Cabin Crew vote for a Strike [now postponed]
Dec 14, 2009, 8:16 am
#46
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London
Programs: BA, Virgin
Posts: 10
You won't be rebooked, I guess. I assume there are very few seats remaining unsold over Christmas to most destinations. The few seats that are left will have gone by now to the few business travellers with fully flex tickets. BA will refund what you paid and the rest is up to you. In any event, there are very few alternative carriers to a lot of winter sun destinations like Barbados.
Dec 14, 2009, 8:18 am
#47
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: All over the place often South Wales and Lake District
Programs: BA Gold for Life Accor Platinum
Posts: 4,552
I'm due to fly out with my wife and 7 others to SFO on 4th Jan....will I be safe? I'm not gonna phone BA at the moment they will be extremlely busy will have to see how it pans out
Dec 14, 2009, 8:24 am
#48
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NW8 London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,065
Raffles partly beat me to it.
Historic policy is also that if you change your flight due to strike action, you get TPs and miles for both the originally booked flight and the new flight. This applies even if the strike is cancelled and you change back to the original flight. I made Silver for the first time that way (although I would have made it anyway a couple of months later) - I thought it was a mistake when the miles and TPs first posted, but a subsequent letter cleared up that it was policy.
As far as I can tell, it is in everyone's interest to change their flight as often as they can.
Historic policy is also that if you change your flight due to strike action, you get TPs and miles for both the originally booked flight and the new flight. This applies even if the strike is cancelled and you change back to the original flight. I made Silver for the first time that way (although I would have made it anyway a couple of months later) - I thought it was a mistake when the miles and TPs first posted, but a subsequent letter cleared up that it was policy.
As far as I can tell, it is in everyone's interest to change their flight as often as they can.
Myself and family have 15 seats on BA all First and Club booked over the dates!
Dec 14, 2009, 8:24 am
#49
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: BA Gold, several other less interesting cards...
Posts: 3,712
Assuming the strikes go ahead how does it work with cabin crew operating as normal on December 21st for longhauls ex-LHR. As they're due to layover somewhere for a night or two would they operate back to LHR as normal. I struggle to believe crew would stay downroute for 2 weeks and sit out the strike!
I'm due to fly to the UK (ex-US) on 12/23 and am trying to figure out if I'm good.
I'm due to fly to the UK (ex-US) on 12/23 and am trying to figure out if I'm good.
Dec 14, 2009, 8:29 am
#50
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 862
Utter madness on behalf of the union. I hope it is the doing of their demise.
I read somewhere that if the changes to the crew contract for extra work were deemed legal — court decision due in February — then this strike could well be illegal if it goes ahead. If the strike is illegal then the union is liable and could apparently be made bankrupt. I sincerely hope that does happen since I hear nothing good about this union, which has the majority of its senior/power-wielding members as CSDs who commute from all over the world — they seem to be looking after their own interests.
I'm certainly not against unions — BA should have something like an employee council, run by employees for employees. It should have no membership fees for starters, representatives of different types of cabin/flight/ground/admin/office and be made to have direct links with management, which should come naturally if set up properly. And it should also have at least one member elected to the main BA Board - though I suspect that would never happen.
Look at John Lewis for an inspiring way of company and employee working together — though JL is a different business entity compared to the PLC of BA.
I read somewhere that if the changes to the crew contract for extra work were deemed legal — court decision due in February — then this strike could well be illegal if it goes ahead. If the strike is illegal then the union is liable and could apparently be made bankrupt. I sincerely hope that does happen since I hear nothing good about this union, which has the majority of its senior/power-wielding members as CSDs who commute from all over the world — they seem to be looking after their own interests.
I'm certainly not against unions — BA should have something like an employee council, run by employees for employees. It should have no membership fees for starters, representatives of different types of cabin/flight/ground/admin/office and be made to have direct links with management, which should come naturally if set up properly. And it should also have at least one member elected to the main BA Board - though I suspect that would never happen.
Look at John Lewis for an inspiring way of company and employee working together — though JL is a different business entity compared to the PLC of BA.
Dec 14, 2009, 8:31 am
#51
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 59K
Posts: 2,301
All crew downroute will operate the return flights as normal.
Dec 14, 2009, 8:32 am
#52
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, Amex Platinum, Mileage junkie, Four Seasons seeker, brings the kids in F club
Posts: 128
Seated in First,
Flights will leave LHR and operate downroute as normal. There will be no flights leaving LHR on December 22nd and onwards - except flights who will be operated by non-union members and those who are not taking part of IA. Unless WW decides to close down the airline for the duration of the IA.
Flights will leave LHR and operate downroute as normal. There will be no flights leaving LHR on December 22nd and onwards - except flights who will be operated by non-union members and those who are not taking part of IA. Unless WW decides to close down the airline for the duration of the IA.
Dec 14, 2009, 8:33 am
#53
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC (Gold), Hilton (Gold)
Posts: 4,168
Having said that, the JL model requires a change in thinking on BOTH sides of the management/employee divide and I can't see that happening at BA - the blame would lie on both sides squarely...
BAH
Dec 14, 2009, 8:36 am
#54
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: ba gold, bmi gold, hilton gold
Posts: 13
Are there any routes that will travel as priority over this period? When they are looking for flights to fill with non-striking crew?
I'm headed to Aus for 10 days right slap bang in the middle of action. Honestly thinking of cancelling as don't want to spend 5 of the 10 in airports hoping to get somewhere...
I'm headed to Aus for 10 days right slap bang in the middle of action. Honestly thinking of cancelling as don't want to spend 5 of the 10 in airports hoping to get somewhere...
Dec 14, 2009, 8:40 am
#55
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: back to my roots in Scotland!
Programs: Tamsin - what else is there to say?
Posts: 47,843
Are there any routes that will travel as priority over this period? When they are looking for flights to fill with non-striking crew?
I'm headed to Aus for 10 days right slap bang in the middle of action. Honestly thinking of cancelling as don't want to spend 5 of the 10 in airports hoping to get somewhere...
I'm headed to Aus for 10 days right slap bang in the middle of action. Honestly thinking of cancelling as don't want to spend 5 of the 10 in airports hoping to get somewhere...
Dec 14, 2009, 8:40 am
#56
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cheshire / Wherever they send me
Programs: BA Blue, Marriott Plat Life, UA Silver (thx Marriott), IHG Gold, Accor Plat, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 943
just posted on BA.com via Twitter.
A message from Willie Walsh
You may have heard that Unite, the union that represents our cabin crew, has threatened strike action between December 22, 2009 and January 2, 2010.
Let me say immediately we will do everything we can to assist you at what will clearly be a very difficult time if strikes go ahead. We are working hard on contingency plans, and will announce them as soon as they are finalised.
We are also urging Unite to return to the negotiating table. There are important issues on which we have asked them to put forward new ideas.
Strike action is completely unjustified.
It's no secret that British Airways is in financial difficulty. Like other global airlines, we have been hit extremely hard by the slump in business travel brought on by the world recession.
We lost £400m last year and will lose at least as much this year. These are the worst financial results in our history. Our revenue is down £1 billion, so reducing costs is absolutely essential even to begin heading back toward profitability and long-term survival.
Many of my colleagues understand this. Our pilots have agreed a pay cut. Our engineers have agreed more efficient ways of working. A third of our managers have accepted voluntary redundancy. And nearly 7,000 colleagues volunteered for salary reductions because they wanted to help this great British company in a time of need.
But our cabin crew union has refused to engage in this process seriously.
My admiration for the professionalism and skills of British Airways cabin crew is second to none. They are an absolutely vital part of our airline, and a great asset. But they have been disgracefully misled by Unite as to how our company-wide cost reduction programme would affect them.
Unite claims that we are trying to "intimidate workers into accepting poorer contracts", forcing crew to leave the company, and "attacking" their pay and allowances.
This is fiction. Our package involves no reduction in terms or conditions for existing crew. Our Heathrow crew will remain the best paid in the industry. Average earnings for cabin services directors are £56,000 on long-haul and £52,000 on short-haul. For junior crew, they are £35,000 and £26,000 respectively. According to the Civil Aviation Authority, average costs of BA crew are twice those of their Virgin Atlantic counterparts.
In fact, despite our financial backdrop, more than 10,000 of our cabin crew will receive pay rises of between two and seven per cent this year, and again next year. In the worst recession since the Second World War, these are increases many employees in other walks of life can only dream about.
We have created opportunities for voluntary redundancy, and more than 1,000 crew have taken that option. Similarly, more than 3,000 crew have volunteered to switch to part-time working.
To accommodate these requests, we have made a small change in our onboard crew numbers from Heathrow, without affecting service standards. Our Gatwick flights have been operating on equivalent crew numbers for years - with Unite's agreement.
Unite's chief complaint seems to be that we are "imposing" the changes at Heathrow. The truth is we had been discussing them with the union for nine months but, despite all the evidence of the company's (and the industry's) financial plight, Unite would not be realistic about the clear imperative to reduce costs.
We could not wait any longer. We moved ahead, making sure that our changes were squarely based on voluntary choices for individuals.
Unite claims the changes affect contractual terms and conditions. We believe they do not. The union failed to gain an injunction to prevent their introduction, but a full court hearing to settle the contractual question has been set for February 2010.
We do not understand why Unite is threatening you with disrupted travel plans now over an issue that the courts are preparing to resolve in a few weeks.
A strike can achieve nothing except huge upset and inconvenience for you. We will do our best to provide as much help and support as we can.
Willie Walsh
You may have heard that Unite, the union that represents our cabin crew, has threatened strike action between December 22, 2009 and January 2, 2010.
Let me say immediately we will do everything we can to assist you at what will clearly be a very difficult time if strikes go ahead. We are working hard on contingency plans, and will announce them as soon as they are finalised.
We are also urging Unite to return to the negotiating table. There are important issues on which we have asked them to put forward new ideas.
Strike action is completely unjustified.
It's no secret that British Airways is in financial difficulty. Like other global airlines, we have been hit extremely hard by the slump in business travel brought on by the world recession.
We lost £400m last year and will lose at least as much this year. These are the worst financial results in our history. Our revenue is down £1 billion, so reducing costs is absolutely essential even to begin heading back toward profitability and long-term survival.
Many of my colleagues understand this. Our pilots have agreed a pay cut. Our engineers have agreed more efficient ways of working. A third of our managers have accepted voluntary redundancy. And nearly 7,000 colleagues volunteered for salary reductions because they wanted to help this great British company in a time of need.
But our cabin crew union has refused to engage in this process seriously.
My admiration for the professionalism and skills of British Airways cabin crew is second to none. They are an absolutely vital part of our airline, and a great asset. But they have been disgracefully misled by Unite as to how our company-wide cost reduction programme would affect them.
Unite claims that we are trying to "intimidate workers into accepting poorer contracts", forcing crew to leave the company, and "attacking" their pay and allowances.
This is fiction. Our package involves no reduction in terms or conditions for existing crew. Our Heathrow crew will remain the best paid in the industry. Average earnings for cabin services directors are £56,000 on long-haul and £52,000 on short-haul. For junior crew, they are £35,000 and £26,000 respectively. According to the Civil Aviation Authority, average costs of BA crew are twice those of their Virgin Atlantic counterparts.
In fact, despite our financial backdrop, more than 10,000 of our cabin crew will receive pay rises of between two and seven per cent this year, and again next year. In the worst recession since the Second World War, these are increases many employees in other walks of life can only dream about.
We have created opportunities for voluntary redundancy, and more than 1,000 crew have taken that option. Similarly, more than 3,000 crew have volunteered to switch to part-time working.
To accommodate these requests, we have made a small change in our onboard crew numbers from Heathrow, without affecting service standards. Our Gatwick flights have been operating on equivalent crew numbers for years - with Unite's agreement.
Unite's chief complaint seems to be that we are "imposing" the changes at Heathrow. The truth is we had been discussing them with the union for nine months but, despite all the evidence of the company's (and the industry's) financial plight, Unite would not be realistic about the clear imperative to reduce costs.
We could not wait any longer. We moved ahead, making sure that our changes were squarely based on voluntary choices for individuals.
Unite claims the changes affect contractual terms and conditions. We believe they do not. The union failed to gain an injunction to prevent their introduction, but a full court hearing to settle the contractual question has been set for February 2010.
We do not understand why Unite is threatening you with disrupted travel plans now over an issue that the courts are preparing to resolve in a few weeks.
A strike can achieve nothing except huge upset and inconvenience for you. We will do our best to provide as much help and support as we can.
Willie Walsh
Dec 14, 2009, 8:43 am
#57
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Programs: Marco Polo Gold, Skywards Gold, BA Gold, SPG Gold, HiltonHonors Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 169
So do you think outgoing flights from LHR to the US will be unaffected? I fly LHR-ATL on the 21st, but am now worried that crew would somehow not fly out on the 21st in order to not get stuck. But sounds like you are saying its more likely they will operate the return flights for those outgoing on the 21st rather than affect outgoing flights from LHR on the 21st.
It's a shame, but this sort of stupid 1970's 'British Leyland' mentality is the reason that I have gone from Gold to not having taken a BA flight in 18 months.
Dec 14, 2009, 8:45 am
#58
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, Amex Platinum, Mileage junkie, Four Seasons seeker, brings the kids in F club
Posts: 128
This sounds logical to me, so I hope thats the way it works out. Although i suspect the 21st may still see some shuffles. Ugh.
Here is betting I end up missing my connecting flight from ATL even if my LHR-ATL goes ahead as scheduled on the 21st.
Dec 14, 2009, 8:45 am
#59
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
Programs: AS, DL, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 2,574
On a different note - I hope that the moderators will watch this thread closely so it doesn't become a slanging match against either BA Management, or the BA Cabin Crew alike.
FWIW, I used to fly as British Airways Cabin Crew on the Longhaul fleet.
I'm sorry to see that my former colleagues feel there is no choice but a strike decision. However, their is a lot more going on behind the scenes other than the soundbites you see in the media.
In the 'PR Race' to get out the facts about the reasons behind the strike, Willy Walsh is at best disingenuous when he lists pay rates of GBP 35,000/year for Junior Cabin Crew on Longhaul (source: interview today in the UK's Daily Mail).
I checked my self assesement tax return for the last full year I worked at BA: total earnings including the flight allowances designed to help pay for costs for hotel meals etc. while staying away from home was a total of GBP 17,750. Not minimum wage - but almost HALF the figures that Willy Walsh touts.
Point is - please don't believe all the hysteria that you might hear in the media during this dispute.
I sincerely hope for all BA passengers that a mutual resolve between BA and the cabin crew comes soon and that the operation does not shut down over Christmas after all. Fingers crossed.