Routing/miles question for SE Asia

Old Oct 22, 06, 5:46 am
  #1  
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Routing/miles question for SE Asia

My partner and I are currently planning a trip in SE Asia in September next year possibly on the following routing. (I still haven’t got fully to grip with the ANA tool and still have a few questions)

LHR – SIN (stopover) – BKK
SGN - NRT
ICN – PEK (stopover) – LHR

1. Is this routing possible on Star Alliance?
2. How much would this routing cost for ‘Miles + Money’ in Business class?

I’m not too pushed on visiting SIN, but would like to fly Singapore Airlines new business class but is there a better option via CPH?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Ta,
heggers03
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Old Oct 22, 06, 6:23 am
  #2  
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I am not entirely clear as to what your destination(s) are: in which cities do you want to actually stop and spend some time?
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Old Oct 22, 06, 6:32 am
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Originally Posted by NickB
I am not entirely clear as to what your destination(s) are: in which cities do you want to actually stop and spend some time?

The plan is to stopover in each city (i.e. SIN, BKK etc)

LHR – SIN – BKK - overland - SGN - NRT - overland - ICN – PEK – LHR
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Old Oct 22, 06, 6:51 am
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You are only entitled to one stopover per ticket, which means that you woud need 3 tickets:
1) LHR-SIN-BKK: zone 1-7: 30K+£202.50+tax
2) SGN-NRT: zone 7-8: 7.5K+£52.50+tax
3) ICN-PEK-LHR: zone 8-1: 26.25K+£180+tax

total: 63.75K+£435+tax

For 2) you could have SGN-NRT-ICN with a stopover in NRT for the same price enabling you to fly between NRT and ICN rather than go overland. AFAIK, there is no direct SGN-NRT on *A but you can do it via SIN or BKK.

For 3): there is no direct PEK-LHR on *A, but you could go via FRA on LH (or BKK/SIN/NRT on TG/SQ/NH respectively).
They may, however, baulk at the routing as going via PEK+ somewhere else is anything but the most direct route from ICN. If you have some flexibility in the ordering, it might be better to do NRT-PEK-ICN instead of NRT-ICN-PEK, as you could then do PEK-ICN-LHR returning to LHR on OZ. While not geographically the most direct route, it would probably remain acceptable as both PEK and ICN are in zone 8 and ICN-LHR is direct on OZ. This routing also allows you to route via ICN on SGN-NRT for 2) (need to check whether OZ flies to SGN, though).
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Old Oct 22, 06, 7:30 am
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Originally Posted by NickB
You are only entitled to one stopover per ticket, which means that you woud need 3 tickets:
1) LHR-SIN-BKK: zone 1-7: 30K+£202.50+tax
2) SGN-NRT: zone 7-8: 7.5K+£52.50+tax
3) ICN-PEK-LHR: zone 8-1: 26.25K+£180+tax

total: 63.75K+£435+tax
Thanks NickB,

I think I will definitely do 1 + 2 on Star but maybe need to re-think on 3. Has any one any idea when Air China will be integrated into Star? Otherwise I need to see whether I do PEK-LHR direct on BA or via FRA with LH.

regards,
heggers03
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Old Oct 22, 06, 7:49 am
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The Memorandum of Understanding confirming an invitation for Air China to join the alliance was made on the 22nd May 2006. Since these things to take some time, I would have thought at least a year or two from then...

Though Chinese businesses do tend to get things moving fairly quickly.
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Old Oct 22, 06, 3:32 pm
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remember SQ is not rolling out the new F/J/Y products across the whole fleet. new 773's only (from places like CDG and ZRH) to begin with and then presumably the A380 in/out of LHR whenever that happens (?Oct 07 is the plan at the moment but susceptible to more delays)
More detail on the SQ website of course.
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Old Oct 23, 06, 9:25 am
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Originally Posted by NickB
AFAIK, there is no direct SGN-NRT on *A but you can do it via SIN or BKK.
ANA has a non-stop service although it's not daily.
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Old Nov 2, 06, 2:04 am
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Advice also welcome on whether I can get away with this routing next year:

LHR-HKT-BKK-KMG one-way.

My 1 stopover would be in HKT (though I'd obviously have to connect via BKK). In BKK, I'd like to overnight - if I understand this correctly, as long as I depart again within 24 hours it won't count as a stopover - is that right?
Am I going to get rejected on the routing because it has to go via BKK on the outbound?

Supplementary question out of curiosity, but the miles redemption to Zone 8 (China) is less than Zone 7 (Thailand) - so, on a one-way award to say Thailand, would there be any repercussions on my booking LHR-BKK-ICN with a stopover in BKK and just not turning up for the second leg to Korea?
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Old Nov 2, 06, 4:00 am
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Originally Posted by Captain Schmidt
Advice also welcome on whether I can get away with this routing next year:

LHR-HKT-BKK-KMG one-way.

My 1 stopover would be in HKT (though I'd obviously have to connect via BKK). In BKK, I'd like to overnight - if I understand this correctly, as long as I depart again within 24 hours it won't count as a stopover - is that right?
Am I going to get rejected on the routing because it has to go via BKK on the outbound?
Why don't you get a LHR-BKK-KMG award and (shock, horror ) buy a BKK-HKT ticket separately? Domestic tickets in Thailand hardly cost a fortune.

Supplementary question out of curiosity, but the miles redemption to Zone 8 (China) is less than Zone 7 (Thailand) - so, on a one-way award to say Thailand, would there be any repercussions on my booking LHR-BKK-ICN with a stopover in BKK and just not turning up for the second leg to Korea?
There is enough information on related issues in this and other forums for you to form a view of the likely outcome. Some questions are better not asked.
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Old Nov 2, 06, 5:58 am
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Originally Posted by NickB
Why don't you get a LHR-BKK-KMG award and (shock, horror ) buy a BKK-HKT ticket separately? Domestic tickets in Thailand hardly cost a fortune.

There is enough information on related issues in this and other forums for you to form a view of the likely outcome. Some questions are better not asked.
wow thanks for the valuable contribution. i'm planning on buying a ticket for BKK-HKT-BKK, however i thought it worth asking the question considering there are two of us and we're planning doing the whole trip in business class, so not having to pay for BKK-HKT return would save us GBP250 or so, but as i said thanks anyway for your most valuable input.

i can't be bothered to even make a comment regarding your other helpful reply.
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Old Nov 14, 06, 1:07 pm
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Question Not quite SE Asia, but...

I'm bringing this thread up again because I need some routing advice of my own now, but there are two aspects to this...I realise this is a long post, so FYI, Question 1 is about the routing and helps with the answer for Question 2 - whether C+M is worth it on this occasion (the real crux of the matter) - I'm starting to think it isn't.

I'm heading off to Seoul sometime in February '07.

Question One:
The call centre tells me I can route through SIN if I want, although admittedly I forgot to clarify if they'd charge me more. As a result the options I've considered are:
(with stopovers along the way in NRT and HKG where applicable but for additional associated costs)

Redemption
Preferred: SQ CPH-SIN-ICN // SQ ICN-SIN-CPH

Second in Line: CPH-(SK)-NRT-(AN)-ICN // ICN-(TG)-HKG-(NZ)-LHR Business
But obviously costs a bit more for the inbound flight.

Others:
SK CPH-NRT-ICN // TG ICN-BKK-CPH Business
LH CPH-FRA-ICN // ICN-FRA-CPH Business
SQ MXP-SIN-ICN // ICN-SIN-MXP (admittedly I've not tried this one with the agents)

I think OZ are worth avoiding, especially on the long-haul sections so they're out of the running.
Similarly I get the impression I won't like the ANA product, but I could be wrong. NZ sounds nice, but not sure if it's worth the extra costs to Zone 1.

BTW, I'm a bit tall too, so small seats are

Question Two:
Am I actually looking at this in the right way (not so much the mathematics, more the way I'm justifying the choice of either C+M business or paid economy)?
I've calculated the cost of my choices by including all associated costs like taxes, getting to airports from UK, time off work, 25% miles bonuses and MBNA expenditure etc.

Cash + Miles Business = £530 + 36446 miles
Cash Economy = £830 (earns 25771 destination miles / 19300 status miles)
Cash Business = £1972.94 AF / £2860 SQ

But using Cash+Miles means I won't requalify for Gold without an additional flight.
I'd need another trip/holiday or a MR - @ £672 (SQ LHR-AKL)

Thus real cost of C+M = £1200 + 5106 miles

C+M value CPM = 15.12 (AF) / 32.51 (SQ) p per mile (£1200)
Cash CPM = 3.19 p per mile (£830)

(I've had a recent change of circumstances and have flown less than initially planned but still feel *G re-qual is worth it for next year at least).

As ever, your help is much appreciated!

Last edited by jbfield; Nov 15, 06 at 7:27 am Reason: Correcting "SK" to "AN"
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Old Nov 14, 06, 7:47 pm
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this sounds as complicated as my own calculations...

How about option 4:
A Great Escapade RTW for ~900 GBP + tax
SQ: LHR-SIN-ICN-SFO and then SFO-LHR on VS (no status miles) or LAX-LHR on NZ (status miles) (I assume that you consider CPH as starting point only because of the award option)

It's your favorite routing on the outbound and a detour that earns some more miles on the inbound + date changes after the first segment are free of charge.
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Old Nov 15, 06, 4:58 am
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Originally Posted by jbfield
I'm bringing this thread up again because I need some routing advice of my own now, but there are two aspects to this...I realise this is a long post, so FYI, Question 1 is about the routing and helps with the answer for Question 2 - whether C+M is worth it on this occasion (the real crux of the matter) - I'm starting to think it isn't.

I'm heading off to Seoul sometime in February '07.

Question One:
The call centre tells me I can route through SIN if I want, although admittedly I forgot to clarify if they'd charge me more. As a result the options I've considered are:
(with stopovers along the way in NRT and HKG where applicable but for additional associated costs)

Redemption
Preferred: SQ CPH-SIN-ICN // SQ ICN-SIN-CPH

Second in Line: CPH-(SK)-NRT-(SK)-ICN // ICN-(TG)-HKG-(NZ)-LHR Business
But obviously costs a bit more for the inbound flight.

Others:
SK CPH-NRT-ICN // TG ICN-BKK-CPH Business
LH CPH-FRA-ICN // ICN-FRA-CPH Business
SQ MXP-SIN-ICN // ICN-SIN-MXP (admittedly I've not tried this one with the agents)

I think OZ are worth avoiding, especially on the long-haul sections so they're out of the running.
Similarly I get the impression I won't like the ANA product, but I could be wrong. NZ sounds nice, but not sure if it's worth the extra costs to Zone 1.

BTW, I'm a bit tall too, so small seats are

Question Two:
Am I actually looking at this in the right way (not so much the mathematics, more the way I'm justifying the choice of either C+M business or paid economy)?
I've calculated the cost of my choices by including all associated costs like taxes, getting to airports from UK, time off work, 25% miles bonuses and MBNA expenditure etc.

Cash + Miles Business = £530 + 36446 miles
Cash Economy = £830 (earns 25771 destination miles / 19300 status miles)
Cash Business = £1972.94 AF / £2860 SQ

But using Cash+Miles means I won't requalify for Gold without an additional flight.
I'd need another trip/holiday or a MR - @ £672 (SQ LHR-AKL)

Thus real cost of C+M = £1200 + 5106 miles

C+M value CPM = 15.12 (AF) / 32.51 (SQ) p per mile (£1200)
Cash CPM = 3.19 p per mile (£830)

(I've had a recent change of circumstances and have flown less than initially planned but still feel *G re-qual is worth it for next year at least).

As ever, your help is much appreciated!

1, SK does not operate between NRT and ICN.

2, SQ's LHR-SIN-China(PEK/PVG etc) fare is apporx. 565 GBP in M class, 650 GBP in B class.(+ taxes 164 GBP) This will give you approx. 19,000 miles.
This ticket can be bought through SQ's website.
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Old Nov 15, 06, 7:24 am
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Thank you for the suggestions

jarino,
I've looked up more information on the Great Escapade. Seems the following route, maximised for miles, is possible.
LHR-(SQ)-SIN-(SQ)-BWN-(SQ)-SIN-(SQ)-ICN-(SQ)-SIN-(SQ)-NRT-(SQ)-LAX-(NZ)-LHR

Booking into M on SQ and Q on NZ, but I've been warned that there maybe codeshares involved on certain flights so something I'll have to bare in mind.
Gets me about 37038 miles and comes to £1037.20 with taxes but excluding the booking fee. (The extra status miles will be wasted)

So an extra £244.30 for an extra 11756 miles @ 2.1 p per mile.
or an overall total of 2.8 p per mile including all expected costs.

This option does sound tempting!

You are also correct in thinking CPH was a starting point for the sole purpose of reducing the miles for redemption.

AHO Your right. SK doesn't flight NRT-ICN. A typo which I should have written as AN or OZ.

SQ's LHR-SIN-China(PEK/PVG etc) idea looks good but the price of China - ICN flights makes it prohibitive (at least the ones I've seen), even if this part was a redemption booking. Plus the cost or hassle of getting a double or multiple entry visa makes it uncompetitive in comparison with LHR-SIN-ICN
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