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LHR-GIB flight diverted to AGP with poor service from BA

LHR-GIB flight diverted to AGP with poor service from BA

Old Jul 22, 2010, 2:32 pm
  #1  
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LHR-GIB flight diverted to AGP with poor service from BA

I flew with my wife and daughter from LHR to GIB recently on discounted CE tickets. As soon as we were 20 miles from GIB and the captain had even got the point of announcing what we'd see out of the windows during landing, we did a sudden U-turn shortly after which the captain announced that we were diverting to AGP. This is a common occurence which I knew happened from time to time, and the reason on this occasion was sudden fog and a radar failure at GIB. The captain informed us that the MON and EZY flights were likewise being diverted to AGP, and true enough we saw the MON flight sitting right alongside us at AGP, all well away from the terminal building.

One of the first things the captain did was arrange refuelling of the A319 which seemed to take rather a long time while the tanker parked in front of the left hand wing. This prevented an attempt by an airport bus to stop to the front left side of the aircraft, so no passengers could get off. The long time taken to refuel suggested to me that the aircraft had enough fuel to return to LHR and may be too heavy to land on the one-mile runway at GIB. There were no BA ground staff at AGP except for an unhelpful woman from IB who couldn't even tell us where to find baggage trolleys (landside with re-entry using a boarding pass and travel document). When I protested at her prediction of a 3-hour coach journey to GIB, she said she was following instructions from BA and refused to provide any faster means of transport to GIB even for CE passengers. Although we landed at AGP at 12:32 (scheduled 11:55 at GIB), the two coaches to GIB did not leave AGP until 14:45 and arrived at GIB at 16:25. Furthermore, there were no BA ground staff at GIB when we eventually arrived there.

While on the coach between AGP and GIB, another passenger heard from a friend that the MON flight had taken off from AGP and landed at GIB. When we finally arrived at GIB, the fog had cleared and there were clear skies. Clearly BA could also have flown from AGP to GIB, but I suspect the aircraft had too much fuel to land there. The aircraft had to wait at AGP for the GIB-LHR passengers to be taken by coach from GIB to AGP, but it would have been quicker for BA to fly it to GIB and pick them up from there.

During the 4-hour delay, we were offered no refreshments, not even water, contrary to EU Regulation 261/2004. We had been given breakfast on the flight which left LHR at 08:00, but had received no lunch and no opportunity even to buy other food or drink until reaching GIB at 16:25. After paying for CE tickets, I expected much better treatment and care from BA. I even phoned BAEC from AGP asking for their help and telling them that time was of the essence, but they failed even to call me back.

BA might argue that these were circumstances outside its control, but the MON flight managed to land eventually at GIB, well before BA's coaches arrived there. These circumstances are very common and the procedure is supposed to be well rehearsed, although the crew seemed to have little idea what to do. I accept that things can go wrong, but one of the reasons I pay more to fly BA, particularly in CE, is so that if things do go wrong, BA normally treats people a lot better than budget carriers. What as a Silver EC member and CE passenger should I expect from BA in recompense for this bad treatment?
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 2:55 pm
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Sorry to hear about your delay but to be honest apart from maybe the refreshments I would say you have nothing really to complain about. BA got you there in the end.....albeit by coach rather than by air.
You are speculating on the reasons why they didn't fly to GIB rather than knowing the true facts.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 3:00 pm
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Originally Posted by HIDDY
You are speculating on the reasons why they didn't fly to GIB rather than knowing the true facts.
Yes, possibly I don't know all the facts and I am speculating a little. But can anyone comment as to whether an A319 can land on a one-mile runway with a full tank of fuel?
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 3:27 pm
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Id be surprised if it was recommended to land an A319 with "full fuel "
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 3:27 pm
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Originally Posted by nfh
Yes, possibly I don't know all the facts and I am speculating a little. But can anyone comment as to whether an A319 can land on a one-mile runway with a full tank of fuel?
its par for the course for GIB, the ground staff are pretty quick off the mark, the coach leaves GIB for AGP within about 15 mins of the flight being diverted so probably quicker to go by coach from AGP to GIB than wait for a slot, trundle round the coast and land at GIB. Conditions change in minutes and change back in minutes so if your flight doesnt land but another airline does, its luck of the draw!. I am not sure about landing full of fuel but it is only a tiny runway.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 3:31 pm
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Originally Posted by nfh
What as a Silver EC member and CE passenger should I expect from BA in recompense for this bad treatment?
I would just shrug it off, its one of the "joys" of flying to GIB
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 3:35 pm
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Is the full tank of fuel comment not speculation as well, though? I find it difficult to see how you could know how much fuel was being pumped, unless airport fuel pumps are like the ones you get at Tesco and you saw the numbers rising!

But who's to say they weren't taking on fuel thinking they might get up and away towards the original destination but have to circle or divert again should conditions worsen? I can speculate as well.

All things considered, it wasn't ideal or as planned but BA did get you to your destination. And the weather is outside their control! I have to say I struggle with the idea of describing this as 'bad' treatment by BA.

Edit: On second thoughts, I can agree that not having a drink for 4+ hours is bad and would have expected the bus to have say bottles of water available, but I'm still not convinced on the other points.

Last edited by JamieT; Jul 22, 2010 at 3:43 pm Reason: Add additional thoughts
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 3:49 pm
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I agree that the lack of water and other refreshments is a bit poor, but I do not think I would be too upset with other aspects of the situation.

You do not know for sure that the aircraft had 'full fuel' either, and to speculate based on the fact that it took a long time it took to refuel is, to me, not sufficiently reliable.

Weather, especially fog, can come and go very easily. For all you know, if BA flight had departed for GIB again, it may have had to come back again, causing further delay. Just because one airline got in, it does mean the another should have got in, because things change.

I think you have just been exposed to one of the less pleasant aspects of air travel. It's often unavoidable. Bear in mind that airlines want to avoid these situations as much as you do, maybe even more so.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 3:51 pm
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Originally Posted by nfh
Yes, possibly I don't know all the facts and I am speculating a little. But can anyone comment as to whether an A319 can land on a one-mile runway with a full tank of fuel?
Yes. Landing a fully laden A319 at sea level requires a shade over 2,200 feet useable runway length. However, I have never know a pilot completely fill an aircraft yet. (except Concorde - when Gatwick was paying the bill - lol!!!)

Takeoff, however, fully laden would require 6,180 feet - 180 feet more than Gibraltar's 6000 feet strip.

As you rightly say, Gibraltar is rather prone to sudden fogs (high gusting winds affect us badly too from time to time) and regulars are used to last minute diversions - a bitn like our Channel Islands customers really.

However, it is usual once we divert from Gibraltar to Malaga to stick with the ground transport plan for all sorts of reasons, some of them political. (Spain all these years later still deeply resents Britain having a "possession" on the corner of their country to control Mediterranean shipping.)

It may not appear so, but you are actually one of the more fortunate passengers. Many seamen bound for Gibraltar have documents that allow them to enter the UK (including GIB), but not Spain, so they end up having to come back to London and try again later!

We can but apologise for the inconvenience and I can confirm that you would have been entitled to refreshments under the EC directive. I can only guess that the staff in Malaga were caught off guard by the suddenness of the diversion - I'm not excusing this, by the way - merely offering what could be a reason.

The cabin crew and flight crew, beyond getting you safely on to the ground and into the terminal buildings wouldn't have the faintest idea what to do about organising transport or refreshments. Usually, the captain and first officer will contact the BA station manager and place you in his/her hands.

What happened to go wrong, I have no idea but if you bash an email off to Customer Relations, your experience will be investigated and any offer will be made based on the case's own merits.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 3:58 pm
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I know it's not great news to be diverted - happened to me twice, the second time meaning I had an enforced night away with no spare clothes, toothbrush etc.

BA were in a no win situation - people will complain if they bus them to GIB, but might be complaining more if they sat and waited for hours in the hope that they could fly there later in the day, and couldn't!

I think they probably made the right decision at the end of the day to bus, as that way you were going to get to GIB.

If the bus left so late after you landed were you not able to purchase refreshments before boarding the bus?
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 4:11 pm
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That there were no BA groundstaff waiting at AGP isn't surprising seeing the flight wasn't expected. Likewise the apparent delay in getting the buses.

In terms of getting from AGP to GIB there are 2 options - wait for the fog to clear and fly there, or get the pax onto buses. MON went for the former strategy, BA for the latter. MON guessed right, BA looked a bit stupid. But things could easily have ended up the other way around had your bus reached GIB as the MON pax were still in AGP.

Hard to see any real cause for complaint - even as far as food goes supplying it would probably have delayed your arrival in GIB even more.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 4:25 pm
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Just to add a couple of points. Refueling trucks generally are positioned in a manner that they don't impact on the ability of passenger buses to be used. Knowing the situation as bealine stated with the fact that we would likely have had persons on the aircraft who could legally enter the UK, but not Spain, on the aircraft. It is more likely that part of the issue with getting passengers off could have been partly down to the issue of discussing the situation with Spanish immigration. In the UK we have similar issues if we have a flight that can't go, but have nationalities on board who do not have the right to enter the UK and have to notify immigration officials.

As for the time it took for the coaches to leave, again, in the larger scope, it wasn't unusually long. It was just over 2 hours from landing, factor in the landing time and taxi time, along with the time to get onto the buses and into the terminal. Then there is immigration and baggage collection. While this is happening, the ground staff would have been arranging the coaches, which would not have been sitting at the airport waiting and would take time to arrive. Finally, the ground staff would have had to ensure all customers were dealt with and it is unlikely that they would send the coaches until they were certain that everyone was accommodated.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 5:36 pm
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Clearly, this situation was inconvenient. I've been in similar situations, as have other regular traveller, I'm sure. I think it's par of the course really. If you feel let down, the best tactic would be to go in telling BA they breached your rights under the EC regs.

Thank you for a non-ranting, informative post. It was beginning to feel that every post on here was either "Brit Air is the worst flight company in the universe" etc -it's nice to see something that is at least worded in a reasonable manner!

Keep us updated as to what you decide to do, and the eventual outcome.
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 2:34 am
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Am I being cynical here ??

Pinkcat states that buses leave Gib within 15 minutes of the diversion being advised.

Without knowledge of the distance GIB AGP are they using the same coaches to reduce cost.. ie GIB coaches doing a round trip rather than 2 sets of coaches doing one load full and 1 load empty.

If this is the case it must be standard SOP for any GIB diversion to be transferred by coach. Is anyone aware of a diversion which continued by air?

Poor handling of the situation for what must be a regular situation

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Old Jul 23, 2010, 2:44 am
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Just out of curiosity, do they dispatch a coach from GIB to AGP to take the LHR-bound passengers, which then returns with the inbound passengers? Timings seem to suggest they do and it would explain the delay. It would of course be much cheaper, rather than having two sets of coaches doing one way trips.
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