Amex increasing my BA Premium Plus Card Fee
Jul 29, 2011, 1:38 am
#151
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,969
tangey
Your argument is entirely reasonable but in my opnion the threshold is a lot easier than any purely legal one.
For the FOS the action by Amex simply has to be "unfair". In simple terms if you have £5k left to spend to get your 241 then their change mid-year prevents it without the imposition of an additional unexpected fee.
I'm reasonably certain that for the reasons you eloquently describe the FOS would find in the card member's favour and the current delays in providing answers may be because Amex recognise this and may be seeking ways to unravel the rather silly mess they have created. They can make what changes they want to the T's&C's but the issue is they must be applied fairly and this isn't fair.
Your argument is entirely reasonable but in my opnion the threshold is a lot easier than any purely legal one.
For the FOS the action by Amex simply has to be "unfair". In simple terms if you have £5k left to spend to get your 241 then their change mid-year prevents it without the imposition of an additional unexpected fee.
I'm reasonably certain that for the reasons you eloquently describe the FOS would find in the card member's favour and the current delays in providing answers may be because Amex recognise this and may be seeking ways to unravel the rather silly mess they have created. They can make what changes they want to the T's&C's but the issue is they must be applied fairly and this isn't fair.
Jul 29, 2011, 3:06 am
#152
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,008
See post 94 for the required companion cards.
In short, If you held a Platinum or Centurion charge card there was no charge for the BAPP. This will continue according to Amex. If you held an Amex credit card, the the fee for the BAPP was reduced to £30. This will not continue.
In short, If you held a Platinum or Centurion charge card there was no charge for the BAPP. This will continue according to Amex. If you held an Amex credit card, the the fee for the BAPP was reduced to £30. This will not continue.
Jul 29, 2011, 7:54 am
#155
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Programs: BAEC Silver, IHG & Accor Plat...
Posts: 734
I rang the Amex helpdesk today and got exactly nowhere.
Background: I have a BA P+ and a Plat Credit Card, and have received the dreaded letter; for the last few years I spent £10K on the BAPP and then put another £15-20K on the Plat. And I just lost a 241 that expired due to inability to get seats to desired destinations in a reasonable timeframe; I have almost half a million BAEC miles.
I put forward the arguments described above by our learned FT colleagues - thank you for that. I did not go down the FSA or complaint route though. I simply pointed out the rules have changed mid year with no benefit; its not easy to spend the 241's if the taxes are so high on shorthaul flights I can fly cheaper for cash, and for long haul, booking up to 365 days ahead to secure a seat is a ridiculous constraint; and I fly a lot for work with BA so 50% extra miles on my BA P+ spend isnt a sufficient differentiator. Meanwhile, I pointed out that Hilton Visa are offering Gold Hilton status if I spend £10K on their card - no fee. So the odd room upgrade , free breakfast, club access, and wifi quickly translates into real value plus a points multiplier; whereas booking a £3K business class 241 seat on miles (plus taxes!) remains a largely hypothetical value that I cannot easily extract from the BA P+ programme. Finally I pointed out that, right at this moment, I have taken the Amex cards from my wallet, and that the BA P+ would sit in my drawer un-used until I used my remaining 241's. I asked what my options were, and could Amex could do something interesting for me.
The response? They tried to sell me a £300 Plat charge card. Great idea: you dont want to pay more, so would you like a more expensive card instead ?
(I've done this analysis before, its not worth £300 to me in my situation, though of course it may well suit others).
She confirmed (but I would like to see in writing) that if I switch to the regular BA Amex, my existing 241's will remain unchanged.
When I repeated the question - "so there is nothing you can do?", she said she "has no discretion or power to offer any alternatives" - no mention of Tesco vouchers that some seem to have got.
At which point I said that's a shame, I will consider my position over the weekend, but expect a call back on monday to cancel both cards and move me to a regular BA amex. And that was that....
Background: I have a BA P+ and a Plat Credit Card, and have received the dreaded letter; for the last few years I spent £10K on the BAPP and then put another £15-20K on the Plat. And I just lost a 241 that expired due to inability to get seats to desired destinations in a reasonable timeframe; I have almost half a million BAEC miles.
I put forward the arguments described above by our learned FT colleagues - thank you for that. I did not go down the FSA or complaint route though. I simply pointed out the rules have changed mid year with no benefit; its not easy to spend the 241's if the taxes are so high on shorthaul flights I can fly cheaper for cash, and for long haul, booking up to 365 days ahead to secure a seat is a ridiculous constraint; and I fly a lot for work with BA so 50% extra miles on my BA P+ spend isnt a sufficient differentiator. Meanwhile, I pointed out that Hilton Visa are offering Gold Hilton status if I spend £10K on their card - no fee. So the odd room upgrade , free breakfast, club access, and wifi quickly translates into real value plus a points multiplier; whereas booking a £3K business class 241 seat on miles (plus taxes!) remains a largely hypothetical value that I cannot easily extract from the BA P+ programme. Finally I pointed out that, right at this moment, I have taken the Amex cards from my wallet, and that the BA P+ would sit in my drawer un-used until I used my remaining 241's. I asked what my options were, and could Amex could do something interesting for me.
The response? They tried to sell me a £300 Plat charge card. Great idea: you dont want to pay more, so would you like a more expensive card instead ?
(I've done this analysis before, its not worth £300 to me in my situation, though of course it may well suit others). She confirmed (but I would like to see in writing) that if I switch to the regular BA Amex, my existing 241's will remain unchanged.
When I repeated the question - "so there is nothing you can do?", she said she "has no discretion or power to offer any alternatives" - no mention of Tesco vouchers that some seem to have got.
At which point I said that's a shame, I will consider my position over the weekend, but expect a call back on monday to cancel both cards and move me to a regular BA amex. And that was that....
Last edited by LostAntipod; Jul 29, 2011 at 7:56 am Reason: spellig, er spelling
Jul 29, 2011, 8:08 am
#156
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Edinburgh
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 9,034
I've got the Plat Charge card (since last year) and the BAPP card (for a lot longer) and pay the full charge on both - I've never asked for a discount and my 2nd year £300 on the Plat Charge card has just hit my account.
Is it worth phoning and asking them to reduce the BAPP charge or have they stopped doing that all together?
Jul 29, 2011, 8:13 am
#157
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London and Zurich
Programs: AA, BA, Mucci: Sir Roger des Directions Routières, PCR
Posts: 13,609
Is it worth phoning and asking them to reduce the BAPP charge or have they stopped doing that all together?
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Jul 29, 2011, 10:40 am
#158
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold / Hilton Diamond / IHG Diamond Ambassador / Marriot Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 2,533
I rang the Amex helpdesk today and got exactly nowhere.
Background: I have a BA P+ and a Plat Credit Card, and have received the dreaded letter; for the last few years I spent £10K on the BAPP and then put another £15-20K on the Plat. And I just lost a 241 that expired due to inability to get seats to desired destinations in a reasonable timeframe; I have almost half a million BAEC miles.
I put forward the arguments described above by our learned FT colleagues - thank you for that. I did not go down the FSA or complaint route though. I simply pointed out the rules have changed mid year with no benefit; its not easy to spend the 241's if the taxes are so high on shorthaul flights I can fly cheaper for cash, and for long haul, booking up to 365 days ahead to secure a seat is a ridiculous constraint; and I fly a lot for work with BA so 50% extra miles on my BA P+ spend isnt a sufficient differentiator. Meanwhile, I pointed out that Hilton Visa are offering Gold Hilton status if I spend £10K on their card - no fee. So the odd room upgrade , free breakfast, club access, and wifi quickly translates into real value plus a points multiplier; whereas booking a £3K business class 241 seat on miles (plus taxes!) remains a largely hypothetical value that I cannot easily extract from the BA P+ programme. Finally I pointed out that, right at this moment, I have taken the Amex cards from my wallet, and that the BA P+ would sit in my drawer un-used until I used my remaining 241's. I asked what my options were, and could Amex could do something interesting for me.
The response? They tried to sell me a £300 Plat charge card. Great idea: you dont want to pay more, so would you like a more expensive card instead ? (I've done this analysis before, its not worth £300 to me in my situation, though of course it may well suit others).
She confirmed (but I would like to see in writing) that if I switch to the regular BA Amex, my existing 241's will remain unchanged.
When I repeated the question - "so there is nothing you can do?", she said she "has no discretion or power to offer any alternatives" - no mention of Tesco vouchers that some seem to have got.
At which point I said that's a shame, I will consider my position over the weekend, but expect a call back on monday to cancel both cards and move me to a regular BA amex. And that was that....
Background: I have a BA P+ and a Plat Credit Card, and have received the dreaded letter; for the last few years I spent £10K on the BAPP and then put another £15-20K on the Plat. And I just lost a 241 that expired due to inability to get seats to desired destinations in a reasonable timeframe; I have almost half a million BAEC miles.
I put forward the arguments described above by our learned FT colleagues - thank you for that. I did not go down the FSA or complaint route though. I simply pointed out the rules have changed mid year with no benefit; its not easy to spend the 241's if the taxes are so high on shorthaul flights I can fly cheaper for cash, and for long haul, booking up to 365 days ahead to secure a seat is a ridiculous constraint; and I fly a lot for work with BA so 50% extra miles on my BA P+ spend isnt a sufficient differentiator. Meanwhile, I pointed out that Hilton Visa are offering Gold Hilton status if I spend £10K on their card - no fee. So the odd room upgrade , free breakfast, club access, and wifi quickly translates into real value plus a points multiplier; whereas booking a £3K business class 241 seat on miles (plus taxes!) remains a largely hypothetical value that I cannot easily extract from the BA P+ programme. Finally I pointed out that, right at this moment, I have taken the Amex cards from my wallet, and that the BA P+ would sit in my drawer un-used until I used my remaining 241's. I asked what my options were, and could Amex could do something interesting for me.
The response? They tried to sell me a £300 Plat charge card. Great idea: you dont want to pay more, so would you like a more expensive card instead ?
(I've done this analysis before, its not worth £300 to me in my situation, though of course it may well suit others). She confirmed (but I would like to see in writing) that if I switch to the regular BA Amex, my existing 241's will remain unchanged.
When I repeated the question - "so there is nothing you can do?", she said she "has no discretion or power to offer any alternatives" - no mention of Tesco vouchers that some seem to have got.
At which point I said that's a shame, I will consider my position over the weekend, but expect a call back on monday to cancel both cards and move me to a regular BA amex. And that was that....
Hi
Don't give up...my advice is not to call them, you will just get the script read to you
Write a letter. It will take a few minutes but they hate it and if they get enough then the costs of handling them may be enough to sway them for a short time.
he issue must be the mid year change and the lack of personalisation of their letter detailing the increase. That is beacuse they can raise the charges but they are also required to be transparent about charges and the letter was not as it was a generic mailing. You had to make the calculation and that means you might get it wrong and would subsequently base your decision on erroneous information. They (Amex) were requried to be clear what the charge would be to you as an individual and not have you guessing, no matter how good your math is.
Jul 29, 2011, 11:03 am
#159
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Programs: BAEC Silver, IHG & Accor Plat...
Posts: 734
Binman - appreciate the suggestion.
I readily admit that I have had success at redeeming for long haul business class in the past, and saved a lot of dosh (and in return, put quite a lot of money through Amex on which they earn fees over quite a few years now). So fair is fair. Having said that, I think they could have handled this far, far better for a 20+ year customer who holds 4 cards (I did not mention the Aussie card and the corporate card that I also have).
I readily admit that I have had success at redeeming for long haul business class in the past, and saved a lot of dosh (and in return, put quite a lot of money through Amex on which they earn fees over quite a few years now). So fair is fair. Having said that, I think they could have handled this far, far better for a 20+ year customer who holds 4 cards (I did not mention the Aussie card and the corporate card that I also have).
Jul 30, 2011, 8:48 am
#160
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Programs: HH Diamond, IHG Spire, Marriott Titanium, BA Silver, FB Explorer
Posts: 995
Probably bad news on validity of existing vouchers
"Dear NorthOrSouth,
Thank you for your recent communication regarding your British Airways American Express Premium Plus Card.
I am writing in regard to your recent telephone enquiry concerning the Companion Voucher validity.
Please be advised if you qualify for a Companion Voucher this would be valid for 24 months as a Premium Plus Card holder.
If you decide to downgrade to a British Airways Classic Credit Card after the Companion Voucher has been issued the Voucher would be amended to 12 months validity.
If you wish for the Comppanion Voucher to remain with the 24 month validity period the Card fee must not be refunded for this anniversary year.
I trust this information is of assistance.....blah, blah, blah."
So the letter contradicts what they told me on the phone. I'm writing a letter of complaint now. They're making this up as they go along and changing their minds on a whim.
Jul 30, 2011, 9:23 am
#161
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,969
I have now received the confirmation letter that I asked for confirming the above. It says:
Please be advised if you qualify for a Companion Voucher this would be valid for 24 months as a Premium Plus Card holder.
If you decide to downgrade to a British Airways Classic Credit Card after the Companion Voucher has been issued the Voucher would be amended to 12 months validity.
Please be advised if you qualify for a Companion Voucher this would be valid for 24 months as a Premium Plus Card holder.
If you decide to downgrade to a British Airways Classic Credit Card after the Companion Voucher has been issued the Voucher would be amended to 12 months validity.
I'd simply reply along the lines of "I am unhappy with your response and wish to invoke Amex's formal complaint process as quickly as possible."
There is a potential unexpected danger here for Amex if they do as they suggest they will in your note. Clearly there actions on downgrading with respect to the 241 voucher hasn't been publicised and consequently will be unknown to many PP customers with open vouchers.
It will present an infinite number of different scenarios of customer complaints for them to have to deal with when people find at the moment that they plan to redeem their 241 that their voucher expired some time ago without any warning. Even with a warning those that feel that they have a viable complaint are faced with how best to "minimise" their own losses if they were planning to use the voucher. And what happens to those that do not stump up the cash but have already made a booking that is between 12 and 24 months out? Are their flights cancelled? If not how does that stack up with treating all customers in an identical way? Any experienced and competent manager reviewing this in Amex before announcement should have been able to predict what chaos would occur as a result of this plan.
I'd be tempted to ask them to confirm what will happen if you booked a redemption plus 241 ticket after 12 months of voucher issue and then changed to the other card.
A right old mess.
EDITED TO ADD: It may "shorten" the resolution if you make your complaint to Amex via the FOS .... they may just take it a touch more seriously ....
Last edited by uk1; Jul 30, 2011 at 10:00 am
Jul 30, 2011, 10:08 am
#162
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Programs: HH Diamond, IHG Spire, Marriott Titanium, BA Silver, FB Explorer
Posts: 995
I had decided to get the written confirmation because I have a voucher issued in September 2010 valid till September 2012 which is against a booking for January/February 2012. So I had wanted to check it was still going to be valid and wasn't suddenly going to be a problem. I suspect there are indeed many with this potential issue.
I really don't know what is going on with Amex these days. They were pretty good but in the last year I've had issues with my Gold card (now cancelled) and my corporate card (where they sent me a letter saying I had contacted them to cancel the direct debit when I had done nothing of the sort).
Jul 30, 2011, 10:11 am
#163
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,969
They use to be excellent, world class at CS.
The FOS route will tell them clearly that a formal complaint awaits them if they don't resolve. They'll also have a better point of contact than you. It will save some of the palaver as it will escallate more quickly.
Good luck.
The FOS route will tell them clearly that a formal complaint awaits them if they don't resolve. They'll also have a better point of contact than you. It will save some of the palaver as it will escallate more quickly.
Good luck.
Jul 30, 2011, 10:35 am
#164
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA IHG
Posts: 1,370
If you decide to downgrade to a British Airways Classic Credit Card after the Companion Voucher has been issued the Voucher would be amended to 12 months validity.
If you wish for the Comppanion Voucher to remain with the 24 month validity period the Card fee must not be refunded for this anniversary year.
I trust this information is of assistance.....blah, blah, blah."
If you wish for the Comppanion Voucher to remain with the 24 month validity period the Card fee must not be refunded for this anniversary year.
I trust this information is of assistance.....blah, blah, blah."
Jul 30, 2011, 10:49 am
#165
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
Programs: BA Silver, EI Silver, HH Gold, BW Gold, ABP, Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci
Posts: 14,210
As was mentioned upthread, every FOS referral beyond the first three per year costs Amex £500, which is £380 more than the fees they're claiming. I wonder will they see sense?