Important news about diamondclub.org : LIVE from 10am 27 Oct
Nov 7, 2012, 2:55 pm
#91
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: KT7
Programs: BA & BD Gold Once Upon a Time
Posts: 530
I'm not reading that as the issue here. I think it's more the first one that you said: If someone cancels now they can get a refund, if they leave it until next year they can't.
I'm surprised BA would want to do this since it may encourage those with a 10% chance of needing to cancel to do that cancellation in the next few weeks, which will mean BA having to pay back. And of course it will cause an amount of ill will
.
I'm surprised BA would want to do this since it may encourage those with a 10% chance of needing to cancel to do that cancellation in the next few weeks, which will mean BA having to pay back. And of course it will cause an amount of ill will
."I made a booking using my destinations miles for travel after 31 December 2012, will this booking be protected?
Yes. Any flight bookings made using destinations miles will be honoured but changes or refunds are not permitted."
Interpret this as you will, but it says refunds are not permitted, rather than refunds are not permitted after 31/12/12.
Maybe as a bit of an old cynic, I see the glass as half empty.
I don't believe the legal department had a sniff of the FAQ responses before they were posted.
Nov 7, 2012, 3:37 pm
#92
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK oop north
Programs: BMI Diamond Club RIP,BAEC Silver
Posts: 1,692
We have raised these cancellation/refund questions since at least the end of September, See the questions to Diamond Club thread and posts 30 onwards with Nicci's non answer in post 32. Despite more and more questions we have been resolutely ignored. I don't intend to cancel but if I subsequently needed to then I will see the ba***rds in court. Do they really believe that they are running a customer loyalty scheme? priceless........
Can I put out another call, Is there a lawyer in the house?
Oh and of course the other related question is over the apparent refusal to re ticket in the event of involuntary changes. Would we then be cancelled without refund?
Can I put out another call, Is there a lawyer in the house?
Oh and of course the other related question is over the apparent refusal to re ticket in the event of involuntary changes. Would we then be cancelled without refund?
Nov 7, 2012, 3:49 pm
#93
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: Lots, some no/low status some high status, can't be bothered to list them :-)
Posts: 1,951
We have raised these cancellation/refund questions since at least the end of September, See the questions to Diamond Club thread and posts 30 onwards with Nicci's non answer in post 32. Despite more and more questions we have been resolutely ignored. I don't intend to cancel but if I subsequently needed to then I will see the ba***rds in court. Do they really believe that they are running a customer loyalty scheme? priceless........
Can I put out another call, Is there a lawyer in the house?
Oh and of course the other related question is over the apparent refusal to re ticket in the event of involuntary changes. Would we then be cancelled without refund?
Can I put out another call, Is there a lawyer in the house?
Oh and of course the other related question is over the apparent refusal to re ticket in the event of involuntary changes. Would we then be cancelled without refund?
I'm not happy about about it and if anything changes in my booking and I don't get my flight or refund then I will happily go to court.
Nov 7, 2012, 3:57 pm
#94
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK oop north
Programs: BMI Diamond Club RIP,BAEC Silver
Posts: 1,692
Actually I think that post number 32 answers it perfectly. I wasn't aware of her having responded to it so it seems they do intend to proceed with this decision and that's that.
I'm not happy about about it and if anything changes in my booking and I don't get my flight or refund then I will happily go to court.
I'm not happy about about it and if anything changes in my booking and I don't get my flight or refund then I will happily go to court.
Daily Telegraph (Nick Trend), Independent (Simon Calder), BBC (Watchdog) et al
Nov 7, 2012, 4:18 pm
#95
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: Lots, some no/low status some high status, can't be bothered to list them :-)
Posts: 1,951
Nov 7, 2012, 5:04 pm
#96
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
She may or may not have logged in herself. She may or may not even be in the office. It may have been another member of the office collecting PMs. She (or the other member of the office) may or may not have read this thread. She (or someone else) may be trying to find out the answer, or there may simply be nothing to say at this point.
Nov 7, 2012, 5:19 pm
#97
Join Date: Nov 2012
Programs: many
Posts: 3
I made bookings for 3 trips using my modest amount of DC miles flying as far out as possible next year. I tried to balance the need to earn a living with family commitments.
I paid sums of cash taxes and miles which in my current circumstances are huge. One of the bookings enables me to see my family who live far away. To use the miles for the bookings gives me a rare opportunity - perhaps one of the last I will have - to see my parents.
The bookings had to be made as far after 31st December 2012 as possible, due to a serious illness in my family locally. If things go as expected I will be free to travel on the miles bookings I have made.
BUT as nobody knows what is going to happen when, I simply cannot let 31st December go by. I cannot take the risk that my miles and tax and cash will be lost for nothing if family events do not unfold as expected. I currently expect to travel on the 3 bookings I have made. But I simply cannot take the risks related to involuntary flight changes or that previous statements would not be honoured. Without continued reassurance by IAG/BAEC/BA that they will honour previous statements, the only sensible course would be to cancel my bookings by late December regardless. This should return me the cash and taxes. The miles returned, even if transferred to BA, would never re-purchase me the travel I was able to book as a once in a lifetime opportunity.
If I am forced to cancel in December so as to at least get my cash and taxes and miles back, with some hope of getting a reduced value for the miles by being able to transfer them to BAEC, then I will be willing to publicise more details of my family circumstances and the human consequences of any of IAG/BAEC/BA's omissions in any forum or media including court. I'm a regular poster but am posting this under another identity for now in hopes BA might do the decent thing. (and not leave its fellow airlines the messes to sort out during passengers' actual travel - for those who do take the risk of leaving their bookings in place.)
I suspect others may also be struggling with some of the human things we all struggle with from time to time that we have to balance with our hopes to travel. Mine cannot be the only human interest story out there.
I paid sums of cash taxes and miles which in my current circumstances are huge. One of the bookings enables me to see my family who live far away. To use the miles for the bookings gives me a rare opportunity - perhaps one of the last I will have - to see my parents.
The bookings had to be made as far after 31st December 2012 as possible, due to a serious illness in my family locally. If things go as expected I will be free to travel on the miles bookings I have made.
BUT as nobody knows what is going to happen when, I simply cannot let 31st December go by. I cannot take the risk that my miles and tax and cash will be lost for nothing if family events do not unfold as expected. I currently expect to travel on the 3 bookings I have made. But I simply cannot take the risks related to involuntary flight changes or that previous statements would not be honoured. Without continued reassurance by IAG/BAEC/BA that they will honour previous statements, the only sensible course would be to cancel my bookings by late December regardless. This should return me the cash and taxes. The miles returned, even if transferred to BA, would never re-purchase me the travel I was able to book as a once in a lifetime opportunity.
If I am forced to cancel in December so as to at least get my cash and taxes and miles back, with some hope of getting a reduced value for the miles by being able to transfer them to BAEC, then I will be willing to publicise more details of my family circumstances and the human consequences of any of IAG/BAEC/BA's omissions in any forum or media including court. I'm a regular poster but am posting this under another identity for now in hopes BA might do the decent thing. (and not leave its fellow airlines the messes to sort out during passengers' actual travel - for those who do take the risk of leaving their bookings in place.)
I suspect others may also be struggling with some of the human things we all struggle with from time to time that we have to balance with our hopes to travel. Mine cannot be the only human interest story out there.
Nov 8, 2012, 1:02 am
#98
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: KT7
Programs: BA & BD Gold Once Upon a Time
Posts: 530
I don't think that stalking either of Nicci's accounts is going to help, serious though this issue is.
She may or may not have logged in herself. She may or may not even be in the office. It may have been another member of the office collecting PMs. She (or the other member of the office) may or may not have read this thread. She (or someone else) may be trying to find out the answer, or there may simply be nothing to say at this point.
She may or may not have logged in herself. She may or may not even be in the office. It may have been another member of the office collecting PMs. She (or the other member of the office) may or may not have read this thread. She (or someone else) may be trying to find out the answer, or there may simply be nothing to say at this point.
Also, I'm no fool - Nicci is reading this stuff. The same questions are appearing over and over as numerous posts in multiple threads. Apart from a one line confirmation over a week ago, there has been nada, zilch, zero.
Nicci is a comapny representative assigned to this forum because the members on this forum represent a cross section of very high spending corporate business travellers, who mostly have a choice of airlines they can travel with.
We have been offered a service from the 'company representative' to assist us with the transition of DC to closure, yet when a highly controversial point is identified and challenged, the company representative has melted away.
Nov 8, 2012, 3:05 am
#99
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: Lots, some no/low status some high status, can't be bothered to list them :-)
Posts: 1,951
I made bookings for 3 trips using my modest amount of DC miles flying as far out as possible next year. I tried to balance the need to earn a living with family commitments.
I paid sums of cash taxes and miles which in my current circumstances are huge. One of the bookings enables me to see my family who live far away. To use the miles for the bookings gives me a rare opportunity - perhaps one of the last I will have - to see my parents.
The bookings had to be made as far after 31st December 2012 as possible, due to a serious illness in my family locally. If things go as expected I will be free to travel on the miles bookings I have made.
BUT as nobody knows what is going to happen when, I simply cannot let 31st December go by. I cannot take the risk that my miles and tax and cash will be lost for nothing if family events do not unfold as expected. I currently expect to travel on the 3 bookings I have made. But I simply cannot take the risks related to involuntary flight changes or that previous statements would not be honoured. Without continued reassurance by IAG/BAEC/BA that they will honour previous statements, the only sensible course would be to cancel my bookings by late December regardless. This should return me the cash and taxes. The miles returned, even if transferred to BA, would never re-purchase me the travel I was able to book as a once in a lifetime opportunity.
If I am forced to cancel in December so as to at least get my cash and taxes and miles back, with some hope of getting a reduced value for the miles by being able to transfer them to BAEC, then I will be willing to publicise more details of my family circumstances and the human consequences of any of IAG/BAEC/BA's omissions in any forum or media including court. I'm a regular poster but am posting this under another identity for now in hopes BA might do the decent thing. (and not leave its fellow airlines the messes to sort out during passengers' actual travel - for those who do take the risk of leaving their bookings in place.)
I suspect others may also be struggling with some of the human things we all struggle with from time to time that we have to balance with our hopes to travel. Mine cannot be the only human interest story out there.
I paid sums of cash taxes and miles which in my current circumstances are huge. One of the bookings enables me to see my family who live far away. To use the miles for the bookings gives me a rare opportunity - perhaps one of the last I will have - to see my parents.
The bookings had to be made as far after 31st December 2012 as possible, due to a serious illness in my family locally. If things go as expected I will be free to travel on the miles bookings I have made.
BUT as nobody knows what is going to happen when, I simply cannot let 31st December go by. I cannot take the risk that my miles and tax and cash will be lost for nothing if family events do not unfold as expected. I currently expect to travel on the 3 bookings I have made. But I simply cannot take the risks related to involuntary flight changes or that previous statements would not be honoured. Without continued reassurance by IAG/BAEC/BA that they will honour previous statements, the only sensible course would be to cancel my bookings by late December regardless. This should return me the cash and taxes. The miles returned, even if transferred to BA, would never re-purchase me the travel I was able to book as a once in a lifetime opportunity.
If I am forced to cancel in December so as to at least get my cash and taxes and miles back, with some hope of getting a reduced value for the miles by being able to transfer them to BAEC, then I will be willing to publicise more details of my family circumstances and the human consequences of any of IAG/BAEC/BA's omissions in any forum or media including court. I'm a regular poster but am posting this under another identity for now in hopes BA might do the decent thing. (and not leave its fellow airlines the messes to sort out during passengers' actual travel - for those who do take the risk of leaving their bookings in place.)
I suspect others may also be struggling with some of the human things we all struggle with from time to time that we have to balance with our hopes to travel. Mine cannot be the only human interest story out there.
Whilst I empathise with the personal circumstances (from what I can read between the lines) they are irrelevant to this line BA are taking. I suspect you would've redeemed for business or first class with your miles & cash. If you desperately still had to make the trip to see your parents for possibly the last time you could do it in economy for little difference in hard cash paid I would guess?
Nov 8, 2012, 4:11 am
#100
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mostly UK
Programs: Mucci Extraordinaire, Hilton Diamond, BA Gold (ex BD)
Posts: 11,209
This doesn't affect me at all but I think it is a mistake by BA if they don't clarify their position and allow refunds after December.
BA created a lot of goodwill by allowing status matches to BAEC that matched gold for gold (many on FT thought the best we'd get is BD Gold - BA Silver) and transfers of miles to Avios on a 1:1 basis.
Why undo this effort to create goodwill by going back on your earlier statements about refunds on reward flights? As its quite easy to get a Star Alliance status match you can be sure that anyone affected by these changes won't be choosing BA as their first choice airline.
BA created a lot of goodwill by allowing status matches to BAEC that matched gold for gold (many on FT thought the best we'd get is BD Gold - BA Silver) and transfers of miles to Avios on a 1:1 basis.
Why undo this effort to create goodwill by going back on your earlier statements about refunds on reward flights? As its quite easy to get a Star Alliance status match you can be sure that anyone affected by these changes won't be choosing BA as their first choice airline.
Nov 8, 2012, 6:40 am
#101
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
That would be an entertaining Small Claims Court case.
Disappointingly, though, whilst I know many people who have sued BA and won, often handsomely, there is always a confidentiality agreement enforced by BA as part of the settlement so it can never be posted about.
Nov 8, 2012, 7:11 am
#102
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,209
This is one reason why I never booked anything during the run up to the end of redemption time......I always thought the risk was too high.
I don't remember any promises being made by BA regarding refunds when cancelling redemptions.....I might be wrong though.
I don't remember any promises being made by BA regarding refunds when cancelling redemptions.....I might be wrong though.
Nov 8, 2012, 7:19 am
#103
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA IHG
Posts: 1,370
http://www.britishairways.com/travel...q/public/en_gb
Q:As a UK-based Diamond Club member with a future award booking – what is the refund policy if I would like to cancel my future award booking?
A:The normal refund policy will apply for any cancelled award bookings. You will receive a full refund of any miles and cash paid for the booking. Any refund of destinations miles will be made into your Diamond Club account.
A:The normal refund policy will apply for any cancelled award bookings. You will receive a full refund of any miles and cash paid for the booking. Any refund of destinations miles will be made into your Diamond Club account.
Nov 8, 2012, 8:06 am
#104
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Considering that the complaint is along the lines of "Nicci's account was last used 9 hours ago and we still haven't had a comprehensive explanation and reply, so clearly she's just melted away", I don't think I'm the person being melodramatic.
She does have a job to do, of which this is only part. As 31 December is still some weeks away, I'm sure that this is far from being the most urgent issue on her plate. And difficult and serious issues - which this is - do take more time to sort out than trivia.
She does have a job to do, of which this is only part. As 31 December is still some weeks away, I'm sure that this is far from being the most urgent issue on her plate. And difficult and serious issues - which this is - do take more time to sort out than trivia.
Nov 8, 2012, 8:07 am
#105
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL (for now) and Lifetime Gold, Marriott fan thanks to Bonvoy Moments
Posts: 5,115
Important news about diamondclub.org : LIVE from 10am 27 Oct
I'll probably test this shortly - will be cancelling a SYD-LHR leg in march as have got a replacement PER-LHR award booking via QF with BA Avios (don't fancy losing a day or two of holiday flying PER-SYD!). Will update with what I'm told...