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-   -   DANGER!! DANGER Will Robinson! My sensors detect a major programme change! (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/bmi-diamond-club/36610-danger-danger-will-robinson-my-sensors-detect-major-programme-change.html)

KenF Apr 17, 03 10:41 am

DANGER!! DANGER Will Robinson! My sensors detect a major programme change!
 
(To get the full effect of the title, you should imagine me flailing my arms around in front of me!)

Just been onto the DC line, and got a bombshell dropped on me.

Most account-related updates are locked out at the moment as they are doing an update *TO MOVE OVER TO A MILEAGE BASED SYSTEM* at the end of this month.

No more DC points, just miles.

No information on the conversion ratio, nor the new earnings multipliers for C,F, nor the new redemption levels....

Silver/Gold status will be based on mileage, not points, targets, as yet unknown.

Does seem a little short notice though doesn't it? One might almost think that they want to preclude a mad rush for redemptions at the old levels, if one were paranoid (like I am...).

Perhaps one or more of our "connected" bretheren (hi aj) might be in a position to find out more.

Letters due out next week, seemingly....

Ken.

"Finagle's First Law: The perversity of the Universe tends towards a maximum" - Larry Niven (In various Known Space stories too numerous to mention)


House Apr 17, 03 11:03 am

Could this mark a move to align the programme with LH? OS and LO already use the LH programme, and from what I read here it seems that the SK programme is pretty close too.

Who knows, we might end up with one big happy *A programme at some point in the future...

ajamieson Apr 17, 03 12:14 pm

Well that made me choke on my bacon buttie.

Yes, it's true. I had an idea they were going to introduce this in November, but it has apparently now been brought forward to May 2.

In typical Donnington Hall fashion the staff haven't actually received the memo about the detail of the changes yet and they haven't even worked out what the points/miles ratios will be. Sounds very well planned as ever http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

KenF Apr 17, 03 12:36 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ajamieson:
[b]Well that made me choke on my bacon buttie. {/b]</font>
Hope the sandwich has now been sucessfully swallowed! Sorry to have spoiled your afternoon snack http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">
Yes, it's true. I had an idea they were going to introduce this in November, but it has apparently now been brought forward to May 2.

In typical Donnington Hall fashion the staff haven't actually received the memo about the detail of the changes yet and they haven't even worked out what the points/miles ratios will be. Sounds very well planned as ever http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif
</font>
Augh! This is what I was afraid of!

If they end up with the same *A award chart as LH, then they should, by rights, use the same 35:1 transfer rate that Amex use for MR points at the moment. This would appear to keep the award levels roughly constant. If they end up stitching me for the F-Class award I've had my eye on, there will be hell to pay!!

And what about *S/*G qualification? Since most BD flyers are domestic only, moving to an LH-like qualification system would probably empty the DC lounges in a stroke! Currently you get *G with exactly 20 sectors in domestic C/D/Y - however thats only around 4,800 flown miles tops (less for me on MAN-LHR). With a "minimum earning level" of 2000 in C (like LH) you would get 40,000, which is still nothing like the current level for SEN. Unless they use the BA model and keep DC points for status (which they've told me they are not doing) I just cannot see how it's going to work.

aj - do you have any more info on the original proposal you expected in November? Are you due down for Tea and Biccies with Michael in Donnington Hall soon? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Is it too late to cash in my FSTAR1 and go to OW? (Ok, I'll wash my mouth out after that comment.)

Please, someone tell me that this is some high-fever hallucination in the aftermath of my recent return from Hong Kong?! (Cough! Cough!)

Ken.

YOWkid Apr 17, 03 1:33 pm

Maybe they'll take on more of an AC model? 18k for *S and 35k for *G at 500 miles minimum for each Y segment and 25% bonus for C?

Bond Boy Apr 17, 03 1:57 pm

Oh great...just great...

They made their first ever trading loss this last year and now they faff round with the prog !

Still, the miles thing might allow us to compare the prog better with the rest of *A.

I just dread to think of what will happen with my miles though.

If they use a 35:1 ration, I've got about 220k outstanding, God only knows where that will get me - any ideas?

Please bmi, take this opportunity to introduce a Silver / Gold bonus and a points for upgrade please !

hfly Apr 17, 03 2:45 pm

Its great if the conversion level is good. Personally I hate the point system.

small em Apr 17, 03 4:01 pm


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by KenF:
Currently you get *G with exactly 20 sectors in domestic C/D/Y</font>
Errm... isn't it 40 sectors? Which is exactly the same as LH SEN once you're earning the 25% executive bonus.

Still, it's scary stuff. Glad I recently cashed in my stash of points for 2 C-class to Vancouver.

Ewan Mebabe Apr 17, 03 4:05 pm

Look what KLM did on their programme. Its OK if you can fly LH but inter-Europe you will loose out big style.

ajamieson Apr 17, 03 5:13 pm

All kinds of possibilities I suppose...segment qualification, elite bonuses, a new super-elite tier, elimination of lowest fares for earning...

I would imagine the new program is more similar to BD's substantial shareholder, Lufthansa, than Air Canada. But one can hope.

Mileage qualification would eliminate some of the 'quirks' of the points tables. While this may be a bad thing - a possible end to the Varig/Mexicana high-earning 'scams' - it may also bring some benefits, such as ending the stingy points for Lufthansa flights.


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">posted by KenF: aj - do you have any more info on the original proposal you expected in November? Are you due down for Tea and Biccies with Michael in Donnington Hall soon? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif</font>
No details were ever forthcoming about DC although I knew some change was being planned; switching to mileage to match other *A carriers was the obvious option.

Wasn't even offered tea and biscuits the last time I was at the Hall (perhaps they forgot to load the catering?) but I did get picked up from the terminal at EMA by Sir Michael's chauffeur. And his Merc is a lot nicer inside than a Fokker 100, I can confirm.

Curly Apr 18, 03 2:41 am

Why are they offering double DC points until 30 June if the scheme will change in May?

Shareholder Apr 18, 03 7:51 am

Most programs have an either/or formula for their elite tiers. At least the AC one provides for STARSilver|Prestige after either 18K flight miles [albeit 50% flight miles on discounted intra-Canada flights] or 30 one-way segments. This latter measure is about one return flight monthly, with a couple more thrown in for good measure. STARGold|Elite at 60 segments [or 35K] or SuperElite at 100 segments [or 100K]. This latter is designed for many of those who might fly YYZ-YOW or YYZ-YUL weekly. Not as generous as BD's current program, but it does recognize short haul, frequent domestic members deserve status. Important in regions and countries where rail can be a major competitor in the domestic/regional market.

Most European airline programs have to consider these short haul travellers, since they comprise the majority of members. Whereas, Asian/SPacific carriers tend to find most active members are long haul. NAmerican programs are likely to be a balance of the two, but still heavily weighted towards short haulers. Otherwise, qualification by segments would not be provided for.

Hope the changes are not too radical.

KenF Apr 19, 03 12:36 am


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by small em:
Errm... isn't it 40 sectors? Which is exactly the same as LH SEN once you're earning the 25% executive bonus.

Still, it's scary stuff. Glad I recently cashed in my stash of points for 2 C-class to Vancouver.
</font>
Agreed! Sorry, must beware of posting after a few glasses of wine! Since most of my (previous) BD revenue flights have been on Routepasses, it's easy to get trips and segments mixed up!

Please double my quoted mileage levels!

Please, don't get me wrong, a move to a mileage based program could be a major improvement to DC, and would certainly iron out some of the grosser iniquities for people who don't just fly to/from Europe.

My concern is that if it isn't done right, it could also be a complete stitch-up! Also the lack of communication and speed of the change implies that it is being introduced "fait accompli" - which always sets alarms off in my mind.

I agree that if DC uses the current Miles&More structure for foreign members then qualification levels may remain the same (but it really does depend on your travel profile, doesn't it?), but the redemption levels and conversion rate are the key factors, aren't they?

Remember that domestic M&M members require 150K miles for SEN qualification! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

I hope the program ends up better, if so, it is timed very well for me, as, having just worked out what I would get for my FSTAR1, I was off to M&M in disgust! However, the main purpose of DC is to ensure that frequent BD dom/eur travellers end up with Gold status and benefits - it would be a bad thing if this changed!

Ken.


YOWkid Apr 19, 03 8:31 am


<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ajamieson:
I would imagine the new program is more similar to BD's substantial shareholder, Lufthansa, than Air Canada. But one can hope.</font>
Well, if by any chance they do follow AC, just don't follow the new redemption charges for free tickets...

KenF Apr 23, 03 2:09 am

OK, the cat is now officially out of the bag!

Mailout arrived this morning, now trying to make sense of it!

It's less of an "overhaul" and more of an "engine-out rebuild" with virtually every aspect of the program changing. Rather than go into it all here, I'll post the link:

http://flybmi.com/miles

Highlights:
Conversion ratio for existing DC points-miles: 40:1 (30:1 for status)
Redemptions appear to have been converted at roughly 20:1, but there has been some "fiddle factors" applied, with the US getting (relatively) more expensive, Asia-Far getting cheaper and Asia near getting more expensive.
25% mileage bonus for *S/*G
New "Status Miles" really, really favour the paid premium traveller - one long-haul in F and you're *G!
All *A redemptions have a miles+cash option That is valid for any class this looks like a very attractive way of getting up front!

Lowlights:
Discounted Economy = 50% miles, "Web-only" = 25% miles, so transatlantic "status runs" are a thing of the past!
Still no upgrade awards.

Overview:
Econ*1, Y/T*1.5, Biz*2, First*3, Cheapies as above.
16,000 status miles for *S
38,000 + *S for *G
25% bonus for *S/*G on DC miles (not status)

Not as scary as I had feared, but I think we may be in for a few "adjustments" before the year is out....

Ken.

"Fashions Come and Fashions go, but style never goes out of Fashion" - Mark Knopfler


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