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-   -   Routing/miles question for SE Asia (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/bmi-diamond-club/615676-routing-miles-question-se-asia.html)

heggers03 Oct 22, 2006 4:46 am

Routing/miles question for SE Asia
 
My partner and I are currently planning a trip in SE Asia in September next year possibly on the following routing. (I still haven’t got fully to grip with the ANA tool and still have a few questions)

LHR – SIN (stopover) – BKK
SGN - NRT
ICN – PEK (stopover) – LHR

1. Is this routing possible on Star Alliance?
2. How much would this routing cost for ‘Miles + Money’ in Business class?

I’m not too pushed on visiting SIN, but would like to fly Singapore Airlines new business class but is there a better option via CPH?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Ta,
heggers03

NickB Oct 22, 2006 5:23 am

I am not entirely clear as to what your destination(s) are: in which cities do you want to actually stop and spend some time?

heggers03 Oct 22, 2006 5:32 am


Originally Posted by NickB
I am not entirely clear as to what your destination(s) are: in which cities do you want to actually stop and spend some time?


The plan is to stopover in each city (i.e. SIN, BKK etc)

LHR – SIN – BKK - overland - SGN - NRT - overland - ICN – PEK – LHR

NickB Oct 22, 2006 5:51 am

You are only entitled to one stopover per ticket, which means that you woud need 3 tickets:
1) LHR-SIN-BKK: zone 1-7: 30K+£202.50+tax
2) SGN-NRT: zone 7-8: 7.5K+£52.50+tax
3) ICN-PEK-LHR: zone 8-1: 26.25K+£180+tax

total: 63.75K+£435+tax

For 2) you could have SGN-NRT-ICN with a stopover in NRT for the same price enabling you to fly between NRT and ICN rather than go overland. AFAIK, there is no direct SGN-NRT on *A but you can do it via SIN or BKK.

For 3): there is no direct PEK-LHR on *A, but you could go via FRA on LH (or BKK/SIN/NRT on TG/SQ/NH respectively).
They may, however, baulk at the routing as going via PEK+ somewhere else is anything but the most direct route from ICN. If you have some flexibility in the ordering, it might be better to do NRT-PEK-ICN instead of NRT-ICN-PEK, as you could then do PEK-ICN-LHR returning to LHR on OZ. While not geographically the most direct route, it would probably remain acceptable as both PEK and ICN are in zone 8 and ICN-LHR is direct on OZ. This routing also allows you to route via ICN on SGN-NRT for 2) (need to check whether OZ flies to SGN, though).

heggers03 Oct 22, 2006 6:30 am


Originally Posted by NickB
You are only entitled to one stopover per ticket, which means that you woud need 3 tickets:
1) LHR-SIN-BKK: zone 1-7: 30K+£202.50+tax
2) SGN-NRT: zone 7-8: 7.5K+£52.50+tax
3) ICN-PEK-LHR: zone 8-1: 26.25K+£180+tax

total: 63.75K+£435+tax

Thanks NickB,

I think I will definitely do 1 + 2 on Star but maybe need to re-think on 3. Has any one any idea when Air China will be integrated into Star? Otherwise I need to see whether I do PEK-LHR direct on BA or via FRA with LH.

regards,
heggers03

jbfield Oct 22, 2006 6:49 am

The Memorandum of Understanding confirming an invitation for Air China to join the alliance was made on the 22nd May 2006. Since these things to take some time, I would have thought at least a year or two from then...

Though Chinese businesses do tend to get things moving fairly quickly.

DML Oct 22, 2006 2:32 pm

remember SQ is not rolling out the new F/J/Y products across the whole fleet. new 773's only (from places like CDG and ZRH) to begin with and then presumably the A380 in/out of LHR whenever that happens (?Oct 07 is the plan at the moment but susceptible to more delays)
More detail on the SQ website of course.

Strawb Oct 23, 2006 8:25 am


Originally Posted by NickB
AFAIK, there is no direct SGN-NRT on *A but you can do it via SIN or BKK.

ANA has a non-stop service although it's not daily.

Captain Schmidt Nov 2, 2006 1:04 am

Advice also welcome on whether I can get away with this routing next year:

LHR-HKT-BKK-KMG one-way.

My 1 stopover would be in HKT (though I'd obviously have to connect via BKK). In BKK, I'd like to overnight - if I understand this correctly, as long as I depart again within 24 hours it won't count as a stopover - is that right?
Am I going to get rejected on the routing because it has to go via BKK on the outbound?

Supplementary question out of curiosity, but the miles redemption to Zone 8 (China) is less than Zone 7 (Thailand) - so, on a one-way award to say Thailand, would there be any repercussions on my booking LHR-BKK-ICN with a stopover in BKK and just not turning up for the second leg to Korea?

NickB Nov 2, 2006 3:00 am


Originally Posted by Captain Schmidt
Advice also welcome on whether I can get away with this routing next year:

LHR-HKT-BKK-KMG one-way.

My 1 stopover would be in HKT (though I'd obviously have to connect via BKK). In BKK, I'd like to overnight - if I understand this correctly, as long as I depart again within 24 hours it won't count as a stopover - is that right?
Am I going to get rejected on the routing because it has to go via BKK on the outbound?

Why don't you get a LHR-BKK-KMG award and (shock, horror :) ) buy a BKK-HKT ticket separately? Domestic tickets in Thailand hardly cost a fortune.


Supplementary question out of curiosity, but the miles redemption to Zone 8 (China) is less than Zone 7 (Thailand) - so, on a one-way award to say Thailand, would there be any repercussions on my booking LHR-BKK-ICN with a stopover in BKK and just not turning up for the second leg to Korea?
There is enough information on related issues in this and other forums for you to form a view of the likely outcome. Some questions are better not asked.

Captain Schmidt Nov 2, 2006 4:58 am


Originally Posted by NickB
Why don't you get a LHR-BKK-KMG award and (shock, horror :) ) buy a BKK-HKT ticket separately? Domestic tickets in Thailand hardly cost a fortune.

There is enough information on related issues in this and other forums for you to form a view of the likely outcome. Some questions are better not asked.

wow thanks for the valuable contribution. i'm planning on buying a ticket for BKK-HKT-BKK, however i thought it worth asking the question considering there are two of us and we're planning doing the whole trip in business class, so not having to pay for BKK-HKT return would save us GBP250 or so, but as i said thanks anyway for your most valuable input.

i can't be bothered to even make a comment regarding your other helpful reply.

jbfield Nov 14, 2006 12:07 pm

Not quite SE Asia, but...
 
I'm bringing this thread up again because I need some routing advice of my own now, but there are two aspects to this...I realise this is a long post, so FYI, Question 1 is about the routing and helps with the answer for Question 2 - whether C+M is worth it on this occasion (the real crux of the matter) - I'm starting to think it isn't.

I'm heading off to Seoul sometime in February '07.

Question One:
The call centre tells me I can route through SIN if I want, although admittedly I forgot to clarify if they'd charge me more. As a result the options I've considered are:
(with stopovers along the way in NRT and HKG where applicable but for additional associated costs)

Redemption
Preferred: SQ CPH-SIN-ICN // SQ ICN-SIN-CPH

Second in Line: CPH-(SK)-NRT-(AN)-ICN // ICN-(TG)-HKG-(NZ)-LHR Business
But obviously costs a bit more for the inbound flight.

Others:
SK CPH-NRT-ICN // TG ICN-BKK-CPH Business
LH CPH-FRA-ICN // ICN-FRA-CPH Business
SQ MXP-SIN-ICN // ICN-SIN-MXP (admittedly I've not tried this one with the agents)

I think OZ are worth avoiding, especially on the long-haul sections so they're out of the running.
Similarly I get the impression I won't like the ANA product, but I could be wrong. NZ sounds nice, but not sure if it's worth the extra costs to Zone 1.

BTW, I'm a bit tall too, so small seats are :td:

Question Two:
Am I actually looking at this in the right way (not so much the mathematics, more the way I'm justifying the choice of either C+M business or paid economy)?
I've calculated the cost of my choices by including all associated costs like taxes, getting to airports from UK, time off work, 25% miles bonuses and MBNA expenditure etc.

Cash + Miles Business = £530 + 36446 miles
Cash Economy = £830 (earns 25771 destination miles / 19300 status miles)
Cash Business = £1972.94 AF / £2860 SQ

But using Cash+Miles means I won't requalify for Gold without an additional flight.
I'd need another trip/holiday or a MR - @ £672 (SQ LHR-AKL)

Thus real cost of C+M = £1200 + 5106 miles

C+M value CPM = 15.12 (AF) / 32.51 (SQ) p per mile (£1200)
Cash CPM = 3.19 p per mile (£830)

(I've had a recent change of circumstances and have flown less than initially planned but still feel *G re-qual is worth it for next year at least).

As ever, your help is much appreciated! :)

jarino Nov 14, 2006 6:47 pm

this sounds as complicated as my own calculations...

How about option 4:
A Great Escapade RTW for ~900 GBP + tax
SQ: LHR-SIN-ICN-SFO and then SFO-LHR on VS (no status miles) or LAX-LHR on NZ (status miles) (I assume that you consider CPH as starting point only because of the award option)

It's your favorite routing on the outbound and a detour that earns some more miles on the inbound + date changes after the first segment are free of charge.

AHO Nov 15, 2006 3:58 am


Originally Posted by jbfield
I'm bringing this thread up again because I need some routing advice of my own now, but there are two aspects to this...I realise this is a long post, so FYI, Question 1 is about the routing and helps with the answer for Question 2 - whether C+M is worth it on this occasion (the real crux of the matter) - I'm starting to think it isn't.

I'm heading off to Seoul sometime in February '07.

Question One:
The call centre tells me I can route through SIN if I want, although admittedly I forgot to clarify if they'd charge me more. As a result the options I've considered are:
(with stopovers along the way in NRT and HKG where applicable but for additional associated costs)

Redemption
Preferred: SQ CPH-SIN-ICN // SQ ICN-SIN-CPH

Second in Line: CPH-(SK)-NRT-(SK)-ICN // ICN-(TG)-HKG-(NZ)-LHR Business
But obviously costs a bit more for the inbound flight.

Others:
SK CPH-NRT-ICN // TG ICN-BKK-CPH Business
LH CPH-FRA-ICN // ICN-FRA-CPH Business
SQ MXP-SIN-ICN // ICN-SIN-MXP (admittedly I've not tried this one with the agents)

I think OZ are worth avoiding, especially on the long-haul sections so they're out of the running.
Similarly I get the impression I won't like the ANA product, but I could be wrong. NZ sounds nice, but not sure if it's worth the extra costs to Zone 1.

BTW, I'm a bit tall too, so small seats are :td:

Question Two:
Am I actually looking at this in the right way (not so much the mathematics, more the way I'm justifying the choice of either C+M business or paid economy)?
I've calculated the cost of my choices by including all associated costs like taxes, getting to airports from UK, time off work, 25% miles bonuses and MBNA expenditure etc.

Cash + Miles Business = £530 + 36446 miles
Cash Economy = £830 (earns 25771 destination miles / 19300 status miles)
Cash Business = £1972.94 AF / £2860 SQ

But using Cash+Miles means I won't requalify for Gold without an additional flight.
I'd need another trip/holiday or a MR - @ £672 (SQ LHR-AKL)

Thus real cost of C+M = £1200 + 5106 miles

C+M value CPM = 15.12 (AF) / 32.51 (SQ) p per mile (£1200)
Cash CPM = 3.19 p per mile (£830)

(I've had a recent change of circumstances and have flown less than initially planned but still feel *G re-qual is worth it for next year at least).

As ever, your help is much appreciated! :)


1, SK does not operate between NRT and ICN.

2, SQ's LHR-SIN-China(PEK/PVG etc) fare is apporx. 565 GBP in M class, 650 GBP in B class.(+ taxes 164 GBP) This will give you approx. 19,000 miles.
This ticket can be bought through SQ's website.

jbfield Nov 15, 2006 6:24 am

Thank you for the suggestions

jarino,
I've looked up more information on the Great Escapade. Seems the following route, maximised for miles, is possible.
LHR-(SQ)-SIN-(SQ)-BWN-(SQ)-SIN-(SQ)-ICN-(SQ)-SIN-(SQ)-NRT-(SQ)-LAX-(NZ)-LHR

Booking into M on SQ and Q on NZ, but I've been warned that there maybe codeshares involved on certain flights so something I'll have to bare in mind.
Gets me about 37038 miles and comes to £1037.20 with taxes but excluding the booking fee. (The extra status miles will be wasted)

So an extra £244.30 for an extra 11756 miles @ 2.1 p per mile.
or an overall total of 2.8 p per mile including all expected costs.

This option does sound tempting!

You are also correct in thinking CPH was a starting point for the sole purpose of reducing the miles for redemption.

AHO Your right. SK doesn't flight NRT-ICN. A typo which I should have written as AN or OZ.

SQ's LHR-SIN-China(PEK/PVG etc) idea looks good but the price of China - ICN flights makes it prohibitive (at least the ones I've seen), even if this part was a redemption booking. Plus the cost or hassle of getting a double or multiple entry visa makes it uncompetitive in comparison with LHR-SIN-ICN


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