Doing business in Argentina
After reading this story, it's hard to imagine why anyone would invest in Argentina. How does Aerolineas fly overseas without having its aircraft seized?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...es-energy.html |
Investing in Argentina is not easy, and this story only covers some of the latest events. The investment climate for large high profile companies has been adverse for over a decade, this is the main reason why FDI into Argentina is at pathetic levels when compared to Brazil, Chile, Mexico, Peru and even Uruguay. Needless to say, FDI is not going to increase anytime soon, at least not with the current K regime in Power.
Aerolineas can fly overseas because it does so with leased aircraft..... else, chances are they would get into legal issues. Also, on paper, Aerolineas is still owned by Spanish Investors.... its a long story but the Argentine Government did a legal intervention of the company but the formal ownership is still in the hands of the Spanish Marsans Group. |
Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
(Post 18579127)
Aerolineas can fly overseas because it does so with leased aircraft..... else, chances are they would get into legal issues. Also, on paper, Aerolineas is still owned by Spanish Investors.... its a long story but the Argentine Government did a legal intervention of the company but the formal ownership is still in the hands of the Spanish Marsans Group.
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Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 18580344)
Interesting. I would still think you could get a judge somewhere to seize one of their planes. And what about Argentine embassy property? Anybody try to take that?
Embassy property is off limits. |
Originally Posted by erik123
(Post 18593716)
They don't own the planes - and every lease also provides an opportunity for a pay-off.
Embassy property is off limits. It's not like Kirchner is playing by the rules. :) |
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 18580344)
Interesting. I would still think you could get a judge somewhere to seize one of their planes. And what about Argentine embassy property? Anybody try to take that?
Most of the defaulted sovereign bonds that are still out there are (hold-outs) are in the hands of hedge-funds... these are play hard boys that know their stuff and dont care to hire the best and harshest lawyers. Dont you think that they would try to grab there birds if they could...? Embassy property is clearly off limits... no chance in hell a proper Judge of a proper legal system would go near them. Im no lawyer, but as far as I understand these assets are protected by various international laws, one of which I believe is the Vienna Convention. |
Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
(Post 18599971)
Im no lawyer
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Originally Posted by Gaucho100K
(Post 18599971)
Embassy property is clearly off limits... no chance in hell a proper Judge of a proper legal system would go near them. Im no lawyer, but as far as I understand these assets are protected by various international laws, one of which I believe is the Vienna Convention.
I would think that if you owe lots of people lots of billions of dollars, some very bad things are likely to happen to you. Including some interesting legal interpretations. Do you think only Kirchner can make up the rules as she goes along? |
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 18600550)
I would think that if you owe lots of people lots of billions of dollars, |
Originally Posted by HIDDY
(Post 18600978)
I suppose the US is debt free?
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Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 18602875)
Of course not. But it pays its creditors -- as do almost all other countries in the world. Even Hugo Chavez! Argentina has decided to thumb its nose at the world and not pay. It's probably not the right thing to do.
As a taxi driver in Mendoza put it to me a few years ago, "as long as there is beef and red wine in this country, things will never get so bad that its people will be forced to demand change of the government". There's a certain truth in this, I think, which shields the government from consequences of its own idiotic policies vis-a-vis international creditors and the likes of the IMF. |
Originally Posted by Siempre Viajando
(Post 18603365)
Maybe not, but so far Argentina seems to be getting away with it. Bringing the country to heel is no simple chore, especially when the government has popular support.
As a taxi driver in Mendoza put it to me a few years ago, "as long as there is beef and red wine in this country, things will never get so bad that its people will be forced to demand change of the government". There's a certain truth in this, I think, which shields the government from consequences of its own idiotic policies vis-a-vis international creditors and the likes of the IMF. My first visit to Argentina was now ten years ago, when talent was fleeing the country, and virtually everyone I encountered was saying things along the lines of, "We keep making the same mistakes over and over again. We choose bad leaders; we don't make use of the potential we have. Now our best people are leaving..." As a somewhat naive and somewhat enlightened sort, I actually read that as a promising sign of a population that was starting to figure things out... for a short while, I even thought things were turning around. But, for lack of a better expression, "here we go again," and now rather abruptly, talented people are leaving again, and those here are all waiting for the next shoe to drop. So... getting away with it, perhaps. But certainly not many - if any - in the country are benefiting from the way things are going here. Leaders may seem to benefit, but even they might find that their jobs would be easier, and their posts more rewarding, if instead of shunning the rest of the world, they could actually engage it. |
Originally Posted by Siempre Viajando
(Post 18603365)
Maybe not, but so far Argentina seems to be getting away with it. Bringing the country to heel is no simple chore, especially when the government has popular support.
I would think that seizing a major oil company, and then refusing to pay for it, might put this back on the frontburner, though. Especially in Europe. The Spanish seem particularly agitated by it (and rightfully so). |
Originally Posted by iahphx
(Post 18600550)
I would think that if you owe lots of people lots of billions of dollars, some very bad things are likely to happen to you.
Unfortunately for the argentinians, things will get much, much worse there before any chance of improvement, I believe. |
To think all this anti Argentina propaganda was started by someone who resents having to pay a couple more pesos for an empanada. :D
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