Hotel Buffets in Jakarta and Singapore
Apr 14, 2019, 5:15 pm
#16
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,677
Which restaurant did it happen at so we can look to avoid it.
Apr 14, 2019, 7:45 pm
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
My illness was in KL and a hotel breakfast was in the time frame the medic gave me, but so were other places as well as the old favourite, cleaning teeth with tap water.
Whatever the cause and the source, I've remained exceedingly careful. Rather like someone who has gone years unperturbed by rush-hour metro rides, but finally gets pick-pocketed and then turns into the most vigilant street-wise citizen.
And now i notice things. Right now I'm in Bangkok and just back from breakfast in a top hotel. The handle of the cutlery used to transfer smoked salmon from serving dish to plate had been carelessly placed, touching the salmon: the handle thus becomes a potential direct vector in transmitting nasties from guests fingers to the food. Glass containers of milk for cereal are kept in ice buckets alongside an array of uncovered food: it's likely that water from the ice bucket will drip onto food as it is lifted to pour onto cereal. I'll feel a bit of a nerd, but I'll point this out to the F&B man later.
These observation don't so much represent dangers in themselves as signs of generalised carelessness.
I get that these things might not trouble many. But moving food from a controlled and (we trust) a tightly-regulated kitchen to an open, public environment has to increase the risk of contamination from pathogens. And, once bitten, I simply prefer to avoid the risk.
Apr 14, 2019, 8:29 pm
#18
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,677
without a forensic investigation it's virtually impossible to identify the source of food poisoning. People don't stagger out of buffets, or wherever is the site of infection, clutching their bellies: they might, but it's unlikely. The wobbles start later.
My illness was in KL and a hotel breakfast was in the time frame the medic gave me, but so were other places as well as the old favourite, cleaning teeth with tap water.
Whatever the cause and the source, I've remained exceedingly careful. Rather like someone who has gone years unperturbed by rush-hour metro rides, but finally gets pick-pocketed and then turns into the most vigilant street-wise citizen.
And now i notice things. Right now I'm in Bangkok and just back from breakfast in a top hotel. The handle of the cutlery used to transfer smoked salmon from serving dish to plate had been carelessly placed, touching the salmon: the handle thus becomes a potential direct vector in transmitting nasties from guests fingers to the food. Glass containers of milk for cereal are kept in ice buckets alongside an array of uncovered food: it's likely that water from the ice bucket will drip onto food as it is lifted to pour onto cereal. I'll feel a bit of a nerd, but I'll point this out to the F&B man later.
These observation don't so much represent dangers in themselves as signs of generalised carelessness.
I get that these things might not trouble many. But moving food from a controlled and (we trust) a tightly-regulated kitchen to an open, public environment has to increase the risk of contamination from pathogens. And, once bitten, I simply prefer to avoid the risk.
My illness was in KL and a hotel breakfast was in the time frame the medic gave me, but so were other places as well as the old favourite, cleaning teeth with tap water.
Whatever the cause and the source, I've remained exceedingly careful. Rather like someone who has gone years unperturbed by rush-hour metro rides, but finally gets pick-pocketed and then turns into the most vigilant street-wise citizen.
And now i notice things. Right now I'm in Bangkok and just back from breakfast in a top hotel. The handle of the cutlery used to transfer smoked salmon from serving dish to plate had been carelessly placed, touching the salmon: the handle thus becomes a potential direct vector in transmitting nasties from guests fingers to the food. Glass containers of milk for cereal are kept in ice buckets alongside an array of uncovered food: it's likely that water from the ice bucket will drip onto food as it is lifted to pour onto cereal. I'll feel a bit of a nerd, but I'll point this out to the F&B man later.
These observation don't so much represent dangers in themselves as signs of generalised carelessness.
I get that these things might not trouble many. But moving food from a controlled and (we trust) a tightly-regulated kitchen to an open, public environment has to increase the risk of contamination from pathogens. And, once bitten, I simply prefer to avoid the risk.
I often visit these locations so wanted to identify places in these two countries that people had personal experiences with.
My own KL experience was a poor one --- I spent a week there, and traveled to Penang afterwards. The evening that I landed in Penang I had the worst stomach upsets ever .. I didn't eat in Penang so it must have been something I ate in KL. The finger of suspicion points to the chicken burger at KLIA.....
Apr 14, 2019, 11:39 pm
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
The simple thesis is that however hygienic and well controlled food production might be, wherever the venue is located, there is significant additional risk created in laying out food where it is exposed to a largely uncontrolled environment, where it can be handled, coughed over and touched by the public. The venue, the meal and the geographic location are immaterial. It's the buffet-style presentation of food that is in question.
I no longer have appetite for that type of risk. Others might recognise it but accept it, and some simply ignore it. Fair enough.
But to discount it on the basis that food production in Singapore and Jakarta (
) is tightly controlled, that kitchens in those places are as antiseptically clean as operating theatres, seems to miss the point. Which is, again: buffet presentation creates multiple pathways to adulterate food between its exit from the kitchen and delivery to your mouth.So my response is specific to buffet dining. Not to location. I am not bashing Singapore, or for that matter, Jakarta. Nor am I singling out Malaysia or Thailand for criticism: it just happens i was caught out in the former and find my self today in buffet-land in the latter. I have little interest in Singapore, but spend a lot of time between Jakarta and Bandung, and probably eat unwisely in both places .... even though I do keep away from buffets
Apr 15, 2019, 12:25 am
#20
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,677
The simple thesis is that however hygienic and well controlled food production might be, wherever the venue is located, there is significant additional risk created in laying out food where it is exposed to a largely uncontrolled environment, where it can be handled, coughed over and touched by the public. The venue, the meal and the geographic location are immaterial. It's the buffet-style presentation of food that is in question.
I no longer have appetite for that type of risk. Others might recognise it but accept it, and some simply ignore it. Fair enough.
But to discount it on the basis that food production in Singapore and Jakarta () is tightly controlled, that kitchens in those places are as antiseptically clean as operating theatres, seems to miss the point. Which is, again: buffet presentation creates multiple pathways to adulterate food between its exit from the kitchen and delivery to your mouth.
So my response is specific to buffet dining. Not to location. I am not bashing Singapore, or for that matter, Jakarta. Nor am I singling out Malaysia or Thailand for criticism: it just happens i was caught out in the former and find my self today in buffet-land in the latter. I have little interest in Singapore, but spend a lot of time between Jakarta and Bandung, and probably eat unwisely in both places .... even though I do keep away from buffets
I no longer have appetite for that type of risk. Others might recognise it but accept it, and some simply ignore it. Fair enough.
But to discount it on the basis that food production in Singapore and Jakarta (
) is tightly controlled, that kitchens in those places are as antiseptically clean as operating theatres, seems to miss the point. Which is, again: buffet presentation creates multiple pathways to adulterate food between its exit from the kitchen and delivery to your mouth.So my response is specific to buffet dining. Not to location. I am not bashing Singapore, or for that matter, Jakarta. Nor am I singling out Malaysia or Thailand for criticism: it just happens i was caught out in the former and find my self today in buffet-land in the latter. I have little interest in Singapore, but spend a lot of time between Jakarta and Bandung, and probably eat unwisely in both places .... even though I do keep away from buffets
I eat at the roadside koptiams in Malaysia a lot, but never the roadside food in Thailand.
Apr 15, 2019, 4:59 am
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
On reflection I'd guess that logic leads me to believe that freshly prepared road-side food served directly from the grill poses a level of risk below that of food left exposed to the environment, sneezes and fingers.
I don't want to come across as a loon with a crusade against buffets. It's just that I recognise they hold a level of risk. Yet I know I will grab some pad thai from the food offered in the hotel lounge this evening: if forced, I will rationalise some coherent explanation for this....
Apr 15, 2019, 8:18 am
#22
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: most of them
Posts: 3,283
After having been subjected to too many tourist buffet restaurants in Indonesia I can't understand why anyone would seek them out on purpose. With that sort of budget you can eat like a king at a regular restaurant.
The only buffets I don't mind are the breakfast kind.
I don't know that it matters what country you are in. Food poisoning can happen anywhere. The worst I ever had it was in Taiwan with food from lunch at the restaurant of a 4 star hotel in Taroko. But I do agree that buffets have a certain level of risk due to the difficulty in maintaining the food at the proper temperature over a period of time.
The only buffets I don't mind are the breakfast kind.
I don't know that it matters what country you are in. Food poisoning can happen anywhere. The worst I ever had it was in Taiwan with food from lunch at the restaurant of a 4 star hotel in Taroko. But I do agree that buffets have a certain level of risk due to the difficulty in maintaining the food at the proper temperature over a period of time.
Apr 15, 2019, 12:04 pm
#23
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: CGK
Posts: 2,375
After having been subjected to too many tourist buffet restaurants in Indonesia I can't understand why anyone would seek them out on purpose. With that sort of budget you can eat like a king at a regular restaurant.
The only buffets I don't mind are the breakfast kind.
I don't know that it matters what country you are in. Food poisoning can happen anywhere. The worst I ever had it was in Taiwan with food from lunch at the restaurant of a 4 star hotel in Taroko. But I do agree that buffets have a certain level of risk due to the difficulty in maintaining the food at the proper temperature over a period of time.
The only buffets I don't mind are the breakfast kind.
I don't know that it matters what country you are in. Food poisoning can happen anywhere. The worst I ever had it was in Taiwan with food from lunch at the restaurant of a 4 star hotel in Taroko. But I do agree that buffets have a certain level of risk due to the difficulty in maintaining the food at the proper temperature over a period of time.