BA Apologists - Why the need to defend BA?
Dec 10, 2011, 4:07 pm
#61
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Dec 10, 2011, 4:25 pm
#62
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Or is it just that the US based posters have seemingly been the most vocal about the recent BAEC changes (because arguably they have been most affected)?
I'd say that it's the latter.
Dec 10, 2011, 4:29 pm
#63
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We almost made it a month without the board having another existential crisis. 
Dec 10, 2011, 4:34 pm
#64
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There really aren't as many BA apologists as the OP thinks. Rather, there is a handful of folks who dominate a lot of the BA discussions, some of whom seem to spend their lives on FT tossing out 10 or more posts a day, most of which offer little but sarcasm.
Those who want a balanced analysis of BA and other airlines would spend their time better reading some of the blogs which discuss these matters and which compare real terms, routes, benefits and detriments.
Topspin is cute, but only to a point.
Those who want a balanced analysis of BA and other airlines would spend their time better reading some of the blogs which discuss these matters and which compare real terms, routes, benefits and detriments.
Topspin is cute, but only to a point.
Dec 10, 2011, 4:44 pm
#65
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I think you're being a bit tough on the beneficiaries of the Chase mile promo. Although their posts post Avios have been rather sarcastic I have to say.
Dec 10, 2011, 5:04 pm
#66
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If I may indulge and offer my tuppence...
I think one of the reasons why some people become defensive of BA is when the thread involves hyperbole with use of terms such as "disgraceful", "disgusting" etc, when the problem is in fact fairly minor.
In other words, defensiveness can be a reaction to how they read the post, and possibly what they consider 'unfair criticism' of BA. It's not that they do not think what happened is wrong, or that BA did not do anything wrong, but the strength of reaction to what went wrong ends up sending people on the defensive.
The trouble is that when someone has become angry with what has happened to them and post in the heat of the moment, it may be quite strongly worded, which some people may find too strong. The responder may well be quite critical of BA him/herself but somehow ends up defending BA due to their being unfairly strongly criticised.
Overall, things usually balance themselves, with strong negatively being countered by strong support? I am not saying that the reaction is right, and I sometimes do feel sorry for newbies who come here in an angry state to have a vent, to be met by a barrage of defences.
But after all, it's just an Internet forum. Sometimes words do not transmit so well because we cannot convey tones or intonations etc. Sometimes things sound worse than they really are. Maybe those 'hyperboles' aren't meant to be hyperboles - or understandable given the immediacy of internet forums that people post when they are feeling very angry.
I think we all know that BA isn't perfect. Nothing in life is perfect. But maybe we sometimes react a bit strongly to a strong criticism of BA.
Maybe we just need to be a bit more understanding of where the critiques are coming from and try to offer support where we can (often, an angry poster actually is seeking assistance or suggestions, when they do calm down), rather than going on a defensive.
I think one of the reasons why some people become defensive of BA is when the thread involves hyperbole with use of terms such as "disgraceful", "disgusting" etc, when the problem is in fact fairly minor.
In other words, defensiveness can be a reaction to how they read the post, and possibly what they consider 'unfair criticism' of BA. It's not that they do not think what happened is wrong, or that BA did not do anything wrong, but the strength of reaction to what went wrong ends up sending people on the defensive.
The trouble is that when someone has become angry with what has happened to them and post in the heat of the moment, it may be quite strongly worded, which some people may find too strong. The responder may well be quite critical of BA him/herself but somehow ends up defending BA due to their being unfairly strongly criticised.
Overall, things usually balance themselves, with strong negatively being countered by strong support? I am not saying that the reaction is right, and I sometimes do feel sorry for newbies who come here in an angry state to have a vent, to be met by a barrage of defences.
But after all, it's just an Internet forum. Sometimes words do not transmit so well because we cannot convey tones or intonations etc. Sometimes things sound worse than they really are. Maybe those 'hyperboles' aren't meant to be hyperboles - or understandable given the immediacy of internet forums that people post when they are feeling very angry.
I think we all know that BA isn't perfect. Nothing in life is perfect. But maybe we sometimes react a bit strongly to a strong criticism of BA.
Maybe we just need to be a bit more understanding of where the critiques are coming from and try to offer support where we can (often, an angry poster actually is seeking assistance or suggestions, when they do calm down), rather than going on a defensive.
Dec 10, 2011, 5:14 pm
#67
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In my opinion it's more to do with expectations then anything else. The British Airways product has always been good, and at one time was a leading product, and this product hasn't changed greatly in recent years. It remains a good product.
However, various different airlines around the world are upping the game and offering various different additions from full service spa's that are available without bookings, chaffeurs in all airports, state of the art IFE, wi-fi onboard, modern aircraft, first suites, A380 aircraft, proper business class seating and service on domestic and short-medium haul services, larger beds in business/club, superior food and goodies in economy, etc etc which some people may becoming accustomed to, or feel is what they prefer. Whether these airlines can sustain profit with all these services longterm without being subsidised remains to be seen.
As far as customer service goes, yes on the Middle Eastern airlines you tend to get younger asian crew that tend to be more subserviant. A lot of the European and American airlines including British Airways have crew that have probably spent so much time dealing with the public that eventually I think you start to lose patience and understanding with, and possibly always look for the negatives in the passengers coming onboard.
So essentially, has British Airways gone downhill? I don't think so, I don't think it's changed much in the last 10 years or so, but expectations of passengers has changed a lot.
However, various different airlines around the world are upping the game and offering various different additions from full service spa's that are available without bookings, chaffeurs in all airports, state of the art IFE, wi-fi onboard, modern aircraft, first suites, A380 aircraft, proper business class seating and service on domestic and short-medium haul services, larger beds in business/club, superior food and goodies in economy, etc etc which some people may becoming accustomed to, or feel is what they prefer. Whether these airlines can sustain profit with all these services longterm without being subsidised remains to be seen.
As far as customer service goes, yes on the Middle Eastern airlines you tend to get younger asian crew that tend to be more subserviant. A lot of the European and American airlines including British Airways have crew that have probably spent so much time dealing with the public that eventually I think you start to lose patience and understanding with, and possibly always look for the negatives in the passengers coming onboard.
So essentially, has British Airways gone downhill? I don't think so, I don't think it's changed much in the last 10 years or so, but expectations of passengers has changed a lot.
Dec 10, 2011, 6:13 pm
#68
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Dec 10, 2011, 6:59 pm
#69
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I have lurked on FT for quite a long time but joined only recently. This is a great forum and I enjoy it and have learned a lot from it. I like flying BA and recently had a great flight with them (which I commented upon in a thread on here).
I do notice the defensiveness, though. Normally it is just amusing. Sometimes it borders on paranoia. I have got involved in two recent threads where I thought this reached silly levels (e.g. calling someone a DYKWIA for wanting the turndown service in First!). And, slightly contrary to what the OP says, there is a predictable list of characters with predictable opinions. On occasion one feels that their ears are shut to legitimate criticism.
As I mentioned in another thread earlier today, we don't tend to doubt people who praise BA, but some people who make seemingly reasonable complaints can be subjected to a real grilling. I accept that there may have been spurious or false complaints in the past, but it is not great if representatives of a company (and if you identify yourself as staff then you ARE a representative, whether on duty or off) become excessively prickly when their employer is being criticised and then flounce off when engaged in an argument. On occasion it has almost been implied that one should not post complaints here and simply deal with BA direct instead!
I don't intend to offend anyone here -- I just wish we could all take the rough with the smooth.
I do notice the defensiveness, though. Normally it is just amusing. Sometimes it borders on paranoia. I have got involved in two recent threads where I thought this reached silly levels (e.g. calling someone a DYKWIA for wanting the turndown service in First!). And, slightly contrary to what the OP says, there is a predictable list of characters with predictable opinions. On occasion one feels that their ears are shut to legitimate criticism.
As I mentioned in another thread earlier today, we don't tend to doubt people who praise BA, but some people who make seemingly reasonable complaints can be subjected to a real grilling. I accept that there may have been spurious or false complaints in the past, but it is not great if representatives of a company (and if you identify yourself as staff then you ARE a representative, whether on duty or off) become excessively prickly when their employer is being criticised and then flounce off when engaged in an argument. On occasion it has almost been implied that one should not post complaints here and simply deal with BA direct instead!
I don't intend to offend anyone here -- I just wish we could all take the rough with the smooth.
Dec 10, 2011, 7:11 pm
#70
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I will read this whole thread tomorrow... Am I a BA apologist... no, do i like BA, yes... like every big organization that really cares (not At&T et al) sometimes that do it well and other times they suck...nature of the beast...we live in a mutli functionale world.. where you and I really don't matter as individuals. NO.. but as collective YES... our dineros do.. and there is where we matter...
This is how sadly the world works.
This is how sadly the world works.
Dec 10, 2011, 7:16 pm
#71
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There have been posts indicating the airline is British and should therefore serve British people first (and Americans second). Posts lambasting the American Airlines bankruptcy with innuendo about America being owned by China. These are just a couple of examples. While these posts are certainly the minority, the fact that there are enough people who feel comfortable expressing these sorts of opinions on the forum says something about the forum culture to me.
Dec 10, 2011, 7:17 pm
#72
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I have lurked on FT for quite a long time but joined only recently. This is a great forum and I enjoy it and have learned a lot from it. I like flying BA and recently had a great flight with them (which I commented upon in a thread on here).
I do notice the defensiveness, though. Normally it is just amusing. Sometimes it borders on paranoia. I have got involved in two recent threads where I thought this reached silly levels (e.g. calling someone a DYKWIA for wanting the turndown service in First!). And, slightly contrary to what the OP says, there is a predictable list of characters with predictable opinions. On occasion one feels that their ears are shut to legitimate criticism.
As I mentioned in another thread earlier today, we don't tend to doubt people who praise BA, but some people who make seemingly reasonable complaints can be subjected to a real grilling. I accept that there may have been spurious or false complaints in the past, but it is not great if representatives of a company (and if you identify yourself as staff then you ARE a representative, whether on duty or off) become excessively prickly when their employer is being criticised and then flounce off when engaged in an argument. On occasion it has almost been implied that one should not post complaints here and simply deal with BA direct instead!
I don't intend to offend anyone here -- I just wish we could all take the rough with the smooth.
I do notice the defensiveness, though. Normally it is just amusing. Sometimes it borders on paranoia. I have got involved in two recent threads where I thought this reached silly levels (e.g. calling someone a DYKWIA for wanting the turndown service in First!). And, slightly contrary to what the OP says, there is a predictable list of characters with predictable opinions. On occasion one feels that their ears are shut to legitimate criticism.
As I mentioned in another thread earlier today, we don't tend to doubt people who praise BA, but some people who make seemingly reasonable complaints can be subjected to a real grilling. I accept that there may have been spurious or false complaints in the past, but it is not great if representatives of a company (and if you identify yourself as staff then you ARE a representative, whether on duty or off) become excessively prickly when their employer is being criticised and then flounce off when engaged in an argument. On occasion it has almost been implied that one should not post complaints here and simply deal with BA direct instead!
I don't intend to offend anyone here -- I just wish we could all take the rough with the smooth.
Dec 10, 2011, 7:22 pm
#73
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Dec 10, 2011, 7:23 pm
#74
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The SE1 based feather duster has been at work in this thread. A gentle reminder that FT is a broad church and we should all respect that diversity. A link to the relevant section of the rules for your reference
http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#q67
And in advance, could I ask we continue to avoid making this debate personal? There are some fascinating points being made in a largely constructive and thoughtful manner and it would be a shame to lose the chance to debate.
Swanhunter
Moderator, BAEC
http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#q67
And in advance, could I ask we continue to avoid making this debate personal? There are some fascinating points being made in a largely constructive and thoughtful manner and it would be a shame to lose the chance to debate.
Swanhunter
Moderator, BAEC
Good god Swan, can and would you ever allow us a life outside of this forum where we don't feel punished to have a life and miss something.... just like those censors..what the heck have I missed?????
Dec 10, 2011, 7:28 pm
#75
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