd like flexibility. I've not had time to draw comparisons on the fares being quoted there but I'd be as bold as to suggest opting for a ticket that can be used out of sequence will cost more than one that cannot.
I'm sure someone posted such a comparison with the out of sequence ticket double the price..
argonath is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 19, 11:24 am
  #21  
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GfL+CCR, Aclub Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 23,982
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
IIRC there was a German court decision saying that this is not enforceable and flight coupons can be used in any order (although I don't understand how this would work with inflexible tickets). It doesn't seem to apply to the entire EU but might be applicable if your itinerary touches Germany, if you have a German address, or if the tickets were issued in Germany. IANAL.
The court case also gave the airline the right to reprice the passenger's itinerary based on what he flew and the changes he operated. It is only the actual cancellation that was deemed disproportionate.
orbitmic is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 19, 1:13 pm
  #22  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 41,274
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
IIRC there was a German court decision saying that this is not enforceable and flight coupons can be used in any order (although I don't understand how this would work with inflexible tickets). It doesn't seem to apply to the entire EU but might be applicable if your itinerary touches Germany, if you have a German address, or if the tickets were issued in Germany. IANAL.
Not quite.

German courts have ruled that a carrier must offer to sell a ticket which does not require that the segments be flown in the order issued. However, the court expressly did not require that such tickets be sold at the same price. Thus, if you purchase from a German POS, you may purchase such a ticket. However, the pricing is generally astronomically higher than what standard tickets cost for the same route and otherwise same conditions. There may be some limited instances where purchasing one of these special tickets makes sense, but I have yet to find one.

Spain has recently suggested the same. However, the pricing issue is still fluid. But, nothing in the Spanish court decision appears to prohibit carriers from selling tickets with segment-skipping flexibility at a premium.

The bottom line is that this is an interesting academic debate with precious little value in the real world.
Often1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 19, 3:36 pm
  #23  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 1,804
Originally Posted by rossmacd View Post
They are well within their right to charge you for a full fare single, should you cancel the return sector. However, in reality, I would just no show for the return sector if I knew I was not going to take it, and not inform BA.
No, they aren’t. There is such crap peddled on this forum sometimes. If you no show for the return, which is what the question asked, then there is no penalty that BA can levy.
TabTraveller is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 19, 3:54 pm
  #24  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 25,698
Originally Posted by TabTraveller View Post
No, they aren’t. There is such crap peddled on this forum sometimes. If you no show for the return, which is what the question asked, then there is no penalty that BA can levy.
I am not saying they would tbh, but doesn't this condition say exactly that? Probably more relevant for long haul where a one way can easily be a lot more than booking a return and throwing the return leg away.

https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...ns-of-carriage

3c) Using flight coupons in the right sequence and changes in itinerary

3c1) Your ticket is valid only for the transportation shown on it from the place of departure through any agreed stopping places to the final place of destination. The fare you have paid is based on our tariff for the transportation shown on your ticket and forms part of your contract with us.

3c2) Your ticket is no longer valid if you do not use all the coupons in the sequence provided in the ticket. Where youchange your travel without our agreement and the price for the resulting transportation you intend to undertake is greater than the price originally paid, you will be requested to pay the difference in price. Failure to pay the price applicable to your revised transportation will result in refusal of carriage.
Often1 and nancypants like this.
KARFA is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 19, 4:30 pm
  #25  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: MSN
Programs: AA, BAEC Gold
Posts: 3,279
Originally Posted by TabTraveller View Post
No, they aren’t. There is such crap peddled on this forum sometimes. If you no show for the return, which is what the question asked, then there is no penalty that BA can levy.
The question asked in both the thread OP and the later post #15 seems to be "if you no show for a segment then are subsequent segments cancelled?"
MADPhil is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 19, 7:08 pm
  #26  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SYD, Australia
Programs: VA Silver, QF FF, Priority Club
Posts: 652
The problem is OP can’t “no show” at LAS as he will be “showing” in J!

BA may see he has 2 tickets on the same flight and cancel one of them.
JClasstraveller is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 2, 19, 7:17 pm
  #27  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 39,360
Originally Posted by eefor jfp View Post
I'm pretty sure that checking that box prices the itinerary as full fare one way tickets (YY fare basis) so you could then use them in any order. So for a Vienna-Frankfurt-Amsterdam return ticket, you're buying four separate flexible one ways. Even then, if you simply no-show without cancelling, I think you loose the value of that segment.
There are no YY fares anymore
Dave Noble is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 19, 1:12 am
  #28  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 1,804
Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
I am not saying they would tbh, but doesn't this condition say exactly that? Probably more relevant for long haul where a one way can easily be a lot more than booking a return and throwing the return leg away.

https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...ns-of-carriage
There would be no resulting transportation though, would there?
TabTraveller is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 19, 1:17 am
  #29  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 25,698
Originally Posted by TabTraveller View Post
There would be no resulting transportation though, would there?
The resulting transportation from your change is the one way vs the return you originally booked.

i don’t want to descend in to a protracted legal argument as this one has been done to death many times wrt to missing the last leg, but I think to say there is absolutely no right for ba to do it has a degree of certainty not supported by the facts
KARFA is online now  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread