RedVee

I've a Do in the off-ing - some people seem to make a habit of getting suspended in the weeks leading up to a Do

uk1

Firstly, thank you for not over-reacting to my reply which I appreciate and reminds me somewhat of how things use to be. Genuine Thanks.

I see what Raffles and FT does generally is making the most of what is there and using it optimally. If a company is generous enough to offer a set of circumstances that gives me a bargain then I'm all for it.

I'm somewhat aligned to the earlier comment of following what you know is honest .... and I'd add "honourable". It is my experience that those that do what is both honest and honourable get the most out of life over the longer run.

Thanks again for not starting a war ......

Raffles

The blog has a line which I do not cross.

That line is, interestingly, far higher than the line I draw for myself. However, doing something myself (and being happy to take responsibility for it) is different to recommending that 1,000 other people do the same thing.

This is especially true when 95% of those 1,000 people have less experience than me of what I am describing.

(Historically, someone would wake up one day, decide to take miles more seriously, do a bit of googling, find FT and join. Depending on what they google, that person now finds their way to Head for Points first and then across to FT later. I therefore feel some moral responsibility to these people!)

As an example, I did push the FB status match and even explained how to get around the residence restriction. However, since getting an FB match would encourage an individual to fly FB more, I had no problem with it. I do not, however, give step-by-step instructions on how to use Photoshop to change a scan of a Silver BA card into a Gold one, neither did I even suggest it as an idea. If Flying Blue was offering 50,000 free miles along with the status match - miles would have incurred a heavy cost for them - then I probably wouldn't have encouraged people to do the match at all unless they genuinely qualified.

I have also never encouraged people to drop last legs (I don't think) since I do know people who BA have approached for the extra money. Even worse, BA will bill the travel agent if the ticket was not booked directly, which means someone else would get fined. That really isn't on.

I have also, on a separate note, always encouraged people to see this as a long-term game. This is my 10th year on FT and probably my 15th of being serious about miles.

At the end of the day, there are only a handful of key players - BA, Tesco, Amex are tier 1, if you like. If any of them decide to ban you from their programmes for life for abuse, then you are stuffed. It simply isn't worth it.

Marcusm

Only a short time ago, Keith Williams (current CEO of British Airways) was the Head of Tax at BA (before becoming CFO). I'm sure he does not have any issue with members obtaining the maximum permissible value from BAEC!

ColdWalker

I'm genuinely not sure which thread you are referring to, so can categorically say I was not referring to that thread! The post I was referring to was made by a 'senior' member of the board in a thread that is still very much alive, but that's not really important. It would be a shame if this thread went the same way though, so if we can avoid whatever led to that thread being shut down it would be great

Fascinating responses so far. I like the red face test, except I don't easily get embarrassed! And even the honesty test seems far from clear cut.

pianoamit

I'm sorry, but if Costa want to avoid paying at just like Starbucks, it could always move its tax residence elsewhere. The same goes for WHSmith&co. At the end if the day, lower costs overall (operating, and tax as well) create a favourable environment for the consumer.

kanderson1965

If every company were to adopt the same strategy where would the tax revenue to provide public services come from. If companies wish to have the privilege to trade in the UK they should have to pay their share of the UK tax burden. No one is forcing them to make profits over here.

Land-of-Miles

^ indeed!

itsmeitisss

I wonder what taxes would go up for the rest of us to recover the lost revenue. That's not so good for the consumer. There have been many UK registered companies that have gone out of business partially thanks to online business registered so that they can avoid tax in the UK. Reduced choice = reduced competition= bad for consumers.

If you seriously think that the likes of Amazon exist to satisfy their consumers, you are mistaken. They exist to maximise profit.

PITBULL1K

I'm sorry but this somewhat bogus to say the least - Starbucks are not creating a favourable environment for the consumer, if they were prices would be considerably lower and I would not get ripped off buying a cup of mouthwash known as Tazo tea.

Sixth Freedom

Agreed ... but a good company (like Amazon) recognises that satisfying their customers is an excellent way to maximise profits!

PITBULL1K

As for loopholes, define loophole...my favourites in the past have been on UA when i flew to the states up to twice a month for a couple of years. Are these unethical to take advantage of:

- for 10 months, I found that booking a certain low fare bucket and upgrading with certs ( which was allowed then) resulted in the ticket being reclassed to higher fare bucket resulting in both higher std miles and tons of promo miles based on the new booking class

- my favourite, which took a while before it was fixed, is harder to explain. Suffice to say, the system let you upgrade a transatlantic flight with an onward connection in the US and only get a domestic upgrade charged to your account. It didnt work all the time but, when it did, it meant the international upgrade coupons could be used multiple times in practice.

Looking back, the first was prob an unintended consequence of bad programming which must have benefitted a few people but may have been limited. Who knows? The second took a bit of manipulation, found by accident. It only really failed when an observant check in agent overruled the system. I must add that I didn't do it all the time!

Systems and rules have changed over the years. I've used, still do, use the euro loophole. First time a few years ago, I was a euro cheat for 4 months before gaining gold normally and going on to earn 3000 tier points that year. I don't think BA lost out, and it did mean I moved away from Star. Although to date, United is the only airline to ever send me a Christmas present so I don't think they minded too much either.

I must admit though that I told very few people and did not publish them on FT either, so perhaps benefitting and not sharing a loophole is more unethical....

Wozza2404

Now that's an interesting point.

When something gets reported on FT, it doesn't last long. Whether it's the recent Amex MR glitch, jumbo fares, CC promo errors, etc.

I've seen a phrase used a few times, both on this board and off it; "Flyertalk - Where deals go to die."

A prime example of this was the first round of RGN fares (for those that dont know, this involved flying from RGN to Canada in J/F on numerous airlines, including SQ F suites, for under £400 one way. Occasionally as low as £50 one way). I was reading about this on an Australian FF forum for a good month before it appeared on FT, and people were flying these fares. Once it was posted on FT, bookings from RGN increased by such a ridiculous % the airlines looked at it and pulled all fares from RGN within 24hrs or so, until they fixed it. As it happens they didn't fix it well, as there were two more opportunities to purchase these fares, but the fact remains that they were available for 4 weeks or so, and then were gone within 24 hours of being on FT.

I'm not knocking this, as there are loads of loopholes and deals that I would not have been privy to without being on FT. Having said that, there is a little bit of "keep it to yourself" on the boards with regard to certain fares as people are concerned they'll be pulled if too much light is shed upon them.

I think Pitbull1K has made a good point there. I'd be interested to see a thread on "To post or not to post" when deals are found, and the question of ethics regarding this.

BOH

Wasn't the BAH-DOH-BAH trick a very good loophole that being published on FT probably killed? IIRC, something like 60 TP's each way for a very cheap fare meant Gold or Silver status could be gained very easily?

ColdWalker

I'm not sure I should have used tax loopholes as a parallel! We probably ought to stick to BAEC peops given this is a BA forum.