Promo: LHR DME - why is it for sale still as BD for Nov/Dec? I have an idea!
Jun 22, 2012, 6:29 am
#1
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LHR DME - why is it for sale still as BD for Nov/Dec? I have an idea!
On checking Bmi/ba.com there is still the BD flight number and A320/A321 service to Moscow in Oct-Dec. I thought BD would disappear by end of the summer schedule.
I have heard that due to the bi-lateral agreements there needs to be two UK carriers and two Ruski carriers on the route. I reckon another UK airline is lined up to take over the BD service and it has a red tail fin! Watch this space I reckon!
I have heard that due to the bi-lateral agreements there needs to be two UK carriers and two Ruski carriers on the route. I reckon another UK airline is lined up to take over the BD service and it has a red tail fin! Watch this space I reckon!
Jun 22, 2012, 6:45 am
#2
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That may be the case. But I think the "two UK carriers" is an upper limit, not a requirement. (i.e. there can be no more than two operating - but there doesn't have to be two).
Anyways, there is little chance of any BD booking made for that time period ending up putting you on a Virgin plane - you would, instead, end up on a BA service.
Moscow was one of the routes that has special provisions attached by the EC as a result of the bmi/BA merger:
So it seems entirely likely that, going forward, there will only be 3 carriers on the route, with Transaero being the one to benefit from old bmi slot-pairs.
Anyways, there is little chance of any BD booking made for that time period ending up putting you on a Virgin plane - you would, instead, end up on a BA service.
Moscow was one of the routes that has special provisions attached by the EC as a result of the bmi/BA merger:
Originally Posted by CAPA
Moscow
The 42 slots IAG will acquire is 14 fewer than the 56 announced at the time of the Dec-2011 deal when IAG assumed, publicly, it could acquire all of bmi's slots. Of the 14 sacrificed slots, IAG has reached an agreement with Russia's Transaero for two slots. London-Moscow (all airports included) is served by four carriers: Aeroflot, bmi, British Airways and Transaero. BA is already the largest operator and with bmi's existing capacity would have twice the capacity of the next-largest carrier, Aeroflot. Transaero deploys the least amount of capacity, and unlike SkyTeam-aligned Aeroflot, is not a member of a global alliance, making it an ideal candidate to support, as the direct competitive impact will be the least. (Russian oneworld member S7 does not serve London, but even if it did would have been unlikely to be eligible for additional slots, although its service on the route may have allayed competition concerns and not require concessions on the Moscow route.)
Moscow to London (seats per week, one way): 19-Sep-2011 to 30-Sep-2012
Source: CAPA – Centre for Aviation & Innovata
If Transaero does not end up using the slots, IAG will offer them to another carrier looking to serve the London-Moscow route or on the five other destinations the EC has flagged as where IAG's sacrificed slots can be used to (so called designated city pairs): London to Aberdeen, Cairo, Edinburgh, Nice and Riyadh, all bmi destinations. Transaero taking up two slots leaves 12 IAG more that it needs to concede. Five will be for use on the designated city pairs (Aberdeen, Cairo, Edinburgh, Moscow, Nice and Riyadh) while the remaining seven will be explicitly for Aberdeen and/or Edinburgh. On these routes, IAG was judged to have too large a hold on the market, either by number or proportionally.
The 42 slots IAG will acquire is 14 fewer than the 56 announced at the time of the Dec-2011 deal when IAG assumed, publicly, it could acquire all of bmi's slots. Of the 14 sacrificed slots, IAG has reached an agreement with Russia's Transaero for two slots. London-Moscow (all airports included) is served by four carriers: Aeroflot, bmi, British Airways and Transaero. BA is already the largest operator and with bmi's existing capacity would have twice the capacity of the next-largest carrier, Aeroflot. Transaero deploys the least amount of capacity, and unlike SkyTeam-aligned Aeroflot, is not a member of a global alliance, making it an ideal candidate to support, as the direct competitive impact will be the least. (Russian oneworld member S7 does not serve London, but even if it did would have been unlikely to be eligible for additional slots, although its service on the route may have allayed competition concerns and not require concessions on the Moscow route.)
Moscow to London (seats per week, one way): 19-Sep-2011 to 30-Sep-2012
Source: CAPA – Centre for Aviation & Innovata
If Transaero does not end up using the slots, IAG will offer them to another carrier looking to serve the London-Moscow route or on the five other destinations the EC has flagged as where IAG's sacrificed slots can be used to (so called designated city pairs): London to Aberdeen, Cairo, Edinburgh, Nice and Riyadh, all bmi destinations. Transaero taking up two slots leaves 12 IAG more that it needs to concede. Five will be for use on the designated city pairs (Aberdeen, Cairo, Edinburgh, Moscow, Nice and Riyadh) while the remaining seven will be explicitly for Aberdeen and/or Edinburgh. On these routes, IAG was judged to have too large a hold on the market, either by number or proportionally.
Last edited by irishguy28; Jun 22, 2012 at 6:52 am
Jun 22, 2012, 11:05 am
#3
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I believe that the slots referred to are already leased to Transaero by bmi in any case, basically the T&C's prevent Transaero being turfed out of their slots, they are not getting more.
Jun 22, 2012, 6:04 pm
#4
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I think that if your looking to fly to DME in December book whichever fare is the cheaper, BD/BA. I think it will matter not as come December you will end up on a BA branded aircraft operating under a BA flight number.
Its unlikely that any slots that have to be given up as a result of the take over will be taken over by anyone (SRB) this early as it takes time to get aircraft, ops etc in place for new routes.
Most likely in my opinion is that you will see 5 BA rotations a day to DME until whoever gets the slots has an operation in place to operate it
cs
Its unlikely that any slots that have to be given up as a result of the take over will be taken over by anyone (SRB) this early as it takes time to get aircraft, ops etc in place for new routes.
Most likely in my opinion is that you will see 5 BA rotations a day to DME until whoever gets the slots has an operation in place to operate it
cs
Jun 23, 2012, 1:07 am
#5
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But wasn't there a bit of excitement when BA launched the 747 from the Russian Authorities? They did not like the fact that there was potentially extra capacity on BA. I understand someone from the V airline has a few Russian stamps in thier passport from the last few months! Just maybe!
Jun 23, 2012, 11:50 am
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But wasn't there a bit of excitement when BA launched the 747 from the Russian Authorities? They did not like the fact that there was potentially extra capacity on BA. I understand someone from the V airline has a few Russian stamps in thier passport from the last few months! Just maybe!
Oh iv no doubt that the beardy one is on the case with DME.
However my point is that I think BA can keep the route with the bmi frequencies until whoever gets the slots has its operation in place, which might well be the start of the 2013 summer schedule.
Not that I know but I'm guessing that by the time the slot bidding and award is sorted out it will take a while to launch the route, pure guess work from me.
cs
Jul 10, 2012, 7:03 am
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AIUI, all that VS has so far confirmed (which I think is all that VS can so far confirm) is that it has applied for the slots for this purpose (and implicitly quietly dropped its threat to start a UK domestic operation).
Jul 10, 2012, 9:45 am
#9
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Correct. And I doubt BA will be transferring any of the BD bookings to VS either.
Jul 25, 2012, 8:28 am
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FWIW I was contacted by BD yesterday and told that my itinerary for Feb 8 had to be transferred from BD flights to existing BA flights. So I guess it is fair to say that they plan to cancel some or all BD flights on or before Feb 2013.
Understandably new mid-haul is good but getting moved from 321 to upper desk of 744 is appreciated
AX
Understandably new mid-haul is good but getting moved from 321 to upper desk of 744 is appreciated
AX
Jul 25, 2012, 8:45 am
#12
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FWIW I was contacted by BD yesterday and told that my itinerary for Feb 8 had to be transferred from BD flights to existing BA flights. So I guess it is fair to say that they plan to cancel some or all BD flights on or before Feb 2013.
Understandably new mid-haul is good but getting moved from 321 to upper desk of 744 is appreciated
AX
Understandably new mid-haul is good but getting moved from 321 to upper desk of 744 is appreciated
AX
Jul 25, 2012, 11:08 am
#13
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Indeed, I called up today regarding a different schedule change on my booking and found out that my DME - LHR had also changed (to a BA flight).
Originally booked on the 19:15 BD departure, I've been moved to the 18:10 on a 747. I see there is also an option of 19:35 which was actually preferable, but it's on a 767 so thought I'd best not select it in case it ends up being Club Europe.
I was looking forward to the new BD seats on what would have been, my last BD aircraft flight.
Originally booked on the 19:15 BD departure, I've been moved to the 18:10 on a 747. I see there is also an option of 19:35 which was actually preferable, but it's on a 767 so thought I'd best not select it in case it ends up being Club Europe.
I was looking forward to the new BD seats on what would have been, my last BD aircraft flight.
Jul 25, 2012, 4:25 pm
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Indeed, I called up today regarding a different schedule change on my booking and found out that my DME - LHR had also changed (to a BA flight).
Originally booked on the 19:15 BD departure, I've been moved to the 18:10 on a 747. I see there is also an option of 19:35 which was actually preferable, but it's on a 767 so thought I'd best not select it in case it ends up being Club Europe.
I was looking forward to the new BD seats on what would have been, my last BD aircraft flight.
Originally booked on the 19:15 BD departure, I've been moved to the 18:10 on a 747. I see there is also an option of 19:35 which was actually preferable, but it's on a 767 so thought I'd best not select it in case it ends up being Club Europe.
I was looking forward to the new BD seats on what would have been, my last BD aircraft flight.
The 763 won't be a European configured version.
The BA DME service is 1x744 and 2x763 with the 763 being the longhaul variant with a very nice club product.
cs
Jul 25, 2012, 4:38 pm
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Oh I realise it wouldn't be scheduled with a CE product, but I was more concerned about last minute switches....or was that more of a bmi thing (e.g. swapping their A321 with an A319).
So what would be better, J in a three class BA 747, or J in a two class BA 767?
I can assume the latter is going to be quicker to board and unload...according to the schedules it last takes an extra 20 minutes to fly which isn't a bad thing if the product is fine.
So what would be better, J in a three class BA 747, or J in a two class BA 767?
I can assume the latter is going to be quicker to board and unload...according to the schedules it last takes an extra 20 minutes to fly which isn't a bad thing if the product is fine.