Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Avianca | LifeMiles and Amigo
Reload this Page >

LM F and J routes (and the occasional trick-it) Rebooted v2.0

LM F and J routes (and the occasional trick-it) Rebooted v2.0

    Hide Wikipost
Old Jun 8, 16, 3:57 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: TrAAveller
Wiki Link
Originally Posted by Moderator2 View Post
Every forum on Flyertalk has a personality. A forum gains a personality through user input over time, and Lifemiles is a very definitive example of how users have developed a unique community.

While Flyertalk boards actively encourage sharing of info, the Lifemiles community has developed and thrived via obscuring of certain data elements. It may not be easy for new participants to break through the codes and gain knowledge of the program's quirks, but the overall board community has adopted this unique approach. And frankly, that is not going to change overnight.

If a FT member wants to participate on this board, then they will need to respect other users. Hence, posts that run counter to this community's standards, will be removed.
Region definitions
C1 North America
C1.5 Caribbean, Bermuda
C2 Europe
C2.5 Middle East
C3 Asia
C4 South America
C5 Africa
C6 Oceania

2X, 3X: in the context of this LifeMiles thread, 2X and 3X refer to any 2nd and 3rd legs of a one-way award ticket.

LifeMiles' Star Alliance Award Chart

LifeMiles' old Star Alliance Award Chart (before Oct 15 2014) // Table of changes

Cash & Miles redemptions: the price per mile purchased during award booking varies significantly depending on how many miles are purchased. The "sweet spots" are between 38% and 58% of the total mileage required, where miles are purchased for 1.5 cents. See here for some examples.

Beware of Cabotage: LifeMiles has been known to issue tickets that constitute Cabotage, and at least one instance of denied boarding has been reported, stranding the passenger. An easily-seen example is travel on Copa from LAX to SJU (via PTY).

Understand Cabotage: Departing country 1, transiting country 2, returning to country 1 (no stopping) *is* cabotage (example: depart JFK, connect in YYZ to return to ORD, or depart Miami, connect in Bogota, return to San Francisco). On the other hand, departing country 1, going to completely unrelated country 2, and ending up in country 3, is not cabotage. So if you fly JFK-JNB-ZRH, for instance, this is completely not cabotage.

Availability: Seeing availability for *A award seats elsewhere is no guarantee they are accessible on Lifemiles. For instance award space shown on ANA often is not accessible on Lifemiles. Similarly, finding award space on single legs doesn't mean you'll get award space on the combined itinerary. And no, there is no way to overcome that.

Screenshot Method
Send email to [email protected] with attached screenshots on Lifemiles website of each individual leg showing availability. Also, screenshot showing no availability as one booking. Include passenger names, gender and DOB. They will either call you for payment or email the itinerary and give you 3 days to call up and make payment by CC.

NOTE: This previous thread has been closed; it can be read here LM F and J routes (and the occasional trick-it)
Print Wikipost

Reply

Old May 28, 14, 8:07 am
  #76  
Marriott Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: YUL
Programs: Occasional RTW club
Posts: 6,098
Originally Posted by hannes08 View Post
Expertflyer shows also non of the "old" bummerangs anymore.

This change may be a result of the investigations of DOT...
I disagree. Many of the boomerangs were between one side of the USA and another in Canada, so that's not relevant to the DOT. For the few that were actual cabotage routes, so few were likely booked that I doubt they cared. However, I think it's significantly more likely LH simply decided it didn't want its cabins full of LifeMilers - as they were the only ones flying these insane routes - and they probably refiled their schedules.
Pseudo Nim is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 8:39 am
  #77  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Valencia, Spain
Programs: Pascal and Python, no C++
Posts: 738
I have a route on my screen now in Lifemiles which only shows up in Amadeus if you force the airline. On Lifemiles it shows up unforced, and the reason might simply be that there is a much shorter route served by TAM, which LM must avoid.

This route is a boomerang, but not an exact one in the sense Cx-Cx, but rather nearly Cx-Cx.

Before I was able to pre-pend another flight to this route, so that it truly was Cx-Cx. This other combination doesn't show up anymore, as the additional flight is on another airline, so you can't force it.

Note this has nothing to do with cabbage, nothing with UA, LH or Kitty, nothing with C1.

There have been changes, and I can buy the idea that they have happened outside LM, but right now it's very difficult to say what these changes were.

Last edited by WolfvanWeen; May 28, 14 at 2:14 pm Reason: Re-checked Amadeus with the help of germantraveler
WolfvanWeen is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 8:58 am
  #78  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Denver
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by germantraveler View Post
IMHO the now unavailable boomerangs have nothing to do with a change of LM's internal award space search algorithm.

Every (!) boomerang that used to been available on LM could be found in the Amadeus timetable so it was my conclusion that LM uses the Amadeus timetable for route search and then checks class availability on the segments found within that timetable.

When you now search for the same boomerangs in the Amadeus timetable, they are gone.


To verify my hypothesis, I did just a random search for "forced carrier" boomerangs within the Amadeus timetable and did found for example a C3-C2-C2.5...
... and: This boomerang still shows up in LM.

Final conclusion:
LM did not change anything within their algorithm...
BUT...
Amadeus changed it's timetable search algorithm.

Totally agree.

LM was pulling from the Amadeus system. The DOT likely confronted LM. LM probably told them this is not our fault; we are just pulling from the Amadeus system. Then they must have gone to the source - Amadeus and or LH as far as the boomerangs were concerned.
Plasticus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 9:12 am
  #79  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,886
Originally Posted by zlatan_tu View Post
is it possible to book suites with LM?
Yes.

Originally Posted by hannes08 View Post
Expertflyer shows also non of the "old" bummerangs anymore.

This change may be a result of the investigations of DOT...
Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim View Post
I disagree. Many of the boomerangs were between one side of the USA and another in Canada, so that's not relevant to the DOT. For the few that were actual cabotage routes, so few were likely booked that I doubt they cared. However, I think it's significantly more likely LH simply decided it didn't want its cabins full of LifeMilers - as they were the only ones flying these insane routes - and they probably refiled their schedules.
Originally Posted by Plasticus View Post
Totally agree.

LM was pulling from the Amadeus system. The DOT likely confronted LM. LM probably told them this is not our fault; we are just pulling from the Amadeus system. Then they must have gone to the source - Amadeus and or LH as far as the boomerangs were concerned.
I guess when DOT confronted LM, they showed the schedules, and LH somehow found out and refiled schedules. That's sad.

Originally Posted by WolfvanWeen View Post
I have a route on my screen now in Lifemiles which doesn't show up in Amadeus.

The route that shows up in Amadeus for the same origin destination doesn't show up in Lifemiles (which I have an explanation for: one of the legs is flown by TAM).

This route is a boomerang, but not an exact one in the sense Cx-Cx, but rather nearly Cx-Cx.

Before I was able to pre-pend another flight to this route, so that it truly was Cx-Cx. This other combination doesn't show up anymore. It has nothing to do with cabbage, nothing with UA, LH or Kitty, nothing with C1.

There have been changes, and I can buy the idea that they have happened outside LM, but right now it's very difficult to say what these changes were.
Me too. I'm showing a legal boomerang that doesn't show up on ExpertFlyer. I'm not sure if it's phantom or not.
yerffej201 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 9:33 am
  #80  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BSL/FRA
Programs: UA 1K, TK*G (not matched)
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by yerffej201 View Post
Me too. I'm showing a legal boomerang that doesn't show up on ExpertFlyer. I'm not sure if it's phantom or not.
IMHO ExpertFlyer does not use the Amadeus timetable. KVS's Timetable method does.
germantraveler is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 9:35 am
  #81  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,886
Originally Posted by germantraveler View Post
IMHO ExpertFlyer does not use the Amadeus timetable. KVS's Timetable method does.
Hmmmmm okay. I'll have to check KVS when I get back to my home computer.
yerffej201 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 11:26 am
  #82  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,007
Originally Posted by germantraveler View Post
IMHO ExpertFlyer does not use the Amadeus timetable. KVS's Timetable method does.
Why don't you give an example and tear it apart to show what do you mean?

I can hardly see Amadeus changing the timetable of 5 different airlines, 10s of different routes.

Last edited by mlqsko; May 28, 14 at 11:34 am
mlqsko is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 11:28 am
  #83  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Washington DC
Programs: United, AA, Avianca
Posts: 247
Wow, i've been gone for a few months. I come back and all he77 has broken lose around this place.

I searched for several months (2) C2-C1s and C1-C6 and C1-C2 (F) and found nothing. Is this really true or just poor availability?!
fulthrust7 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 11:41 am
  #84  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: LJU, MBX
Programs: SPG Plat 100, A3*G
Posts: 678
Originally Posted by fulthrust7 View Post
Wow, i've been gone for a few months. I come back and all he77 has broken lose around this place.

I searched for several months (2) C2-C1s and C1-C6 and C1-C2 (F) and found nothing. Is this really true or just poor availability?!
Almost everything is gone
zagy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 12:40 pm
  #85  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: IC Amb :-(, UA silver, BA Gold, SPG Plat, A-Club Plat, Marriott Plat
Posts: 900
Originally Posted by yerffej201 View Post
Yes.
The question was about booking SQ suites specifically - if that's possible would love a hint or more detail.

Originally Posted by yerffej201 View Post
I guess when DOT confronted LM, they showed the schedules, and LH somehow found out and refiled schedules. That's sad.
I expect fully there to be reactions to what has happened given the info about UA examining flights and conducting surveys. Is there any possibility that the seeming re-filing of flights by a European airline is entirely unconnected with all of our obsessing and is just a regular re-occurence?
Originally Posted by yerffej201 View Post
Me too. I'm showing a legal boomerang that doesn't show up on ExpertFlyer. I'm not sure if it's phantom or not.
I've NEVER been able to get many valid LM itin's to show up on the KVS 'timetable' - I've personally found using ITA to be a better bet, but even there I have gotten LM to price itineraries which ITA does not show revenue tickets available for (and Vice versa MANY times) ... so is there a 'definitive' way for mere mortals to see amadeus fares/routings filed?
catharsis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 12:49 pm
  #86  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: IC Amb :-(, UA silver, BA Gold, SPG Plat, A-Club Plat, Marriott Plat
Posts: 900
Originally Posted by germantraveler View Post
IMHO the now unavailable boomerangs have nothing to do with a change of LM's internal award space search algorithm.

Every (!) boomerang that used to been available on LM could be found in the Amadeus timetable so it was my conclusion that LM uses the Amadeus timetable for route search and then checks class availability on the segments found within that timetable.

When you now search for the same boomerangs in the Amadeus timetable, they are gone.


To verify my hypothesis, I did just a random search for "forced carrier" boomerangs within the Amadeus timetable and did found for example a C3-C2-C2.5...
... and: This boomerang still shows up in LM.

Final conclusion:
LM did not change anything within their algorithm...
BUT...
Amadeus changed it's timetable search algorithm.
Originally Posted by WolfvanWeen View Post
I have a route on my screen now in Lifemiles which doesn't show up in Amadeus.

The route that shows up in Amadeus for the same origin destination doesn't show up in Lifemiles (which I have an explanation for: one of the legs is flown by TAM).

This route is a boomerang, but not an exact one in the sense Cx-Cx, but rather nearly Cx-Cx.

Before I was able to pre-pend another flight to this route, so that it truly was Cx-Cx. This other combination doesn't show up anymore. It has nothing to do with cabbage, nothing with UA, LH or Kitty, nothing with C1.

There have been changes, and I can buy the idea that they have happened outside LM, but right now it's very difficult to say what these changes were.
I can price tickets right now which don't even come close to being visible in the KVS timetable.

Is the question/hypothesis posed by germantraveller related solely to 'forced carrier' itineraries? - this might make a little more sense - and matches more closely with my experiences....
catharsis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 12:49 pm
  #87  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BSL/FRA
Programs: UA 1K, TK*G (not matched)
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by mlqsko View Post
Why don't you give an example and tear it apart to show what do you mean?
Amadeus timetable <> LM connectivity example:

When looking up connections FRA-MUC forced on LO on Amadeus (for example KVS timetable method which uses Amadeus timetable) around 15AUG14, you do find non-codeshare connections via WAW... and so shows LM availability.
However, MUC-FRA forced on LO does not show any non-codeshare connections around 15AUG14... and I also do not see any LM availability.

(by the way FRA-WAW-MUC is not "cabbage-forbidden" as of EU regulations)

Originally Posted by mlqsko View Post
I can hardly see Amadeus changing the timetable of 5 different airlines, 10s of different routes.
I do not think Amadeus routings are "filed"; I cannot imagine someone sitting at Amadeus and manually entering all possible connecting flights; it rather is an algorithm that calculates possible connecting flights... I think that algorithm has been changed.
germantraveler is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 12:52 pm
  #88  
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BSL/FRA
Programs: UA 1K, TK*G (not matched)
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by catharsis View Post
I can price tickets right now which don't even come close to being visible in the KVS timetable.

Is the question/hypothesis posed by germantraveller related solely to 'forced carrier' itineraries? - this might make a little more sense - and matches more closely with my experiences....
It works on forced carrier itineraries, correct.

However, I think it's the same for non-forced itineraries because they ARE forced by LM... they are forced to *A carriers.
KVS's Amadeus access does not allow that, you can only filter the results but not influence the search itself on "only *A"/"only non-codeshare".
germantraveler is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 12:57 pm
  #89  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: IC Amb :-(, UA silver, BA Gold, SPG Plat, A-Club Plat, Marriott Plat
Posts: 900
Originally Posted by germantraveler View Post
It works on forced carrier itineraries, correct.

However, I think it's the same for non-forced itineraries – because they ARE forced by LM... they are forced to *A carriers.
KVS's Amadeus access does not allow that, you can only filter the results but not influence the search itself on "only *A"/"only non-codeshare".
Which would imply that *different results* are obtained if a search is constrained - as the 'LM Routes' are not a subset of the total set returned by Amadeus in a normal search.

We could perhaps test this hypothesis by examining whether the 'forced carrier' routes returned by this method always also show up in the KVS output when not forcing a carrier?

UPDATE: they do not - to take germantraveller s example - a straightforward search FRA-MUC never returns ANY LO options unless LO is the forced carrier.... so now, how do we get access to an amadeus timetable which allows for something like the "only *A"/"only non-codeshare" constraint referenced above :-)
catharsis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 14, 1:10 pm
  #90  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,007
Flight C2x to BKK - times are same as before, flight BKK to C2y same as before. LM prices each flight (65,000) individually and both have availability. LM used to show this as an option, but not anymore. Both flight schedules are unchanged. I have a screenshot from about 10 days ago, flight times are exactly the same on these particular dates. This was NOT a forced airline itinerary, it was one with late departure.

It was such a cheap way to visit Asia for 22,500.

Thanks Jeff.

Last edited by mlqsko; May 28, 14 at 1:22 pm
mlqsko is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread