iahphx

It's listed as a "new flight" which I think means they don't fly the route yet.

http://www.sw.com.ar/en/home.jsp

I'm happy to hear all the positive feedback about SW -- and somewhat astonished that they're in the AA Advantage program.

BTW, seems like the norteamericanos have taught them some of our strange yield management techniques. I noticed the BA-El Calafate flight stops in Bariloche in each direction. So, of course, SW charges more to fly BA-Bariloche than BA-El Calafate, even though the latter is twice the distance!

And, of course, you also can't buy a cheap El Calafate flight and stop in Bariloche. It might be cheaper to just fly back to BA and start another roundtrip!

Glad airline pricing madness is not confined to the States.

sargento

From what I'm seeing, the flights operate in season. Meaning during their busy summer months (December, January, February). I don't remember if they had this flight operating when I left there as I haven't been in ARG in over a year.

Probably look for them to return in December when there's money to be made on the routes. All other times Mar del Plata is pretty dead, but buisiness does go on there and people do live there..

Aerolineas flies there year round if you really need to get down there to enjoy the warm weather just dont' forget your sunglasses.

vigneron

Just spent two months in Argentina and Chile. Can offer some information, and still have my research notes here so I will type a whole stack of websites I found at the bottom. Hope it helps:

Hotels: I found the NH hotels to be excellent. They have four or five in BA, mostly 4star and 5 star properties and very well priced. One more fashion oriented like a W. One 5 star with swanky rooftop pool. Spanish hotel chain, so a European feel (i.e. Euro style free breakfast buffet with piles of smoked salmon, firm beds, hotels guests who greet each other in the elevator, a lobby that is the hive of activity at cocktail hour, etc). All seem to be historic restored buildings with soaring ceilings and marble bathrooms. Booking through website was touch and go - better to look there and then make booking through expedia or telephone. Aligned to KLM program and someone else. www.nh-hoteles.com

Also used Southern Winds. Earned AA miles. Didn't try to rip me off with gringo price quote like Aerolingus did. Newish planes, but one pilot had a cowboy mentality... tilting the plane and turning three times before landing in BAries.. with the passengers clapping iwth exctiement!! Nothing dangerous... just a showoff.

Hotel tactics: I NEVER got a response from an hotel when I emailed them for a reservation. Sometimes if I phoned them and they heard an ENglish speaking tourist I would be told "we only have suites left" and then found out that was baloney to get me to pay more. I found it easiest to phone and ask, and then compare that to the price that a local travel agent cold get me.

There were tours at the Teatro Colon during the day. Excellent tours. Ask the tour guide about mini-concerts. My concierge did not know about it, but apparently they have mini concerts, such as chamber music or one operatic singer on weeknights out of opera season sometimes. Very inexpensive. Essentally you are attending practice performances.


Flyetalkers were very helpful in my plannign for this trip. Hope this is helpful to others.

www.crucedelagos.cl
www.nidodelcondor.com.ar
la Cascada Hotel Bariloche 0054 02944 441088
Llao Llao hotel (pronounced Yao Yao) is the primo one in Bariloche
NH Hotel Florida newly renovated
NH Latino newly built
NH Hotel in Mendoza (request corner room as its larger)
Hyattt mendoza
Hosteria Isla Victoria in Bariloche
Posada Salentien
www.sw.com.ar


Our wine consumption for our party was,... well a party. We tried all different price points and were consistently pleased.

Very important: "Des Trabador" is Spanish for wine bottle opener. It took us weeks to work that one out, after much confusion. Essential for enjoying those bottles in the room.

Best wines to visit on a tour:
1. Norton (spectacular view from the bar, large scale modern winery production)
2. Rutini (excelent museum for how these estancias were managed in the old days including how workers were paid, etc)
3. Vina el Cerno (excellent to contrast to the large scale Norton, "pure" traditions, WOW "6 vina" wine of only 1600 bottles at 48 pesos ($US17) of 97 malbec and cab sauv blend, all wine in this small scale winery is sold at the door)
4. Finca Flichman - one of the most spectacular winery tours, walk through ancient barrels to get into barrel room
5. Nieto Senetiner - see if you can stop there for lunch. If pre-aranged will make you lunch to eat in the estate gardens.
6. Dolium - (Catena Zapata is next door) My kind of winery.
Its an idea to book a local tourist bus (make sure English) and they will probably go to some of these anyways. The tour companies had different itineraries on different days. Then rent a car and driver the next day through the concierge (make sure the driver knows your itinerary the day before so he can make reservations) and get the others you've missed.
Thre's an excelelnt wine guide book for sale in BAires bokstores with a big bunch of grapes on the cover looking like South America. Excellent investment. Its in spanish and english.

sargento

I agree with all your suggestions.. here's a couple more..

leather jacket shopping... There's a neighbourhood about a 20 minute subway ride from Florida that is two streets long with a wide array of quality jackets and a huge assorment. Just go into the different shops and compare and the prices are about 1/3 or more below what you see in Florida area (tourist area) and better selection. Though don't forget to negotiate a better price... Gaucho..maybe you can comment on this??

clothes shopping... even though Florida offers great savings compared to the greenback and the loonie, there's a shopping mall nearby called Alto Avellaneda (not huge!!) that offers great prices on jeans (Levi's and local brands), sporting goods, suits & ties (authentic Christian Dior) and shoes among others.. they have free shuttle busses directly from your hotel. Just ask your conceirge to book it for you. I've found great items and at a bargain. Though there really isn't anything else to do in this neighbourhood, so plan for a couple hours at the most of shopping (and yes, they give better rates on the greenback in cash than in local currency when shopping..--- actually that's true throughout most shops in the Florida area.

The Cruce de los Lagos, a boat trip that takes you to the highest border crossing in the world between Chile and Argentina is great as it take you through different lakes and fantastic scenaries. It's offered in its traditional 2-day trip (with one-night at their exclusive 4* hotel sorrounded by Nature) AND its Express one-day trip (my preference) offering a quicker glimpse at the same attractions. The trips travel between Bariloche, Argentina and Puerto Montt, Chile.

ohhh. the NH hotels.. definetely worth it.. I stayed there for a night when they had a special promotion and it was reasonably priced!!

Gaucho, I'd love to bring more tourism to Argentina as it truly is a wonderful country with friendly faces. I'll be back as soon as I can find a good MR to take me there...

iahphx

Yeah, I emailed two 4* hotels to see how their rates compared to the travel agents' and neither hotel replied to my email. Bizarre. Last time I was in BA (4 years ago), I booked a promotional rate directly with a hotel and saved a few bucks.

Gaucho100K

Just a small correction: its destapador...

or if you like 'sacacorchos'....

Stewie Mac

We didn't do the Cruce de Lagos trip, as we thought that it would be a bit quick (and pricey !) - instead we took the ferry across Lago Buenos Aires (or General Carrera, depending on which side you're on!), from Puerto Ibanez to Chile Chico, which was breathtaking - a fantastic bluey-green colour, with brilliant blue skies and biting wind. Well worth the trip if you find yourself down in that part of S America (and it's a long way down !).

Also wholeheartedly endorse the winery recommendations above. Dolium is quite an experience, as is Norton but at the other end of the scale !
We went for the 'public transport combined with a lot of walking' option, on account of we were on a very tight budget, but I can see the attraction of a car and driver.

What a great place - can't wait to get back again !

Stew

Gaucho100K

For high end Argentine wine.... please be sure to try:

1) Winery: Bodegas Catena Zapata

- Angelica Zapata Malbec (Merlot and Cabernet also available)
- Catena Alta (Malbec and Cabernet)
- Catena Zapata - Estiba Reservada

2) Terrazas de los Andes / Chateau Cheval-Blanc

- Cheval des Andes

3) Bodegas Nieto Senetiner

- Bonarda Edicion Especial

4) Dolium

- Nobile (special edition of the Special Reserve)

Gaucho100K

For some less expensive options:

Trapiche - Malbec Reserva Especial
Domingo Molina - Malbec
Escorihuela Gascon - Sangiovese (varietal line)

If you want to try a different white wine.... ask about a bottle of Torrontes...

USAFAN

Two questions:
1. Are this ARS or US-dollars?
2. Can I book this or do I have to be a "Gaucho"?

Thanks!

rucas0

1. All the prices in SW Vacations are in ARS. I saw it mentioned somewhere on the site.
2. I think these prices are the same to everybody.

When you try to book it, you got an answer from Les Amis Viajes.

USAFAN

Thanks. Then it's a very good offer. About $322!
Since the Euro is so high, I convinced Mrs. USAFAN to spent our time and money in the Western Hemisphere :-:

iahphx

I think that's a smart move. While there may be a misconception out there that Europe is particularly expensive right now -- which isn't necessarily true if you look at the Euro's value the past ten years (based on the conversion rate of the Mark and Franc) -- there's no question it's not a cheap vacation.

Argentina IS a cheap vacation. It's much easier to have fun when things are cheap. You can afford to do more (just try shopping in Western Europe now) and there's that thrill of "getting a bargain."

USAFAN

Sorry - off-topic in the BA thread

The Euro came 01.01.2002. And a lot of businesses, restaurants, hotels used this to increase the prices. In Germany the Euro is called "Teuro" = "expansive Euro"
The Deutsch Mark was 1,95583 for one Euro. Almost double, but when the Euro was launched, some businesses just changed the currency and not the number: "Steak with frites" DM 22.80 was then "Steak with frites" Euro 22.80
And the end of the story, alone in Hamburg went about 30% of good restaurants out of business.

Back to the topic:
We went twice to Argentina and Brazil. Very nice people, beautiful scenery, very good food & wine, 1A hotels ... and it didn't cost us an arm & leg!

We liked the wine from Argentine, but it's hard to come by here in the US. Wine from Chile, Gaucho100K's "wrong side of the Andes", is plentiful, good and not too expensive. Actually, many of them are imported and distributed by Robert Mondavi.

sargento

In Canada they are also hard to find, though once I found one called Argento. don't try it!! It'll be a matter of time before the good wines make it up to this side of the hemisphere, but once they do, they will have a strong presence allowing us to savour them....