The BA Compensation Thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004 [2013 archive]
#77
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,351
BA should pay you:
75% of the total money you transferred to BA for the ticket (Taxes for CW return tickets 2 Adults, 1 child)
AND
150,000 miles (75% of the total miles spent on the ticket)
AND
€1800 (assuming you arrived home >4 hours late)
Your 2-4-1 probably won't come back.
75% of the total money you transferred to BA for the ticket (Taxes for CW return tickets 2 Adults, 1 child)
AND
150,000 miles (75% of the total miles spent on the ticket)
AND
€1800 (assuming you arrived home >4 hours late)
Your 2-4-1 probably won't come back.
While, if pushed, I would probably agree with the solution you reached, there is, imo, room for discussion here and I would not bet money on the outcome of any litigation on this.
It is also highly unclear, imo, how the 2-4-1 issue should be addressed under the Reg.
#78
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 150
Not so fast. While I can certainly see how that conclusion can be reached, I can also see how BA might want to argue that the offer of a flight two days later in CW constitutes compliance with their Reg 261/2004 obligations and that the decision to go for the Virgin flight constitutes a voluntary change by the passenger that does not attract downgrade compensation.
While, if pushed, I would probably agree with the solution you reached, there is, imo, room for discussion here and I would not bet money on the outcome of any litigation on this.
It is also highly unclear, imo, how the 2-4-1 issue should be addressed under the Reg.
While, if pushed, I would probably agree with the solution you reached, there is, imo, room for discussion here and I would not bet money on the outcome of any litigation on this.
It is also highly unclear, imo, how the 2-4-1 issue should be addressed under the Reg.
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,351
Q5 of post 4 touches on the issue to some extent. Short answer is: we don't know. We do not even know for sure whether offering a flight on another airline is even required by the Reg. All the arguments that you make are arguments that I would put forward if litigating the issue but if you are looking for a clear and certain answer, there simply is not one for the time being.
#80
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: On the underground
Programs: BMI Dimond club, BA Executive Club
Posts: 462
They have given me 5000 Avois. Should I take it or should I be looking for more? I noted off the website that 5k of points if you want to buy them is Ł95 which was the cost of the flight but should I be pushing for the whole €250?
#81
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,351
What was the reason for the delay? If there are no ExtCircs, I would insist for the €250.
Incidentally, I would not go by the price at which they sell avios to determine their value. As a rough rule of thumb, I would value avios at about Ł.0.01/avios, and therefore 5000 avios at somewhere in the region of Ł50. What they have offered you has a value of less than a quarter of what they should pay you if there are no ExtCircs (and moreover it is not cash, therefore less liquid).
Incidentally, I would not go by the price at which they sell avios to determine their value. As a rough rule of thumb, I would value avios at about Ł.0.01/avios, and therefore 5000 avios at somewhere in the region of Ł50. What they have offered you has a value of less than a quarter of what they should pay you if there are no ExtCircs (and moreover it is not cash, therefore less liquid).
#82
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: On the underground
Programs: BMI Dimond club, BA Executive Club
Posts: 462
The cause of the delay is quite a list:
It started with a delay of the crew getting into Heathrow as the crew had to transfer from T5 to T1
Once on the plane in Heathrow they had to go back to the stand due to a tech issue.
They got into the air and they were 2 hours 20 minutes late into Dublin. Now once at Dublin they turned the plane around quicker than Ryanair to get us all back to London.
But once on the plane there was a missing passenger with a bag in the hold so that was needed to be found.
Once they found the bag the captain came on to say that the flight path was now up and would need to apply for a new one. Which we got very quickly and we finally pushed off.
We then stayed on the tarmac for 3 hours due to a air pressure problem ( back to the stand, engineers onboard etc etc.)
We got into London 5 hours 1 minute late at 2am which meant that I had to get a taxi home at my own expense as there was no public transport.
It seems to me that most of it was a BA issue?
It started with a delay of the crew getting into Heathrow as the crew had to transfer from T5 to T1
Once on the plane in Heathrow they had to go back to the stand due to a tech issue.
They got into the air and they were 2 hours 20 minutes late into Dublin. Now once at Dublin they turned the plane around quicker than Ryanair to get us all back to London.
But once on the plane there was a missing passenger with a bag in the hold so that was needed to be found.
Once they found the bag the captain came on to say that the flight path was now up and would need to apply for a new one. Which we got very quickly and we finally pushed off.
We then stayed on the tarmac for 3 hours due to a air pressure problem ( back to the stand, engineers onboard etc etc.)
We got into London 5 hours 1 minute late at 2am which meant that I had to get a taxi home at my own expense as there was no public transport.
It seems to me that most of it was a BA issue?
#83
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1
Big delay on Singapore to Heathrow flight
Our flight from SIN to LHR was delayed by 14 1/2 hours from December 11 2012 23.00 to Dec 12, 13.30 - we were notified by an email received at 23:43 GMT on Dec 10 (= 7.43 on Dec 11, Singapore time) as follows:
"Dear Customer,
Flight BA12 on 11 Dec/SIN - is delayed until 12:00
local time 12DEC due to the late arrival of the inbound aircraft. BA
apologises.
Yours sincerely,
British Airways Customer Service"
In fact it eventually departed SIN at 13:30.
We received a sheet of paper at SIN from BA repeating the reason, i.e. "late arrival of the inbound aircraft from London Heathrow". We were informed orally that there had been a problem with the aircraft.
We had to stay overnight in a Singapore hotel, and BA refunded us for that.
Do you think we have a case for compensation?
Should we apply, and see what ensues, or should we attempt to determine if there were "extraordinary circumstances"? (and how?).
We would appreciate your comments.
Thanks in anticipation.
"Dear Customer,
Flight BA12 on 11 Dec/SIN - is delayed until 12:00
local time 12DEC due to the late arrival of the inbound aircraft. BA
apologises.
Yours sincerely,
British Airways Customer Service"
In fact it eventually departed SIN at 13:30.
We received a sheet of paper at SIN from BA repeating the reason, i.e. "late arrival of the inbound aircraft from London Heathrow". We were informed orally that there had been a problem with the aircraft.
We had to stay overnight in a Singapore hotel, and BA refunded us for that.
Do you think we have a case for compensation?
Should we apply, and see what ensues, or should we attempt to determine if there were "extraordinary circumstances"? (and how?).
We would appreciate your comments.
Thanks in anticipation.
#84
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
Programs: BA Silver, EI Silver, HH Gold, BW Gold, ABP, Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci
Posts: 14,177
Welcome to FlyerTalk!
The matter, as with many others, will come down to whether the delay can be attributed to extraordinary circumstances which could not have been prevented with reasonable precautions. Rulings to date have been that tech issues have often not been considered to fit within this exclusion. Therefore you may well have a reasonable claim for €600 each, plus meals during your wait (you have already had your accommodation covered, quite properly). Please do let us know how you get on.
The matter, as with many others, will come down to whether the delay can be attributed to extraordinary circumstances which could not have been prevented with reasonable precautions. Rulings to date have been that tech issues have often not been considered to fit within this exclusion. Therefore you may well have a reasonable claim for €600 each, plus meals during your wait (you have already had your accommodation covered, quite properly). Please do let us know how you get on.
#85
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,351
The cause of the delay is quite a list:
It started with a delay of the crew getting into Heathrow as the crew had to transfer from T5 to T1
Once on the plane in Heathrow they had to go back to the stand due to a tech issue.
They got into the air and they were 2 hours 20 minutes late into Dublin. Now once at Dublin they turned the plane around quicker than Ryanair to get us all back to London.
But once on the plane there was a missing passenger with a bag in the hold so that was needed to be found.
Once they found the bag the captain came on to say that the flight path was now up and would need to apply for a new one. Which we got very quickly and we finally pushed off.
We then stayed on the tarmac for 3 hours due to a air pressure problem ( back to the stand, engineers onboard etc etc.)
We got into London 5 hours 1 minute late at 2am which meant that I had to get a taxi home at my own expense as there was no public transport.
It seems to me that most of it was a BA issue?
It started with a delay of the crew getting into Heathrow as the crew had to transfer from T5 to T1
Once on the plane in Heathrow they had to go back to the stand due to a tech issue.
They got into the air and they were 2 hours 20 minutes late into Dublin. Now once at Dublin they turned the plane around quicker than Ryanair to get us all back to London.
But once on the plane there was a missing passenger with a bag in the hold so that was needed to be found.
Once they found the bag the captain came on to say that the flight path was now up and would need to apply for a new one. Which we got very quickly and we finally pushed off.
We then stayed on the tarmac for 3 hours due to a air pressure problem ( back to the stand, engineers onboard etc etc.)
We got into London 5 hours 1 minute late at 2am which meant that I had to get a taxi home at my own expense as there was no public transport.
It seems to me that most of it was a BA issue?
#86
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,351
Our flight from SIN to LHR was delayed by 14 1/2 hours from December 11 2012 23.00 to Dec 12, 13.30 - we were notified by an email received at 23:43 GMT on Dec 10 (= 7.43 on Dec 11, Singapore time) as follows:
"Dear Customer,
Flight BA12 on 11 Dec/SIN - is delayed until 12:00
local time 12DEC due to the late arrival of the inbound aircraft. BA
apologises.
Yours sincerely,
British Airways Customer Service"
In fact it eventually departed SIN at 13:30.
We received a sheet of paper at SIN from BA repeating the reason, i.e. "late arrival of the inbound aircraft from London Heathrow". We were informed orally that there had been a problem with the aircraft.
We had to stay overnight in a Singapore hotel, and BA refunded us for that.
Do you think we have a case for compensation?
Should we apply, and see what ensues, or should we attempt to determine if there were "extraordinary circumstances"? (and how?).
We would appreciate your comments.
Thanks in anticipation.
"Dear Customer,
Flight BA12 on 11 Dec/SIN - is delayed until 12:00
local time 12DEC due to the late arrival of the inbound aircraft. BA
apologises.
Yours sincerely,
British Airways Customer Service"
In fact it eventually departed SIN at 13:30.
We received a sheet of paper at SIN from BA repeating the reason, i.e. "late arrival of the inbound aircraft from London Heathrow". We were informed orally that there had been a problem with the aircraft.
We had to stay overnight in a Singapore hotel, and BA refunded us for that.
Do you think we have a case for compensation?
Should we apply, and see what ensues, or should we attempt to determine if there were "extraordinary circumstances"? (and how?).
We would appreciate your comments.
Thanks in anticipation.
Oh, and welcome to FT!
#87
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2
Another Interesting 261/2004 Question
Hello all
I'm new to the forum and I've been reading lots of different threads with interest, but can't seem to find an answer. The question I have is not BA related, but could well apply to BA (in theory). So apologies in advance for posting in here... but you guys seem to know your stuff!
The flight was Ethihad so not an EU airline. On one booking it was Abu Dhabi to Manchester and then Manchester to Inverness. Manchester to Inverness was operated by Flybe. The Abu Dhabi to Manchester leg was delayed by 8hours meaning the Manchester to Inverness connection was missed. Can EU 261/2004 apply for a claim against Flybe?
I guessed probably not, but does anyone else have a view?
Many thanks in advance.
I'm new to the forum and I've been reading lots of different threads with interest, but can't seem to find an answer. The question I have is not BA related, but could well apply to BA (in theory). So apologies in advance for posting in here... but you guys seem to know your stuff!
The flight was Ethihad so not an EU airline. On one booking it was Abu Dhabi to Manchester and then Manchester to Inverness. Manchester to Inverness was operated by Flybe. The Abu Dhabi to Manchester leg was delayed by 8hours meaning the Manchester to Inverness connection was missed. Can EU 261/2004 apply for a claim against Flybe?
I guessed probably not, but does anyone else have a view?
Many thanks in advance.
#88
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
Programs: BA Silver, EI Silver, HH Gold, BW Gold, ABP, Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci
Posts: 14,177
No. Flights that are on non-EU airlines only attract compensation if the flight departs an EU airport, and the MAN-INV flight was not delayed.
You should of course have been rebooked to the next available FlyMayBe flight to INV, without charge.
You should of course have been rebooked to the next available FlyMayBe flight to INV, without charge.
#89
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,475
Welcome divito
I'm new to the forum and I've been reading lots of different threads with interest, but can't seem to find an answer. The question I have is not BA related, but could well apply to BA (in theory). So apologies in advance for posting in here... but you guys seem to know your stuff!
And I'm sorry but I am as certain as I can be that you won't have a good claim here. One disadvantage of flying non EU airlines is that they are not beholden to these standards (they are in the other direction leaving the EU) and perhaps unsurprisingly they act accordingly. Or rather, just like EU airlines did before the consumer protection arrived.
#90
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 26
Hi team,
Currently sat in the ba lounge terminal 3 waiting for the delayed ba 662 to Larnaca. Original departure time was 0840 with a new time set at 1155. The reason given at the gate and in the lounge was a lack of crew. Would eu261 apply here?
Thanks!
Currently sat in the ba lounge terminal 3 waiting for the delayed ba 662 to Larnaca. Original departure time was 0840 with a new time set at 1155. The reason given at the gate and in the lounge was a lack of crew. Would eu261 apply here?
Thanks!