BritBoyInFL

Decided to try and use some DC miles accumulated over a long period of time. Now that I live in Florida I wanted a FL(Anywhere) to England (LHR/LGW/MAN/BHX) return for May.

I used the ANA tool, but anything it said was available, DC Delhi said was not !

They did have alternatives, one of which was MCO - FRA - MAN & LHR - EWR - MCO, which is fine. 45,000 miles in coach and > $500 ! ... ! My 45,000 miles roughly saved me $300 on the price of a paid ticket.

DC said there were no Virgin flights available direct from MCO - UK(MAN/LGW).

Checked with Continental and booked Virgin on the dates I wanted, MCO - MAN, LGW - MCO, for 55,000 miles and ONLY $108 !

Same 'NOT FREE' ticket price was quoted by Virgin for the same flights, >$500 in taxes and fees.

I'm happy with the solution I found, but can anyone give me a quick concise lesson in;

1) Why DC's inventory does not match ANA's *A inventory ?
2) Why DC's inventory shows no Virgin flights ?
3) Why DC & Virgin, both UK based, charge >$500 in taxes and fess for a 'free' ticket ? and why Continental, for the same flights are only $108 (Plus a few extra miles).

It looks like my Virgin & DC miles will have to wait for upgrade use, as using them for 'free' tickets results in a poor value.

caz312

can't help with the first 2

3) Why DC & Virgin, both UK based, charge >$500 in taxes and fess for a 'free' ticket ? and why Continental, for the same flights are only $108 (Plus a few extra miles).

£313 is the correct taxes for the routing that you quoted..
the taxes for the Virgin flights are over £200 - (I think the FRA transit adds a fair bit) I am not a member of the Continental program so do not know which taxes they do not pass on but I would normally expect to be charged all the taxes

I don't think DC would not allow the routing for Virgin you eventually booked as they will only book returns so I am assuming you would need to have found availability to arrive and depart from the same airport

bmi goldenboy

Redemptions in economy are a shocking waste of miles and cash, its that simple.

The real value comes from cheap business class tickets. You can also take advantage of using half the miles and pay an additional £150 return on top of the taxes to maximise the value. The taxes and charges vary dependant on the airline and routing selected. You can try and make some dummy bookings on the airlines website to get a close approximation of how much the total will be.

The UK governement levies a hefty duty on air tickets for flights departing the UK so the trip home will cost you more.

I've never had an issue with DC not matching ANA.

No-one claims free flights btw, always plus charges and taxes. I dont mind the £500- £700 return fare for a business class, I'd struggle to fund the experience myself TATL.

Its worth taking the time to read the stickies and FAQ's at the top of the forum.

BritBoyInFL

Thanks for the reply CAZ312.

I can't believe that Continental would just 'swallow' any taxes that BM/VA pass on. May be its some UK taxes that 'American' based airlines don't pay ?

Just seems weird that for the very same flights and dates Virgin is >$500 and Continental is $108.

If I look at a paid ticket for these flights, through CO, on VA equipment, it's $835 + $144.70(T&F) = $979.70. Directly with VA it's $463 + $363.30(T&F) = $826.30.

I guess Virgin keeps its 'fares' low and its 'T&F'(Taxes & Fees) high, which causes their mileage tickets to be far more expensive.

I guess there are brighter people than me who can't figure out the economics of the airline industry !

iwillflytheworld

The biggest chunk of the "taxes" that BD/Virgin charge are not taxes but YQ (fuel surcharge), which is pure revenue for the airlines. For the most part, US-based programs have refrained from collecting fuel surcharge on award bookings. Continental charges every last penny of real taxes, i.e. funds that they have to pass on to the corresponding government.

The result is that European-based programs are usually very poor value for redemptions in Y. Sometimes the "taxes" associated to the award are higher than a revenue booking.

Where BD shines at is premium redemptions, where the taxes and fees component are less of a factor (it is one thing to pay $500 in junk fees for a $800 ticket, and another for a $5000 ticket).

BritBoyInFL

Thanks BMI GoldenBoy,

My 'free' comment was tongue in cheek, as I understand the tax and fee issue (partly). Just totally gob smacked about the difference between DC & CO.

I think the ANA/DC mis-match was the usual issue of being 'who' I was speaking to in Delhi, as he made it very clear that ANA's *A availability made no difference to what his computer was telling him !

Will definitely look at getting better value by cash+miles for business travel.

Thanks.

NickB

A great chunk of these taxes are fuel surcharges. An oddity of fuel surcharges is that, while their level is determined by the operating carrier, the ticketing carrier can decide whether or not to charge them and, moreover, if they do charge them, they keep them rather than having to pay them back to the operating carrier. Your OP tickets are ticketed by CO and CO can therefore decide not to charge you the fuel surcharges. They won't 'lose' money out of it. They will simply not gain. It will make no difference to BD or VS as they would not have been paid for them anyway as it would have gone into CO's pocket.

BritBoyInFL

Thanks iwillflytheworld, I thought the days of fuel surcharges had gone since oil is within 'normal' tolerances for the last 12 months. Didn't realize that European airlines retained them, which obviously hits mileage awards hard.

Agree with everyone that $500 of 'fees' is less of an issue for a premium award, and I will look at those options next time.

jbfield

Some airlines will be increasing their fuel surcharge soon, Japanese airlines will be increasing their's in April.

GoldCircle

1. Idiot agent at the call centre. HUACA (hang up and call again) is SOP.
2. Virgin's own award inventory will not always match the inventory that they release to partners; alternatively, refer to answer no 1.
3. As said, fuel surcharges. The great irony is that the crappy US based airlines (especially US Airways have no, or low, fuel Surcharge and low taxes, so unfortunately, you kinda get what you pay for).

Florida redemptions can be kinda tricky to plan. They are easier to do at the drop of a hat. Far out Lufthansa and Swiss release seats in C (business) and F (first) and then nothing until 4-6 weeks out (ie when they know how many they are likely to actually sell for cold hard cash). In the interim, you will find sparing availability on CO and US via EWR and PHL respectively. The other trick with Florida is to check all those little airports - you can often find connections via DC, ORD etc from the most unexpected places.

EMB195

I booked a LHR/ZRH/GRU - GRU/ZRH/LHR on Swiss this week and the fuel fee was almost £200.

The total cost of the ticket on business class using my lovely DC miles was $411,82 (including Amex fee).

I totally agree with what was said before, using miles for economy tickets AND short haul flights is a total waste.

Cheers

lhr baby

Nick is absolutely correct here. In fact if you go to the Mileage Run forums you'll find whole threads written in obscure code so as not to give the game away where people have posted details of fares for which the ticketing carrier has decided not to pass on YQ and other surcharges saving literally hundreds of pounds on the final fare. CO and UA are commonly involved in such scenarios and it seems you've stumbled upon one such fare.

cfischer

Interesting thought to try and dump YQ on an award ticket ... has anyone tried this with BD redeeming on UA metal?

GoldCircle

No need to dump, when you live in DUB

NickB

Not possible. BD, at ticketing carrier, systematically applies YQ to all tickets.

Unless I have missed something, DUB might save you from APD but not from YQ, does it?