What are your feelings about off duty CC being upgraded to Club whilst you remain in
Aug 15, 2011, 10:30 am
#31
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Surrey
Programs: BA Gold, Skywards Gold
Posts: 24
I was on a J ticket on EK trying to fly from DXB to LHR during the Volcanic ash fiasco last year.
I really needed to get back to the UK, so in the spirit of flexibility said that I would take any seat on the plane.
I got what I asked for, a seat in Y.
I was though a bit miffed to see J and Y with a complement of crew repositioning. As a paying customer I would have expected to be in a J seat ahead of crew.
Not worth making a big deal of it at the time though, as everybody on the plane was just pleased to be moving.
I really needed to get back to the UK, so in the spirit of flexibility said that I would take any seat on the plane.
I got what I asked for, a seat in Y.
I was though a bit miffed to see J and Y with a complement of crew repositioning. As a paying customer I would have expected to be in a J seat ahead of crew.
Not worth making a big deal of it at the time though, as everybody on the plane was just pleased to be moving.
Aug 15, 2011, 10:32 am
#32
Join Date: May 2010
Programs: Delta Silver, HH Gold, Accor Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 5,340
(This is from the Upgrading Rules section which is ignored anyway by KLM staff. If they can't find friends, friends' friends, or the owner of the mother of the dog of a friend's friend, they randomly upgrade people without looking at Elites. Or so I believe.)
Last edited by KLflyerRalph; Aug 15, 2011 at 10:37 am
Aug 15, 2011, 10:32 am
#33
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Earth
Programs: Proud owner of 3 Mucci's (yes, 3!) the latest being Chevaliere des Bains Chauds, BA Silver (6 yrs)
Posts: 10,985
I'm pleasantly suiprised by most of the responses here.
Staff are not upgraded for the sake of it and it's closely monitored so anybody upgrading without authority could find themselves in trouible.
Many long serving staff are entitled to travel in CW, space available of course. Other staff book and pay for a premium seat, and staff on duty (but not wearing) uniform often also have CW entitlement.
Like those in banking get perks of discounted mortgages, or those in retail get discounted purchasesm then staff at ailines get discounted travel.
That said there are numerous times when staff who've paid for a premuium seat end up on jump seats without getting a refund of the premium rate they've paid.
Staff are not upgraded for the sake of it and it's closely monitored so anybody upgrading without authority could find themselves in trouible.
Many long serving staff are entitled to travel in CW, space available of course. Other staff book and pay for a premium seat, and staff on duty (but not wearing) uniform often also have CW entitlement.
Like those in banking get perks of discounted mortgages, or those in retail get discounted purchasesm then staff at ailines get discounted travel.
That said there are numerous times when staff who've paid for a premuium seat end up on jump seats without getting a refund of the premium rate they've paid.
Aug 15, 2011, 10:33 am
#34
Join Date: Nov 2005
Programs: BA Exec
Posts: 647
Same on AF/KLM (must be some rule about the Captain having absolute and total control over everything on the vessel - or the pilot unions fighting for it tooth and nail 
) but I've seen it happen SO much on those airlines that I can't quite imagine that it is checked with the Captain every single time (?)
) but I've seen it happen SO much on those airlines that I can't quite imagine that it is checked with the Captain every single time (?)Further to my previous opinion, I think there are far more important issues to address, as far as the customer is concerned.
I highly doubt BA puts staff ahead of its customers - if a flight is overbooked for instance, I'm given to understand that customer upgrades will be processed first - staff are dealt with at the very end, once everyone else is looked after.
That said there are numerous times when staff who've paid for a premuium seat end up on jump seats without getting a refund of the premium rate they've paid.
Aug 15, 2011, 10:34 am
#35
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Horsham, UK
Programs: BA Silver, Flying Blue Gold
Posts: 363
of course they deserve it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How could you possibly think otherwise, and as BA does not have such a liberal upgrade policy as other airlines, I think it is perfectly right.
I most certainly could not cope anywhere near as well with some of the situations that I have seen cabin crew in - good on them, I say.
As one of the other posters said, it is done in a 'British' way - I, for example, get 50% off school fees through working as a teacher. Would you say that that is wrong?
How preposterous to suggest otherwise, I'm sure bank employees get cheaper mortgages etc.
How could you possibly think otherwise, and as BA does not have such a liberal upgrade policy as other airlines, I think it is perfectly right.
I most certainly could not cope anywhere near as well with some of the situations that I have seen cabin crew in - good on them, I say.
As one of the other posters said, it is done in a 'British' way - I, for example, get 50% off school fees through working as a teacher. Would you say that that is wrong?
How preposterous to suggest otherwise, I'm sure bank employees get cheaper mortgages etc.
Aug 15, 2011, 10:39 am
#37
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,061
All op ups are processed before any staff are given their seat allocation, the only exception to this being when a crew are needed to be positioned to operate a subsequent sector - they will then be accommodated in accordance with their contracts and is known as duty travel.
The policy of the company is that all passengers will get what they paid for and only be given an op-up if there is a valid commercial reason to do so, oversales, mileage redemption. MFU etc.
Op ups are not just given away to prems or anyone else unless there is a commercial reason to do so, just having status is not a reason to op up as this erodes margins and creates an expectation of entitlement. It does not create enhanced loyalty except in the very short term.
In the longer term the premium passengers stop buying F & J in the knowledge that their status will give them an op-up and will cost them nothing. Indeed this happened immediately post the initial bite of the credit crunch when companies tightened their belts and BA did not lower F & J fares. Companies started to use lower fares for their employees so the Traveller and WT+ cabins were overbooked and the Gold Card holders were op-uped.
It was not unusual on the jumbo to see 40 upgrades due oversales in J - all card holders on lower fare tickets. This became well known and people stopped buying the J Fares in the certainty that status would enhance their cabin. So BA do not do this unless they have to.
As has been mentioned CSDs do not have the power to move staff travellers once the doors are closed - only the Captain can do this, though obviously this will be delegated to the CSD so the distinction is a fine one and some CSDs will doubtless do it anyway guessing that the Captain will not know.
Personally I think that once all the commercial travellers have what they are entitled to and all the staff travellers have what they are entitled to then if we cannot look after friends and colleagues then we are diminished by our pettiness. As with all these things discretion is the key.
The policy of the company is that all passengers will get what they paid for and only be given an op-up if there is a valid commercial reason to do so, oversales, mileage redemption. MFU etc.
Op ups are not just given away to prems or anyone else unless there is a commercial reason to do so, just having status is not a reason to op up as this erodes margins and creates an expectation of entitlement. It does not create enhanced loyalty except in the very short term.
In the longer term the premium passengers stop buying F & J in the knowledge that their status will give them an op-up and will cost them nothing. Indeed this happened immediately post the initial bite of the credit crunch when companies tightened their belts and BA did not lower F & J fares. Companies started to use lower fares for their employees so the Traveller and WT+ cabins were overbooked and the Gold Card holders were op-uped.
It was not unusual on the jumbo to see 40 upgrades due oversales in J - all card holders on lower fare tickets. This became well known and people stopped buying the J Fares in the certainty that status would enhance their cabin. So BA do not do this unless they have to.
As has been mentioned CSDs do not have the power to move staff travellers once the doors are closed - only the Captain can do this, though obviously this will be delegated to the CSD so the distinction is a fine one and some CSDs will doubtless do it anyway guessing that the Captain will not know.
Personally I think that once all the commercial travellers have what they are entitled to and all the staff travellers have what they are entitled to then if we cannot look after friends and colleagues then we are diminished by our pettiness. As with all these things discretion is the key.
Aug 15, 2011, 10:39 am
#38
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NYC, SLC, LAX
Programs: AA EXP, UA Plat
Posts: 3,951
I'm fine with CC and BA staff being upgraded onboard.
What I'm NOT OK with is the crew's/captain's/ground staff's/gate agent's friend/family/acquaintance/etc being upgraded just on the basis of "knowing people".
What I'm NOT OK with is the crew's/captain's/ground staff's/gate agent's friend/family/acquaintance/etc being upgraded just on the basis of "knowing people".
Aug 15, 2011, 10:46 am
#39
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Washington, D
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 316
All op ups are processed before any staff are given their seat allocation, the only exception to this being when a crew are needed to be positioned to operate a subsequent sector - they will then be accommodated in accordance with their contracts and is known as duty travel.
The policy of the company is that all passengers will get what they paid for and only be given an op-up if there is a valid commercial reason to do so, oversales, mileage redemption. MFU etc.
Op ups are not just given away to prems or anyone else unless there is a commercial reason to do so, just having status is not a reason to op up as this erodes margins and creates an expectation of entitlement. It does not create enhanced loyalty except in the very short term.
In the longer term the premium passengers stop buying F & J in the knowledge that their status will give them an op-up and will cost them nothing. Indeed this happened immediately post the initial bite of the credit crunch when companies tightened their belts and BA did not lower F & J fares. Companies started to use lower fares for their employees so the Traveller and WT+ cabins were overbooked and the Gold Card holders were op-uped.
It was not unusual on the jumbo to see 40 upgrades due oversales in J - all card holders on lower fare tickets. This became well known and people stopped buying the J Fares in the certainty that status would enhance their cabin. So BA do not do this unless they have to.
As has been mentioned CSDs do not have the power to move staff travellers once the doors are closed - only the Captain can do this, though obviously this will be delegated to the CSD so the distinction is a fine one and some CSDs will doubtless do it anyway guessing that the Captain will not know.
Personally I think that once all the commercial travellers have what they are entitled to and all the staff travellers have what they are entitled to then if we cannot look after friends and colleagues then we are diminished by our pettiness. As with all these things discretion is the key.
The policy of the company is that all passengers will get what they paid for and only be given an op-up if there is a valid commercial reason to do so, oversales, mileage redemption. MFU etc.
Op ups are not just given away to prems or anyone else unless there is a commercial reason to do so, just having status is not a reason to op up as this erodes margins and creates an expectation of entitlement. It does not create enhanced loyalty except in the very short term.
In the longer term the premium passengers stop buying F & J in the knowledge that their status will give them an op-up and will cost them nothing. Indeed this happened immediately post the initial bite of the credit crunch when companies tightened their belts and BA did not lower F & J fares. Companies started to use lower fares for their employees so the Traveller and WT+ cabins were overbooked and the Gold Card holders were op-uped.
It was not unusual on the jumbo to see 40 upgrades due oversales in J - all card holders on lower fare tickets. This became well known and people stopped buying the J Fares in the certainty that status would enhance their cabin. So BA do not do this unless they have to.
As has been mentioned CSDs do not have the power to move staff travellers once the doors are closed - only the Captain can do this, though obviously this will be delegated to the CSD so the distinction is a fine one and some CSDs will doubtless do it anyway guessing that the Captain will not know.
Personally I think that once all the commercial travellers have what they are entitled to and all the staff travellers have what they are entitled to then if we cannot look after friends and colleagues then we are diminished by our pettiness. As with all these things discretion is the key.
Aug 15, 2011, 10:47 am
#40
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,641
I have also been in this situation when flying WT+.
Once the staff traveller left, it meant I had a free seat next to me, as the staff traveller was upgraded to CW, and I was quite happy with that result.
So as long as it doesn't get out of hand, it's a non-issue.
I'd rather BA defended the integrity of its service offering, than gave upgrades out like confetti to paying passengers; it makes the rare op-up all the more appreciated.
Once the staff traveller left, it meant I had a free seat next to me, as the staff traveller was upgraded to CW, and I was quite happy with that result.
So as long as it doesn't get out of hand, it's a non-issue.
I'd rather BA defended the integrity of its service offering, than gave upgrades out like confetti to paying passengers; it makes the rare op-up all the more appreciated.
Aug 15, 2011, 11:02 am
#41
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London, Sth Africa or LAS
Programs: VS Silver, BA Blue - finally; but hotels.com Gold :)
Posts: 1,858
I pretty much recognise BA's actions per post 37, and agree with most of it.
Not sure I'm with the "looking after friends and colleagues" sentiment. I suppose the acid test is whether its a rare event and genuinely offered on the spur of the moment and without any sense of expectation or entitlement by the beneficiary.
For me, I trust BA to respect fares paid and if i've paid WT+ i'd don't expect to be treated any better or any worse on the basis of who I know.
Some of the stories above, from other airlines, would put me off travelling them; especially if thinking of paying for a premiuim cabin.
Not sure I'm with the "looking after friends and colleagues" sentiment. I suppose the acid test is whether its a rare event and genuinely offered on the spur of the moment and without any sense of expectation or entitlement by the beneficiary.
For me, I trust BA to respect fares paid and if i've paid WT+ i'd don't expect to be treated any better or any worse on the basis of who I know.
Some of the stories above, from other airlines, would put me off travelling them; especially if thinking of paying for a premiuim cabin.
Aug 15, 2011, 11:02 am
#42
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ipswich
Programs: BA GGL, Royal Ambassador
Posts: 311
Why would I have an issue with this - I work for a major company, and I get perks (or rather things people may view as perks) of my job, just they're not as public as crew positioning in J or on staff travel.
Why should this bother me - I wouldn't want people judging if I should be entitled to what I benefit from through my line of work ?
Let them enjoy what 'perks' they get - I've often seen crew positioning, and having had crew as friends, yes sometimes I expect they do enjoy a 'ride' in J knowing they can kick back and relax a little.... good for them !
... all I would say, is rubbing fare paying PAX face in that fact is probably not diplomatic, but I've never come across a situation where anyone has done so.
Ed
Why should this bother me - I wouldn't want people judging if I should be entitled to what I benefit from through my line of work ?
Let them enjoy what 'perks' they get - I've often seen crew positioning, and having had crew as friends, yes sometimes I expect they do enjoy a 'ride' in J knowing they can kick back and relax a little.... good for them !
... all I would say, is rubbing fare paying PAX face in that fact is probably not diplomatic, but I've never come across a situation where anyone has done so.
Ed
Aug 15, 2011, 11:02 am
#43
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,207
I think some peoples imaginations get a bit carried away when they see passengers either mysteriously disappearing or appearing in cabins. It's human nature in some people to get a bit miffed when you see someone getting something for nothing when you don't or have paid for it in the first place.
I know I got a bit miffed when I thought we were going to be flying in a half empty F cabin with LH only to find it packed out with (seemingly) LH employees and their friends and family. Of course I had no way of proving this.....apart from my observations which could have been misconstrued anyway.
Aug 15, 2011, 11:07 am
#44
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NYC
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 567
I really can't see any problem whit this issue.
Gold membership doesn't guarantee any "upgrade" and if they flight is half empty on J there's no eligibility for gold members to receive an upgrade.
So if CC is being moved up is not something that could have happened to the GC owner seated next to him and didn't.
Gold membership doesn't guarantee any "upgrade" and if they flight is half empty on J there's no eligibility for gold members to receive an upgrade.
So if CC is being moved up is not something that could have happened to the GC owner seated next to him and didn't.
Aug 15, 2011, 11:07 am
#45
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NYC, SLC, LAX
Programs: AA EXP, UA Plat
Posts: 3,951
How can you prove it though?
I think some peoples imaginations get a bit carried away when they see passengers either mysteriously disappearing or appearing in cabins. It's human nature in some people to get a bit miffed when you see someone getting something for nothing when you don't or have paid for it in the first place.
I know I got a bit miffed when I thought we were going to be flying in a half empty F cabin with LH only to find it packed out with (seemingly) LH employees and their friends and family. Of course I had no way of proving this.....apart from my observations which could have been misconstrued anyway.
I think some peoples imaginations get a bit carried away when they see passengers either mysteriously disappearing or appearing in cabins. It's human nature in some people to get a bit miffed when you see someone getting something for nothing when you don't or have paid for it in the first place.
I know I got a bit miffed when I thought we were going to be flying in a half empty F cabin with LH only to find it packed out with (seemingly) LH employees and their friends and family. Of course I had no way of proving this.....apart from my observations which could have been misconstrued anyway.
I do, however, know a lot of people, a few of which (a) work for airlines (not BA
) and (b) are very good friends of those who do. I don't know if it happens on BA a lot, but I am aware, that especially on US airlines it happens (when premium cabins are not filled with systemwide upgrades, miles upgrades, auto-upgrades, and whatever-else-you-can-imagine upgrades).