JONNYBOY

Thanks first...
Firstly, thanks to those that replied to the first post on here or via PMs and to Goldcircle & OxonFlyer for some last minute tips.

So, secondly, after a few weeks of research I managed to figure it out (well as much as I could anyway)..... the results are below.


What is this all about again?
So if you have ever wanted to know 'as much as' how far ahead you can book award seats via Diamond Club for travel on 'bmi' and on the Star Alliance partners & the DC non-Star partners (namely when each partner usually releases their first tranche of award inventory), or how to be able to see award inventory beyond ANA's 330 day limit, or wanted to know does DC get a 'jump' on other airlines' frequent flyers, this will help and keep reading on.


Why would I want to know?
Curiousity maybe ....

BUT seriously, it should help in the few instances you are looking to book beyond an assumed 'industry standard' of 330 days, maybe for that special trip you want planned and booked early, or those hard to get seats on very popular routes (for me it is helped get hard to get biz and first class trans-pacific flights on the nicer airlines) before the big USA based programme members get their hands on the inventory too.

And you never know, as the world economy keeps picking up and airline consolidation continues there might well be less and less award inventory out there so the early bird and all that .... and then the day will come when the German's will fold us into 'M&M' and you might just feel a sudden need to get all those fancy trips booked as far ahead with DC as you can and burn your miles up with one of the best frequent flyer programmes ever!


The link to the info ...
The results are all tabulated and in a spreadsheet along with accompanying notes, the methodology and further links so you can research yourself - click on this link to access -> http://ftjonnyboy.yolasite.com/


Caveat emptor - and be kind to me!
Be warned though that things change and it is only up to date to 29 September 2010; I can't face doing the same exercise again for at least a year - what started as an hour or two try to be helpful thing has taken me about 7 evenings and a few days to pull together*. And so you know I am no technical or booking system whizz so do accept it as the best a layman can do, remembering it is been done in the spirit of trying to give something back for all the times I have managed to learn from posts on here to make my destination miles go further and by and large to where I want.

That said, highlighting any glaring errors, constructive feedback, along with anything you think could be useful to put in the notes sections is of course welcome and I will update the spreadsheet. And if you can fill in the few blanks for me on how far own members flying own metal can book award seats on Air China, Aegean, EgyptAir, Spanair or Transaero Airlines would much appreciate it so I can get the satisfaction of a complete job done! Also if you know the 'official' TAM rules then please let me know that too - I think I have got TAM right but aren't 100% sure on what happens with the booking class on Domestic/South America awards at the less than 90 day window for TAM members and more importantly for 'bmi' DC members booking awards on TAM. PMs probably better than loads of posts on here.


* FYI - the date of this post has been changed by the way so this now appears as post#2 in the list - it was added on 24 Sept 10 at 4pm just in case you wonder what TEX277 at post#11 and anyone after him are on about, or indeed any of the posters post#3 to #10 who were replying to post#1 not post#2


I don't want to click to the link - summary it on here please...
OK ... here goes ...

Key - Airline/How far ahead DC book (days)?/What's the furthest ahead I can see easily and usually for free please*(days)?/By what method?

'bmi'
'bmi'/361/355/Aeroplan and sometimes 'bmi'

Star Alliance Airlines
Adria/361/359/M&M
Aegean/184/184/ANA or ANA via KVS or Aeroplan or Continental or Expert Flyer
Air Canada/355/355/Aeroplan or Expert Flyer
Air China/361/363/Expert Flyer
Air New Zealand/354/355/Expert Flyer
ANA/355/355/ANA or Aeroplan
Asiana/351/351/Aeroplan
Austrian/361/359/M&M
blue 1/330/330/ANA or ANA via KVS or Aeroplan or Continental
brussels airlines/340/341/Aeroplan
Continental Airlines/336/337/Aeroplan or Continental
Croatia Airlines/361/359/M&M
EgyptAir/355/355/Aeroplan
LOT Polish Airlines/361/359/M&M
Lufthansa/361/359/M&M
SAS Scandanavian Airlines/330/330/ANA or ANA via KVS or Aeroplan or Continental
Singapore Airlines/354/354/Aeroplan
South African Airways/355/355/SAA Voyager
Spanair/361/339/Aeroplan
Swiss/338/339/Aeroplan
TAM/184Intercontinental+3monthsSouthAm&Domestic/184Intercontinental only/ANA or ANA via KVS
TAP Portugal/361/355/Aeroplan
Thai/340/339/Aeroplan
Turkish Airlines/354/355/Turkish Airlines Miles & Smiles
United/331/336/Continental
US Airways/331/334/US Airways Dividend Miles

'bmi' 'Partner' Airlines
bmibaby/368/NA/NA
Jet Airways/holding space - details updated once they join Oct 11th 2010
Qatar/361/334/Qatar Privilege Clyb
Transaero Airlines/11 months/NA/NA
Virgin Atlantic/336/336/Virgin Atlantic Flying Club

* For details of the 'easy access' methods click the link http://ftjonnyboy.yolasite.com/ and open the spreadsheet. All methods are free, excepting ANA via KVS (subscription but service is very quick for checking availability for less than 330 days) and Expert Flyer (but you can get a once only free 5 day trial). For sub 330 day bookings I have found ANA and ANA via KVS the easiest to use, with ANA via KVS the quickest but you pay for it; for 330 days+ then Aeroplan seemed to work best for me and often finds creative routes, but it is a little slow (the few times Aeroplan isn't recommended the other method has a jump by usually only a few days). There is another method called 'awardnexus' which meshes together a few search methods into one and by all accounts is very good - not used it but link here if you want to try http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...ard-nexus.html . M&M method is via JetFriends for the under 18s - takes 2-3 weeks to get credentials so plenty of planning ahead needed!


So with Diamond Club do we get the 'jump' on others?
Oh yep - if you take the 'industry standard' of 330 days Diamond Club is ahead of them all excepting Aegean and TAM who don't release at the 330 day window anyway, and to be honest I really couldn't figure out what is going on with Transaero Airlines as it looks to be a very 'Soviet' way of getting a 'freebie' with them!

And even ahead of own members booking via their own programmes on their own airline metal - on Adria, Austrian, Croatia Airlines, LOT Polish Airlines, Lufthansa, Qatar, Singapore, TAM, TAP & Thai when booking via the web.

BUT a bit behind on ANA, Asiana, Turkish Airlines and US Airways, and if someone can fill in the gaps mentioned above I will update to tell you about those too.


Doesn't 'bmi' Diamond Club have an 11 month ahead rule?
They do yes but it isn't very well defined and they will go as far as 361 days ahead, even further ahead with bmibaby. Further details in the link - http://ftjonnyboy.yolasite.com/


OK, that's it!
Hope you find helpful. Thanks again for the help so far in bringing this together, and for the help and top tips I have received from this forum over the years - much appreciated!


Cheers

Jonny




PS - one thing I have remembered from this is really just how good Diamond Club is for redemptions compared to other offerings out there - you could be posting award requests to the EgyptAir office, earning and burning at rubbish rates with others, being forced to book returns or having no flexibility once booked to cancel or change like some do - I will miss it when it is gone. What else do I miss ... I just so wish they would fly from Leeds Bradford again back to London and then I could use them more often for my connections (it was busy once until they set out to kill it off), and whilst we are on it I still do miss the MAN-ORD 'the business' service, and for what it is worth now it is all Lufty anyway, just bite the bullet and please do a hub and spoke into FRA or MUC from more UK stations a la KLM (Leeds please so I can avoid KLM ) .... still, what do I know ... farewell DC

JONNYBOY

***FOR EXEC SUMMARY SEE BELOW - FOR THE MORE DETAILED SUMMARY SEE POST 2***

EXEC SUMMARY
Key - Airline/How far ahead can DC book awards(days)?/What's the furthest ahead I can see easily and usually for free please*(days)?/By what method can I see myself*?

'bmi'
'bmi'/361/355/Aeroplan and sometimes 'bmi'
Star Alliance Airlines
Adria/361/359/M&M
Aegean/184/184/ANA or ANA via KVS or Aeroplan or Continental or Expert Flyer
Air Canada/355/355/Aeroplan or Expert Flyer
Air China/361/363/Expert Flyer
Air New Zealand/354/355/Expert Flyer
ANA/355/355/ANA or Aeroplan
Asiana/351/351/Aeroplan
Austrian/361/359/M&M
blue 1/330/330/ANA or ANA via KVS or Aeroplan or Continental
brussels airlines/340/341/Aeroplan
Continental Airlines/336/337/Aeroplan or Continental
Croatia Airlines/361/359/M&M
EgyptAir/355/355/Aeroplan
LOT Polish Airlines/361/359/M&M
Lufthansa/361/359/M&M
SAS Scandanavian Airlines/330/330/ANA or ANA via KVS or Aeroplan or Continental
Singapore Airlines/354/354/Aeroplan
South African Airways/355/355/SAA Voyager
Spanair/361/339/Aeroplan
Swiss/338/339/Aeroplan
TAM/184Intercontinental+3monthsSouthAm&Domestic/184Intercontinental only/ANA or ANA via KVS
TAP Portugal/361/355/Aeroplan
Thai/340/339/Aeroplan
Turkish Airlines/354/355/Turkish Airlines Miles & Smiles
United/331/336/Continental
US Airways/331/334/US Airways Dividend Miles
'bmi' 'Partner' Airlines
bmibaby/368/NA/NA
Jet Airways/holding space - info updated once joined 11 Oct 10Qatar/361/334/Qatar Privilege Clyb
Transaero Airlines/11 months/NA/NA
Virgin Atlantic/336/336/Virgin Atlantic Flying Club

Spreadsheet & notes link ... -> http://ftjonnyboy.yolasite.com/


* For details of the 'easy access' methods click the link http://ftjonnyboy.yolasite.com/ and open the spreadsheet. All methods are free, excepting ANA via KVS (subscription but service is very quick for checking availability for less than 330 days) and Expert Flyer (but you can get a once only free 5 day trial). For sub 330 day bookings I have found ANA and ANA via KVS the easiest to use, with ANA via KVS the quickest but you pay for it; for 330 days+ then Aeroplan seemed to work best for me and often finds creative routes, but it is a little slow. M&M method is via JetFriends for the under 18s - takes 2-3 weeks to get credentials so plenty of planning ahead needed!
END OF EXEC SUMMARY

*******END OF EXEC SUMMARY - ORIGINAL POST 1 BELOW*******



ORIGINAL POST 1
The original post will be edited as info comes in to fill the blanks - thanks!


***ALL INFO COLLECTED NOW - SEE POST 2 FOR THE DETAILED SUMMARY & SPREADSHEET LINK***

Hi there

I have looked and cannot find the answers, so hopefully some of you can help fill in the blanks and the info will be of use to others too.

If it was a redemption booking for me I wouldn't care less and take my chances closer the time. But this one is for others and on routes where First/Biz availability is hard to find unless you jump on the seats when they are released so hence my unusual forward planning...

Anyway here are the 2 questions:-


1) How far in advance can you book 'bmi' award seats via the ICC and when are they loaded?


'Phoned the ICC and told lots of different things, with a consensus from agents around 11 months ahead. BUT persevered and eventually found a helpful agent that would try to do a booking more than 11 months ahead and we checked over a few different days and worked out that it is possible to book 361 days ahead, strikingly similar to LH M&M; today (13 Sept 2010) could have booked for 9 Sept 2011 but not any further forward.

The story on-line for 'bmi' award seats is different and on 11 Sept could book 354 days ahead, on 12 Sept could book 353 days ahead and on 13 Sept could have booked 352 days ahead, i.e. as far ahead as end of current month + 11 months, up to a maximum of 359 days ahead (checked this on Oct 1st 2010).

So from this it seems safe to assume if you go via the ICC, and get a helpful agent, it is at the 361 day mark they can take bookings from and open up their seats, and I would guess if other * awards are open then they could book those too?


2) When do the various *Alliance partners first release Award seats?

I appreciate that availability often opens up nearer the time and on same routes hardly ever does, but it is not all like that and interested when each airline normally first opens up its main tranche of award seats for its own flights (no code-shares). And this is the regular variety that is, not like the ones or similar in some programmes where you can pay double miles and have access to a special award class or revenue class converted into an award seat AND most importantly that 'bmi' Diamond Club can normally book for DC members (obviously!)!

And I do appreciate just because they have opened their regular award seats up to their own members it doesn't necessarily mean that they are always going to be open to book by 'bmi' as some airlines block booking for a while just to their own members, or some programmes block off access to * partner bookings (which I don't think 'bmi' do).

Nonetheless, it is as good a starting point as any...

So far I have worked out or gathered from other posts - the 'Original List - (roughly worked out so don't hold me to it) or have found since I first posted this - the 'Discovered List'. I have also assumed here seats open up on a daily load rather than say a once a week load:-

Original List

* 'bmi' - 361 days though expect to be told it is 11 months

* LOT Polish Airlines - 361 days

* Lufthansa - 361 days

* ANA - 355 days

* Singapore Airlines - 354 days

* brussels airlines - 340 days

* Swiss - 338 days

* United Airlines - 331 days

* TAM - 184 days International; 3 months Domestic



Discovered List - Info on other * airlines from other posters/subsequent discovery

* Adria - 361 days

* Air China - 361 days

* Austrian - 361 days

* Croatia Airlines - 361 days

* Spanair - 361 days

* TAP Portugal - 361 days

* Air Canada - 355 days (thank you YQMer)

* EgyptAir - 355 days

* South African Airways - 355 days

* Air New Zealand - 354 days (thank you TEX277)

* Turkish Airlines - 354 days

* Asiana - 351 days

* Thai Airways - 340 days

* Continental Airlines - 336 days

* US Airways - 331 days

* SAS Scandanvian Airlines - 330 days (thank you Svantevit)

* blue 1 - 330 days

* Aegean - 184-193 days



***LIST NOW COMPLETE - REST OF ORIGINAL POST NO LONGER RELEVANT - THANKS FOR HELP***
Don't know for the others, esp Air New Zealand (most interested in) who I know is greater than 330 days but how far greater don't know.

So, if anyone does know for Air NZ or the missing * airlines perhaps you could add to the thread. Assuming that 'bmi' do book 361 days ahead, then for those hard to get seats with some * partners it could prove useful for all those trying to get a head-start on the usual ANA method of checking 330 days out, or give us the chance to book awards seats before the likes of say UA or CO members can wade in on * partner bookings.

I will add in underlined italics the days for those airlines I don't know that you let me know about and hope that proves useful for others too.

How you would be able to check easily without ANA at greater than 330 days out I don't know - but maybe when we are all forced to M&M we can check there too in due course.

So any help with the ?s and the missing airlines I'd appreciate. And if you have any dispute with the days ahead listed then let me know too.

Thanks all

Jonny

rankourabu

OZ - 315 days

TEX277

NZ 354 days

JONNYBOY

Thanks for the extra airlines, esp for OZ and NZ. I have added them into the first post and if anyone knows for the other missing * airlines I will add them too, and hope that will be useful for some others too.

TPJ

For I-class (Business Class) on flights from LON to AKL (via either HKG or LAX), I believe the consensus on this forum was that they open up availability 6 months in advance (if they open up at all).

WineCountryUA

very used list JONNYBOY
You have UA listed twice, Original List & No Info Yet

deant

Actually UA is 331 days out.

Also, the loading date varies by what plan you have. For example, if you want to book a LH flight with UA miles, then the LH seats open at 331 days out (vs the information you have about LH loading 361 days out).

JONNYBOY

Thanks, sorted that one out. Hope when complete it will be a useful list.

BA or bust

I think from memory that TK was 330 - but this was a tentative booking a while back. I actually did it about 5 months out (2 seats LHR-IST in the 777 in F).

TEX277

Thanks for creating such a useful thread! ^

JONNYBOY

Post 2 -> http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/14644644-post2.html and the spreadie attached to the link -> http://ftjonnyboy.yolasite.com/ now updated to include DC non-star alliance partners (detail below).

The Transaero redemption method is very 'Soviet' and a 'jump' of 31 days on Qatar Privilege Club's own members isn't bad - for those times when Star Alliance just won't take you to where you want to go!

Job on this I think all done now.

Cheers

Jonny



Key - Airline/How far ahead DC book (days)?/What's the furthest ahead I can see easily and usually for free please*(days)?/By what method?

'bmi' 'Partner' Airlines
bmibaby/368/NA/NA
Qatar/361/334/Qatar Privilege Clyb
Transaero Airlines/11 months/NA/NA
Virgin Atlantic/336/336/Virgin Atlantic Flying Club

littlevoices

Great chart JONNYBOY, and very useful!

So, to extend the discussion on this post, does anyone care to comment how/when airlines release their seats to the rest of the alliance?

Reason being, at the moment trying to plan a trip to South America using ExpertFlyer I can see a number of airlines offering seats to their own FFP (LX / UA) but not all of those seats are yet available on ANA and BMI's ticket desk can't see either.

Anyone care to offer an opinion?

ranjid

Hi guys,

I'm currently planning my last ever dc redemption. I need to go from SFO to Germany in early May 2013 which will be more than 330 days after closing of dc.

Is it possible to get awards 360 days out? Maybe only on certain airlines?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Regards,
ranj

caz312

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/bmi-d...-released.html