BAHumbug

Unions are not necessarily stupid but they have a duty to protect the interests of their members. I think people forget that if it wasn't for unions then employers would ride roughshod all over their workers given half a chance. Unions allow workers to have a collective voice and bargain as an equal with their employer.

I speak as a non-union member.

I agree some unions aren't ideal but, as others have said, if you're already living on the breadline and being asked to take (in effect) a cut in salary then the view may well be 'what have I got to lose ?'. For most people on FT I'd suggest they may not understand this but cabin crew are not that well paid. Whether the salary is a fair one is not really relevant - if they can't afford a basic standard of living then something, somewhere, is wrong.

I loved this quote from StevieJ who berates (indirectly) the union and staff for their apparently selfish behaviour and then goes on to demonstrate a totally selfish view of his own. Priceless.

BAH

redsox1918

1) Take bird feed off European Flights
2) Long Haul flights cut backs are beyond a joke. Soon no food will be left

Biggest one:: Get rid of Willie Walsh. Majority of people in BA have no time for this clown. He killed one airline and now wants to do it to BA.

Where is Walsh today? In Las Vegas. Why should he have had 1st class on the service yesterday?? Is he to important for CW?? Maybe I should call him and ask if he will provide 1st for my Vegas flight and I pay CW.

Put a real people person as the CEO and the staff would be happy. You also have to look at the agreement which the flight deck got which included shares for a cut back and what the crew are getting.

Remember 3 1st class returns a year is more than what alot of the people earn in a year who serve us!!

Jenbel

For those of us keeping score, but not quite getting the intricacies of BA union politics, who is balloting here?

BASSA or the other lot?

Moomba

According to this site it is Unite.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20091026...t-6323e80.html

Edited to add: And although it doesn't mention it in the body of the BBC article it does mention a quote from a Unite offical in the photo credit.

Excellent journalism.

hammythehammer

It is my understanding that it is both CC unions who are balloting members.
(I stand to be corrected though).

srbrenna

Who represent both BASSA and CC89

hammythehammer

Well put. ^

Roger

Unite, according to the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8325917.stm

ETA: Gulp! Overtaken on the home stretch.

Cap'n Benj

To be fair to him, I don't think he was calling them selfish, just stupid and while he could have perhaps phrased it in a more elegant manner, his views will be similar to those held by 99% of the people who will be buying BA tickets, including me.

Raffles

BA's problem, fundamentally, is not their fault. Its long history, and the mergers that put it together, have brought together a large number of people under different contracts and conditions, most of which were drawn up in a different time.

(I am actually a beneficiary of this in my own job. I get £20k a year paid into my pension scheme because it is an inherited right from my old employer when we got absorbed into a new company. A new employee doing my job would get £0 paid into their pension by the company.)

Unfortunately for BA, there are now large numbers of new airlines in the UK (VS, EZ, FR etc etc) who hired their staff in different economic times and do not have massive pension liabilities or staff on contracts with overtly-generous (by current norms) pay schemes or perks. And, until their is a massive movement towards those levels, the company will continue to struggle. No-one likes it, but there it is.

Some of the more extreme stories you hear about union issues also make you think that the crew do not help themselves. Is it really true that the reason there are no hot towels in WT+ is that the union told BA it wouldn't be acceptable as it resulted in extra work for the crew? I imagine there are 100 more stories like this.

BAHumbug

In other words

"I'm alright Jack" ?

BAH

ThatT1Feeling

I disagree with your assessment. Surely this is the normal reaction of any customer to the failure of a supplier to deliver an agreed service?

If the staff in a supplier of services I am considering buying goes on strike, I am far more likely to be concerned about the impact is has on me than the reasons for the strike being called.

If an alternative supplier can be found, then I will use them. What's so wrong with that?

Shuttle-Bored

[Mod hat]
Can we remember to address the post, not the poster?

Ta
[/mod hat]

BAHumbug

Because I would hope (foolishly, it seems) that people MIGHT be willing to look beyond what affects them personally and see what might be called 'the bigger picture'.

I agree that if your chosen supplier is likely to fail to deliver your chosen service you should make alternatives (and nowhere did I say you shouldn't), but to berate the people who supply the service and call them 'stupid' just because they aren't doing what you, personally, want ? Even though they might have a perfectly good reason for doing it ? The logical extension of not doing this (ie never taking any form of industrial action or protest) is that any worker will accept anything that their employer asks (or tells) them to do.

BAH

hammythehammer

You've been extremely lucky then . IIRC under present TUPE you could have kissed goodbye to the £20k a Year going into your pension pot.
I would hate to comment on the eroding of T&C's of someone earning £20k a Year , when in reality my own pension fund is being topped up by that amount.