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16 year old travellers: do they need parent's written permission?

16 year old travellers: do they need parent's written permission?

Old Aug 2, 2011, 5:13 am
  #31  
 
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This does seem rather nanny-state-ist. There is after all no minimum age above which you have to be to travel as far around the UK as you like by rail, so why not to enter the country? Indeed, isn't it supposed to be the case that entry to the UK cannot be denied to a British Citizen of any age?
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 5:41 am
  #32  
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It's the usual story, child-protection gets trotted out at any possible opportunity. I was in a public park yesterday which had a fenced off children's play area and there were signs (which were serious) saying "strictly no adults unless accompanied by a child".
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 5:59 am
  #33  
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No adults unless accompanied by a child. Made my day
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 8:41 am
  #34  
 
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Interestingly enough, I encountered the same problem several years ago flying CX from HKG-JFK, I am a US passport holder and I was 15 or 16 at the time. However, the kicker was that I was flying with my younger brother who was 12 or 13 at the time. They had to call over a CX rep when we went through immigration who explained that at 13 they don't have to be a UM and they pay full fare and thus can bring a child along with them. The immigration officer then asked where we were going and how we were getting there; he winced slightly as I said we had a car to pick us up. Good intentions, however, slightly annoying since both my brother and myself have been frequent flyers since birth.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 9:02 am
  #35  
 
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My daughter flew to canada aged 12 not as a UM and the check in staff were not sure that she was allowed to be and had to check with the supervisor.
Kindly they asked the cabin staff just to keep a eye on her!
She was not being met by a parent so she had a letter signed by both parents not notarized and she had details of her medical insurance.

Then on return at immigration at T5 an immigration officer did telephone me in the arrivals hall to check that I was there and to confirm who I was and they asked her where she had been - they explained to me it was about trafficing and I am happy that they look out for children. The photographs in childrens passports are often so generic it would be very easy to use a passport to bring in a different child.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 10:46 am
  #36  
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So, it seems there may be some rule that's not well applied, or there's no rule but some UK Border officers think it would be a good idea if there was one(and I suppose they do witness many incidents we don't..), so they act as if there is such a rule.

But whether it's a rule, or just sensible advice, it's not well communicated.

I do think that insisting that a strapping boy (or girl) of 16 or 17 is met at the airport is over the top though.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 11:30 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by stifle
. I was in a public park yesterday which had a fenced off children's play area and there were signs (which were serious) saying "strictly no adults unless accompanied by a child".
I do agree with this, too many weirdoes in parks.. Better safe than sorry.

When my kids were young travelers, I always gave them a pouch in it I would include some nessecary stuff including a notarized paper saying they had my/our permission to travel alone, included were telephone numbers etc etc.

When I got a divorce, kids carried the notarized papers and if I were flying with them I had a notarized permission from their dad. And I always carried my custody papers with my all the time. In case I get stopped for "child abduction" etc etc, I and they have all the papers.

Someone mentioned a divorce case and the child going to a performance, I highly do advise getting the paper, even if lawyers are involved (mine where always involved, didn't want the headache), just in case, really. One parent at a moments anger might say something.
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Old Aug 2, 2011, 11:42 am
  #38  
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What Yahillwe has written seems immensely sensible.

It saves everyone a potential headache and extra stress and worry, including that of your children.
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Old Aug 3, 2011, 12:57 am
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by ella2001
I do think that insisting that a strapping boy (or girl) of 16 or 17 is met at the airport is over the top though.
It's complete nonsense given that you can marry at 16, though I doubt many would. I can also find no evidence of it whatsoever documented anywhere. As my understanding is that a British Citizen of any age cannot be refused entry to the UK for any reason (though they could be arrested immediately on admission, I suppose, or even extradited due to a crime in another country) I'm not clear where this comes from.

Neil
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Old Aug 3, 2011, 1:02 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by Yahillwe
I do agree with this, too many weirdoes in parks.. Better safe than sorry.
I personally find it distasteful and a symptom of the breakdown of trust between adults and children in society, which I believe to be causing immense damage given that it is a small number of adults causing an actual problem. But each to their own.

Neil
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Old Aug 3, 2011, 5:04 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by pacer142
I personally find it distasteful and a symptom of the breakdown of trust between adults and children in society, which I believe to be causing immense damage given that it is a small number of adults causing an actual problem. But each to their own.

Neil
I do agree with you, but I would be very angry if it happened to any kid... Some days i have nightmares of something happening to my daughter and she is an adult. Society has changed, or we hear more about incidences of abductions, rape etc etc. Just like the recent incidence in the Hasidic community in NY. There is a saying that goes, " I'd rather be called 9 times a coward than once, god bless her soul."


Recently while at the beach and seeing young girls in mono-kinis, my 21 year old daughter commented that she wouldn't allow her own daughter to go out like that, because one never knows if there is a pedophile, this came out from a very liberal open minded young lady.
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Old Aug 3, 2011, 5:45 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by Yahillwe
I do agree with you, but I would be very angry if it happened to any kid... Some days i have nightmares of something happening to my daughter and she is an adult. Society has changed, or we hear more about incidences of abductions, rape etc etc.
We have a massively better access to news than we did years ago, and vastly better forensics etc and other means of catching those up to no good. I don't believe there is a higher risk at all - indeed, this view is one of the things causing the problem. It means kids aren't out playing on their own, which is where they should be in a functioning society. So yes, I would say it's because we hear more about things and more people get caught than before. That doesn't mean there are more perpetrators out there.

And I would say your anger should be directed against those who do commit crimes against children, and we should ensure they are caught and punished appropriately.

Just like the recent incidence in the Hasidic community in NY. There is a saying that goes, " I'd rather be called 9 times a coward than once, god bless her soul."
Yet if a child is overprotected, they don't develop properly as an adult. This is in my view becoming more visible these days.

Recently while at the beach and seeing young girls in mono-kinis, my 21 year old daughter commented that she wouldn't allow her own daughter to go out like that, because one never knows if there is a pedophile, this came out from a very liberal open minded young lady.
That worries me. A lot. Though I'd equally argue the other way that dressing children up as mini-adults isn't a good thing either.

The best way is in my view to let children be children and stop panicking as society in general is doing. There *isn't* a paedophile on every street corner. And even if there was, there was before as well. It just used to be the case that "Old Mr X is a bit odd, make sure you stay away from him", and it's now "It's not safe, so my kids don't go out". That causes a lot of harm to their long-term development, IMO.

Neil
djbenedict and nancypants like this.

Last edited by pacer142; Aug 3, 2011 at 6:00 am
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Old Aug 3, 2011, 6:12 am
  #43  
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I again agree with you, and am glad that my kids did enjoy a free youth.

But it would take only ONE incident and their lives is changed forever. And so is the life of the parent. The incident that I mentioned was the parents of the child finally allowed him to meet them 2 blocks away for the first time. The child was 8 years old, got lost and asked for directions from this man who was a resident of the same community. I am not going to say anymore what happened to this child, but it isn't nice...It only takes ONE incidence to change a family's life. Are you willing to risk it?
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Old Aug 3, 2011, 6:20 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by Yahillwe
I again agree with you, and am glad that my kids did enjoy a free youth.

But it would take only ONE incident and their lives is changed forever. And so is the life of the parent. The incident that I mentioned was the parents of the child finally allowed him to meet them 2 blocks away for the first time. The child was 8 years old, got lost and asked for directions from this man who was a resident of the same community. I am not going to say anymore what happened to this child, but it isn't nice...It only takes ONE incidence to change a family's life. Are you willing to risk it?
Yes, frankly, because I think the price one would pay otherwise for isolating one's kids would be too high. There's a much greater risk of (for example) a child out on its own being hit by a car than being accosted by a pervert, and the consequences of being hit by a car are likely to be at least as bad, and in many unfortunate cases much, much worse.

I have a 15-year-old son who has always been encouraged to be independent; we live in central London and he has travelled to school on his own by public transport (bus or Tube) since he was about 10. Over the last couple of years he has been out in the evening on his own or with friends on the other side of the city. As a result he's aware that there are some very odd characters out there but that's part of life; he's a lot more streetwise than many more protected kids of his age. Clearly we give him a longer leash than we might a 15-year-old daughter, but I always remind myself that he'll be an adult in a couple of years. If he were protected now, he'd only be forced to find it all out later.

Actually he's about to take his first flight completely alone, i.e. not UM and not accompanied to and from the airport. (Intra-Schengen so no passport control questions pace the other thread.) My main concern is that he doesn't mislay his passport...
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Old Aug 3, 2011, 6:57 am
  #45  
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Where does one draw the line a very thin line for that matter. My kids (now adults) were raised on both sides of the Atlantic, and have travelled both alone and with me extensively. Very street wise. Have taken the bus or walked to school alone... have gone out alone, with their friends, since they were 14. My daughter developed ways of distinguishing legit taxis, in Paris they aren't uniformed. learnt to take a down the license on the meter, etc etc. There were some incidences of fake taxis standing outside clubs and taking mainly tourist ladies out and a few have not been seen again.

And we live in a very "safe" area of Paris This past New Year, while going out with her friends just really around the corner from the house, she was accosted by a drunk, he pulled her long hair tried to throw her down the ground and kiss her, her friend and my daughter tried in vain to kick him push him off her, all the while screaming for help. Lots of people walking by a police car passed by and NO ONE, NO ONE stopped and did anything. One person only came and helped them by pushing the man off her. Only one person. And I live just next to the tower where everyone and their dog goes.

It only takes ONE incident for you, as a parent to have nightmares that you couldn't protect your child.. She didn't go out for a long time and even now is very careful.
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