Airmiles changes [separate discussion from BAEC changes]
Sep 1, 2011, 8:58 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tonbridge
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 2,034
Airmiles changes [separate discussion from BAEC changes]
The other thread started by Nicci is very much focused on the changes to the BAEC programme becoming AVIOS. I'd like to have a separate thread to discuss the changes to Airmiles as it becomes AVIOS.
The main impacts I noticed -
- The miles cost has increased on many short haul routes (including domestic), although some destinations have moved to a lower band (e.g Prague).
- There is now a cash cost on Euro redemptions, although it isn't too bad.
- Long haul redemptions now have to pay full taxes and surcharges, a big negative.
- Long haul business class is now much better (previously was triple miles, now only double).
For collectors that kept both airmiles and miles (so had access to affordable long haul premium redemptions through BAEC), this is definitely a turn for the worse.
The main questions I have though are this -
- Will redemptions still be possible in non-award fare buckets. If not this will result in a massive drop in redemption availability for former Airmiles holders.
This would also mean the loss of tier points and miles earning on Airmiles redemptions as well.
The main impacts I noticed -
- The miles cost has increased on many short haul routes (including domestic), although some destinations have moved to a lower band (e.g Prague).
- There is now a cash cost on Euro redemptions, although it isn't too bad.
- Long haul redemptions now have to pay full taxes and surcharges, a big negative.
- Long haul business class is now much better (previously was triple miles, now only double).
For collectors that kept both airmiles and miles (so had access to affordable long haul premium redemptions through BAEC), this is definitely a turn for the worse.
The main questions I have though are this -
- Will redemptions still be possible in non-award fare buckets. If not this will result in a massive drop in redemption availability for former Airmiles holders.
This would also mean the loss of tier points and miles earning on Airmiles redemptions as well.
Sep 1, 2011, 9:16 am
#2
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 270
Well one of your questions is half-answered in the FAQ but with no details at all. 
Q: Can I still spend Avios on flights with the same airlines?
A: We're always looking at the airlines we work with to make sure we're giving you the biggest choice of destinations and flights possible, while saving you money on the price of the flight.
Avios will offer flights with British Airways, Iberia, Flybe, Monarch, Air Malta and lots of other airlines. See Avios.com for full details.
Of course, these flights will be subject to availability and to the Avios terms and conditions.
Q: Can I still spend Avios on flights with the same airlines?
A: We're always looking at the airlines we work with to make sure we're giving you the biggest choice of destinations and flights possible, while saving you money on the price of the flight.
Avios will offer flights with British Airways, Iberia, Flybe, Monarch, Air Malta and lots of other airlines. See Avios.com for full details.
Of course, these flights will be subject to availability and to the Avios terms and conditions.
Sep 1, 2011, 9:31 am
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
Nicci has confirmed in the main thread that you still pay only 1 lot of £27 in return taxes even if your flight includes a UK connection, which will soften the blow for some.
What is not clear is whether you need to pay full taxes if your flights are not on BA/IB.
What is not clear is whether you need to pay full taxes if your flights are not on BA/IB.
Sep 1, 2011, 9:45 am
#4
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newcastle, UK
Programs: BA Silver, IHG Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz 5*, Avis Preferred Plus, Amex Plat
Posts: 2,080
Also:
- one-way awards possible
- no surcharge for departures from the regions (not clear if this is just for BA/IB metal or for all)
- one-way awards possible
- no surcharge for departures from the regions (not clear if this is just for BA/IB metal or for all)
Sep 1, 2011, 9:55 am
#5
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newcastle, UK
Programs: BA Silver, IHG Gold, Hilton Gold, Hertz 5*, Avis Preferred Plus, Amex Plat
Posts: 2,080
Rules and regs for the
(Not helped by the fact that Avios is both the name of the currency, and the name that one, but not both, of the programmes is changing to
)
Sep 1, 2011, 11:04 am
#6
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 134
There is also the removal of the hated 'regional' supplement (which applied even when the flight was direct and shorter than flying from London!) and the ability to fly one-ways and not to have to originate in the UK.
Overall, AirMiles members come out by far the worst from this unification. The mileage rates were drastically increased in the last upheaval some years ago in order to include taxes and fees. Now they are re-introducing taxes and fees while keeping the mileage redemption rates broadly the same. No such increases have been made in the BA Executive Club scheme. Rather, over in that thread BAEC members are rubbing their hands in glee.
This is a further significant value dilution of the AirMiles scheme. I can understand the desire for simplification across three different schemes but Airmiles members have lost out unfairly here. They should have been given a conversion ratio of somewhere around 12 to 15 to 1 instead of 10 to 1 in order to maintain value.
Overall, AirMiles members come out by far the worst from this unification. The mileage rates were drastically increased in the last upheaval some years ago in order to include taxes and fees. Now they are re-introducing taxes and fees while keeping the mileage redemption rates broadly the same. No such increases have been made in the BA Executive Club scheme. Rather, over in that thread BAEC members are rubbing their hands in glee.
This is a further significant value dilution of the AirMiles scheme. I can understand the desire for simplification across three different schemes but Airmiles members have lost out unfairly here. They should have been given a conversion ratio of somewhere around 12 to 15 to 1 instead of 10 to 1 in order to maintain value.
Sep 1, 2011, 11:09 am
#7
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,969
For some of us it's excellent news.
Most of my European travel is planned ie not last minute and I have a stack of Star Alliance miles I use on a cash plus miles for C. So Airmiles tend to sit in my account unused.
The change in the scheme has effectively allowed me to bring my 20k Airmiles into BA where I can use it with an Amex 241. This effectively makes the 20k Airmiles = 400,000 BA miles.
Not bad.
Most of my European travel is planned ie not last minute and I have a stack of Star Alliance miles I use on a cash plus miles for C. So Airmiles tend to sit in my account unused.
The change in the scheme has effectively allowed me to bring my 20k Airmiles into BA where I can use it with an Amex 241. This effectively makes the 20k Airmiles = 400,000 BA miles.
Not bad.
Sep 1, 2011, 11:46 am
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,364
True, but given that avios can be will be transferable instantly from one programme to the other, it would make no sense to have one cost for redemptions in one programme that would differ from the cost of redemption in the other. I can very well imagine that some operations may only be done on one side (eg: you can only MFU via BAEC or, conversely, you can only redeem for non-BA flights via Avios) but the cost of identical operations that can be done on either side will surely be the same.
Sep 1, 2011, 12:19 pm
#12
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: BA Bronze, Hilton Gold, IHG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 454
I'm only seeing the negative here:
* LHR to UK Domestic, was 750 Airmiles + £0, now (equiv) 900 Airmiles + £27
* LHR to New York, was 5000 Airmiles + 0, now (equiv) 4000 Airmiles + £300.73
* LHR to SYD, was 1000 Airmiles + 0, now (equiv) 1000 Airmiles + £491.03
(taxes and charges taken from BA.com)
Airmiles's unique selling point was the ability to make economy redemptions and not be hit by excessive YQ or other "taxes and charges". On BA Miles, these were often higher than a full ticket.
What really grates is that they've done nothing to soften the impact of adding taxes / charges to all redemptions on the existing balances of miles. I valued 10 Airmiles as £1 "worth" of travel, meaning a UK Domestic redemption cost £75 "worth" of Airmiles. Exactly the same ticket now costs £117 "worth" of points and fees.
If the total cost of redeeming is now 56% higher, why aren't we getting 15 Avios for each Airmile rather than 10x? Then at least we'd be roughly even on our existing balances (mine saved for over 4 years).
Grrrrrrrr
* LHR to UK Domestic, was 750 Airmiles + £0, now (equiv) 900 Airmiles + £27
* LHR to New York, was 5000 Airmiles + 0, now (equiv) 4000 Airmiles + £300.73
* LHR to SYD, was 1000 Airmiles + 0, now (equiv) 1000 Airmiles + £491.03
(taxes and charges taken from BA.com)
Airmiles's unique selling point was the ability to make economy redemptions and not be hit by excessive YQ or other "taxes and charges". On BA Miles, these were often higher than a full ticket.
What really grates is that they've done nothing to soften the impact of adding taxes / charges to all redemptions on the existing balances of miles. I valued 10 Airmiles as £1 "worth" of travel, meaning a UK Domestic redemption cost £75 "worth" of Airmiles. Exactly the same ticket now costs £117 "worth" of points and fees.
If the total cost of redeeming is now 56% higher, why aren't we getting 15 Avios for each Airmile rather than 10x? Then at least we'd be roughly even on our existing balances (mine saved for over 4 years).
Grrrrrrrr
Last edited by ianwall; Sep 1, 2011 at 1:03 pm Reason: Typo (no of miles)
Sep 1, 2011, 12:25 pm
#13
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 134
I'm only seeing the negative here:
* LHR to UK Domestic, was 750 Airmiles + £0, now (equiv) 900 Airmiles + £27
* LHR to New York, was 5000 Airmiles + 0, now (equiv) 4000 Airmiles + £300.73
* LHR to SYD, was 1000 Airmiles + 0, now (equiv) 1000 Airmiles + £491.03
(taxes and charges taken from BA.com)
Airmiles's unique selling point was the ability to make economy redemptions and not be hit by excessive YQ or other "taxes and charges". On BA Miles, these were often higher than a full ticket.
What really grates is that they've done nothing to soften the impact of adding taxes / charges to all redemptions on the existing balances of miles. I valued 1 Airmile as £1 "worth" of travel, meaning a UK Domestic redemption cost £75 "worth" of Airmiles. Exactly the same ticket now costs £117 "worth" of points and fees.
If the total cost of redeeming is now 56% higher, why aren't we getting 15 Avios for each Airmile rather than 10x? Then at least we'd be roughly even on our existing balances (mine saved for over 4 years).
Grrrrrrrr
* LHR to UK Domestic, was 750 Airmiles + £0, now (equiv) 900 Airmiles + £27
* LHR to New York, was 5000 Airmiles + 0, now (equiv) 4000 Airmiles + £300.73
* LHR to SYD, was 1000 Airmiles + 0, now (equiv) 1000 Airmiles + £491.03
(taxes and charges taken from BA.com)
Airmiles's unique selling point was the ability to make economy redemptions and not be hit by excessive YQ or other "taxes and charges". On BA Miles, these were often higher than a full ticket.
What really grates is that they've done nothing to soften the impact of adding taxes / charges to all redemptions on the existing balances of miles. I valued 1 Airmile as £1 "worth" of travel, meaning a UK Domestic redemption cost £75 "worth" of Airmiles. Exactly the same ticket now costs £117 "worth" of points and fees.
If the total cost of redeeming is now 56% higher, why aren't we getting 15 Avios for each Airmile rather than 10x? Then at least we'd be roughly even on our existing balances (mine saved for over 4 years).
Grrrrrrrr
Sep 1, 2011, 1:00 pm
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 10,709
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/work...-avios-rebrand
Avios has made the Guardian blog. With their usual comments.
I am surprised they didnt say bankers.
Avios has made the Guardian blog. With their usual comments.
The changes come into effect on 16 November, so expect a rush of businessmen trying to cash in their trusty AirMiles before then.