abeyro

Last November I checked the hotel walking to Sunday market.
Was impressed by the decor but what they showed me was a two-storey room (interestingly nice, I admit) but....the room was windowless, literally :-(

Gaucho100K

Excellent post !!!! I agree 200%

iahphx

Yeah, but don't kid yourself. It would be nice if Argentina got its act together. There are so many silly, unnecessary little hassles in visiting Argentina.

In the past 20 some-odd years, I've seen astonishing improvement in the "way of life" in Chile. In Argentina, nothing much seems to change. Personally, I'd like to see some improvement. And I suspect most Argentines would, too.

Eastbay1K

The typical experience of a typical tourist visiting Argentina is a first world experience, with very little in the silly, unnecessary hassle department. The labor/strike situation is probably no worse than most of Western Europe. I've no doubt spent a lot more time than you have in La Argentina, and haven't ever run out of local currency, been able to get where I need to go, etc. That's not to say that every flight arrival and departure hasn't been flawless, or the baggage handlers haven't been at peak performance, or there hasn't been fuel or transit strikes, but the overall level of inconvenience has been de minimis. And for a tourist staying in global-branded hotel, the issues are even lesser. You're going to have food, less likely to suffer power outages, be able to get currency (at one price or another), and also, transportation arranged.

Perhaps consider that this is Argentina's act. Your experiences in Chile have been over a time where Chile entered the First World, but income inequality became some of the worst in the developed world. I'm one of the last to defend Argentina for some of its failings, but I really don't understand how a tourist has much of a hard time there, on a world travel type basis.

Marambio

I always thought OP is a regular visitor to this country, and in some parts I agree with him. Argentina has had too many "missed opportunities" throughout its history, and while living standards are well above what you would call "third world" (in part, thanks to the struggles of labour unions!), they could and should be much better, especially considering the country's resources and the skills of its people. I have some ideas about why this happens, which are too long for a post, but I do think say this is a self-inflicted trauma (I don't like the the "campańa antiargentina" thing, we are not that important).

I have seen a considerable improvement in quality of life during macrismo, mostly because kirchnerismo set the bar extremely low. This was a country were you would need to carry bags of cash to do any medium-size transaction because nobody accepted cards or bank transfers and the biggest note was worth 6 dollars, you were forced to go illegal to convert your pesos into any foreign currency, roads in the provinces were huge potholes surrounded by a bit of concrete, and any imported medicine, spare part, etc. could not be found in stores and took months to get through customs. All of this, with a tax burden which was (and still is) among the world's heaviest. Nowadays things are, in my opinion, getting better, albeit not at the speed anyone wishes, and certainly not at the speed the government promised. Macri promised, and Argentines believed, that in a matter of months all problems would be solved. I don't blame Macri -- he's a politician. I don't blame Argentines for trusting him -- we are a Messiah-loving nation. But most of our problems are structural, and it will take years, if not decades, to be solved. And of course this takes us to another problem. Argentina being Argentina, long-term policies are non existent -- our national horizon changes every 2 years, and each election is the end of the world.

But back to topic. I agree BA is a fantastic city, but I do think that only now, with the peso at 25, prices are starting to become competitive once again. Not compared to Paris or New York, which are indeed more expensive but also are world-class cities BA can't match, but compared with Santiago de Chile, Sao Paulo, Lima, etc. Most of our tourism is not Flyertalkers staying at the Hyatt (sadly!) but middle-class Brazilians and Chileans coming for weekend getaways. Hopefully inflation won't completely catch up with prices, and we can remain competitive.

iahphx

Right, Marambio, I really don't know how "value conscious" the typical international traveler is, but I find it definitely easier to overlook some obvious "developmental shortcomings" when prices are affordable. Like I've been spending time in Brazil this past year and it's obvious to me that the Brazilians have some societal issues that make Argentina's problems look small. That said, Brazil is now a very affordable country for Americans to visit -- unlike the situation of just a few years ago. Unsurprisingly, I've enjoyed my time in Brazil in a way I am certain I wouldn't have enjoyed had everything cost me 50% more. Similarly, I expect to enjoy Argentina more if I don't have to pay Western European prices to visit. Because at the same price, Western Europe definitely delivers a better "experience" than Argentina (if I'm paying First World prices, it should be for First World conditions).

HIDDY

Still a great country for a holiday but it's a bugger to live here.

I just hope Macri can pull a rabbit out of his hat before the next election or I'm afraid this country is destined never to improve.

Gaucho100K

Who is kidding themselves here...? And for the record, I don't recall saying I didn't want Argentina to improve and/or get its act together.

That being said, could you please describe what little hassles you "suffer" when you visit Argentina...? I am really interested to know. Since I am a local and am partial,.I will say that I think that Eastbay1K - who is not Argentine but is a very seasoned international traveler and a very experienced visitor in Argentina has, once again, got it 100% right.

And I will also say that I'm tired of the usual "complaints" about how overvalued the Peso is and how expensive Argentina has become.... as Ive said before, please don't come and expect to have the Recoleta Alvear Palace experience and pay Bangkok Hostel Prices... that aint gonna happen in the 3rd World and aint gonna happen in an OECD nation. I understand the usual FT way of wanting to pay for Coach and get the F Suite, but it does get old after a while.....

As Ive posted here on these boards many times before, Argentina is still nowhere near satisfactory in its learning curve when it comes to the Tourism Industry. We are still way behind and need to invest more in infrastructure, service training, consumer rights (for visitors/tourists), regulatory agency oversight and cross-checks, etc. etc. We must learn as a Tourist Nation that it has to be our goal to have visitors not only come, but that they leave wanting to return.... word of mouth is the best kind of publicity that money cant buy. A lot has improved here over the past 20-25 years, and even the 12 years of Kirchnerista Thugs did not erase all that has been done right... so I am optimistic about the future of Argentina in the International Tourism Scene.

Again, I would love to hear about your hassles and next time you come to town, I would be delighted to invite you for a bottle of Malbec and as a 100% EZE native apologize for the pain & suffering you have incurred in your travels here (past and future)...

Cheers,
Gaucho100K / Alex

HIDDY

Time for you to find another country more suited to your budget I would say. Have you been to Nicaragua, Bolivia or Peru?



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Eastbay1K

That is what I'll call "an interesting perspective." I either enjoy things, or I don't. I enjoyed London plenty when it was so expensive I felt like I was being robbed at gunpoint every time I bought something. And the day there was a tube strike and I had to take a taxi to LHR ... that was stress and an expense I'll never forget, despite the years that have passed. My first three visits to Argentina were in the mid to late 90s, when hotels were as expensive as NYC. I ended up staying in some dumpy Apart-hotel on one trip. The others were on hotel points. I simply adjusted accordingly so I could go, and enjoy things.

Do you enjoy Disneyland (for example) more if it would only be $60 instead of $120 for the day? Or do you only have half as much fun? Is an excellent steak only half as delicious if it is twice the price? Just curious.

Gaucho100K

What a great post, I wish I could have articulated the concepts you touched upon with such clarity.... hats off to you mi querido abogado !!!!

Gaucho100K

Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia also come to mind.....

iahphx

I try not to dwell on Argentina's shortcomings -- I obviously prefer to remember all the good things -- but it's fantasyland not to recognize that Argentina poses some special problems for tourists (which, admittedly, pale in comparison to the problems its citizens face from a society that doesn't function as smoothly as most other "Western" nations. Here's a stream of consciousness remembrance of the unusual problems I've encountered as a tourist in Argentina:

no gasoline in the provinces (repeatedly)
strikes
protests
a subway fire (on the Tigre line)
no cash at ATMs, low ATM limits
no real way of knowing what things will cost in advance, since prices are always changing
difficulty buying a metro card to use the metro
unexpectedly closed attractions
rampant homelessness (better on recent visits)
dangerous sidewalks (always look down walking in BA)
long remise lines at the airports
very high car rental prices

And at least a dozen more things that I'm blocking in my memory.

KayakingNow

I don't think these are unusual problems in any travel destination. I recently spent a week in a major EU capital in which I experienced first-hand train strikes (2 days out of every 5); an airline "industrial action"; a huge demonstration in a prime tourist area protesting the nation's elected leader; terrorist stabbings; and unexpected closure/ cancellation of performances at one of the opera houses due to problems with a fire safety curtain. Many of the things you list can also be experienced in New York (especially the sidewalks!) or San Francisco, but none would ever discourage me from traveling there. I have had multiple trips to BsAs and have to say I have found its residents to be polite and helpful even when difficulties arise, such as the time two years during the transition from paper tickets to subte cards when a clerk opened the gate so I could purchase a card at the kiosk inside the "fare paid" zone. This small gesture was much appreciated and I remember it well because the clerk was genuinely interested in helping me.

hfly

As for iax's list:


no gasoline in the provinces (repeatedly)
Can happen in many developing countries.
strikes
Happens all the time, travel in Europe lately?
protests
Again.
a subway fire (on the Tigre line)
Sounds terrible but localized and could happen anywhere
no cash at ATMs, low ATM limits
Been to Greece?
no real way of knowing what things will cost in advance, since prices are always changing
Generally they are about the same in dollars in the short to medium term.
difficulty buying a metro card to use the metro
I've bought one there, don't know why you find it difficult
unexpectedly closed attractions
??
rampant homelessness (better on recent visits)
Compared to where?
dangerous sidewalks (always look down walking in BA)
No worse than dozens of other cities I know
long remise lines at the airports
Remise?
very high car rental prices
Again compared to where?

Now if you wanted to talk about real things in BA and Argentina in the recent past that were wonky, you could talk about 2-3 hour customs lines entering the country where they sought to register and tax every Ipad and cell phone coming in, including noting your IMEI number if you were a foreigner with stiff fines if you left the country without it. Groups of bicycle riding phone thieves that almost exclusively hit foreigners outside some of the city's top hotels for over two years that were "minors" and seemingly working for/with the police. Policemen on the highways in the provinces that not only looked to prey on foreigners with threats in exchange for bribes, but who would radio ahead and ahead again so that the foreigner could get hit 20 times from MdP back to BA.