What is Star Alliance Going to Do Now?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Brisbane AU, Planet X
Programs: QC Life, QFF Gold, VA Gold, HH nothing,IHG Gold
Posts: 1,604
What is Star Alliance Going to Do Now?
United still has its 1 a day flight from Melbourne to Sydney but what about the customers in Brisbane who would want to fly United across the Pacific. Looks like Qantas are going to pick up a whole lot of business now that none of the others really can give connecting flights.
Who is going to end up with the Ansett AN code?
Do Air New Zealand still operate the LAX-SYD service. Maybe they might have to swing a plane via BNE-SYD coming and going from Auckland to keep up connecting passengers across the Pacific.
What do you think is going to happen to the regionals?
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Indecision is the key to flexibility
Who is going to end up with the Ansett AN code?
Do Air New Zealand still operate the LAX-SYD service. Maybe they might have to swing a plane via BNE-SYD coming and going from Auckland to keep up connecting passengers across the Pacific.
What do you think is going to happen to the regionals?
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Indecision is the key to flexibility
#2
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,617
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Bundy Bear:
Do Air New Zealand still operate the LAX-SYD service. Maybe they might have to swing a plane via BNE-SYD coming and going from Auckland to keep up connecting passengers across the Pacific.
</font>
Do Air New Zealand still operate the LAX-SYD service. Maybe they might have to swing a plane via BNE-SYD coming and going from Auckland to keep up connecting passengers across the Pacific.
</font>
What they're currently doing about BNE and other cities is giving away wine and double Air Points along with advertising things such as:
"Air New Zealand have slashed the prices on their return First and Business Class fares from Sydney, Melbourne, Coolangatta and Brisbane to Los Angeles on their non stop services."
http://203.167.234.188/australia/air...ecial/0252.htm
Of course their "non stop services" only exist between SYD-LAX and these fares aren't even on "their services" (let alone non stop) out of BNE, OOL, and MEL. Under these fares NZ are selling Qantas flights from those cities to SYD.
[There's already a thread in the NZ forum on this topic]
UA used to fly a SYD-BNE tag flight years ago, but I doubt they'd start that up again. Especially when it looks like their commitment to MEL is already wavering.
[This message has been edited by Quokka (edited 03-04-2002).]
#3
In Memoriam
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Katoomba (Blue Mountains)
Programs: Mucci
Posts: 8,083
NZ would not be in too bad a shape - they fly BNE - AKL, and can hook into AKL - LAX giving through connections, likewise with other Australian cities. It is the other Star carriers who will have to start making alternative arrangements.
Dave
Dave
#5
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Melbourne, Vic., Australia.
Programs: QF Platinum One (LTG), UA Plat IHG Plat
Posts: 5,836
UA is not ditching MEL despite the loss of the AKL tag. The SYD option is actually better for all concerned as it provides better options to get to SFO and LAX faster and earlier than 842/841 ever did.
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RichardMEL, UA 1K
A Star Alliance Member.
* * *
Ansett Australia: In memory of "One of the world's great airlines"
Feb 17, 1936 - March 4, 2002. R.I.P
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RichardMEL, UA 1K
A Star Alliance Member.
* * *
Ansett Australia: In memory of "One of the world's great airlines"
Feb 17, 1936 - March 4, 2002. R.I.P
#6
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Rio de Janeiro, BRAZIL
Programs: AA 4MM EXP; Starwood Lifetime Plt
Posts: 2,498
Oneworld people have to do without connections in Canada; Star Alliance people have to do without connections in Australia. It all seems to balance itself out.
#7
Join Date: May 1998
Location: australia
Posts: 5,755
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ajnaro:
Oneworld people have to do without connections in Canada; Star Alliance people have to do without connections in Australia. It all seems to balance itself out.</font>
Oneworld people have to do without connections in Canada; Star Alliance people have to do without connections in Australia. It all seems to balance itself out.</font>
On short hops SYD-MEL or SYD-BNE no one in their right mind will do SYD-AKL-MEL just to get their points in Star. On a YVR-Calgary don't AAdvantage members have the option at least of flying Alaskan SEA-Calgary and having the flights count for status and give the elite bonuses that they would receive on a Oneworld carrier.
There seem to be plausible options for Oneworld fliers to get between the major centres of Canada (sorry Regina!) and keep their alliance benefits whereas there are no plausible options for Star Alliance fliers to get between the major centres of Australia and keep their points/benefits within Star.
[This message has been edited by 3544quebec (edited 03-04-2002).]
#8
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 657
Exactly my point, 3544quebec, you've taken the words out of my mouth.
The day Air New Zealand comes out with $66 MEL-AKL-SYD fares, I'll think otherwise http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
You'd be nuts to fly MEL-AKL-SYD.
Sorry, but an 8 hour trip doesn't appeal to me! Even Kapiti ice cream can't make up for that http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Cheers,
Justin
The day Air New Zealand comes out with $66 MEL-AKL-SYD fares, I'll think otherwise http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
You'd be nuts to fly MEL-AKL-SYD.
Sorry, but an 8 hour trip doesn't appeal to me! Even Kapiti ice cream can't make up for that http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Cheers,
Justin
#9
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,811
I just keep hoping that UA will reroute 841/842 to BNE via AKL.
Ozflier
Ozflier
#10
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: CLE
Programs: UA 1K MM, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 929
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by 3544quebec:
If I want to fly YVR-YUL on Oneworld I can fly YVR-DFW-YUL on AA.</font>
If I want to fly YVR-YUL on Oneworld I can fly YVR-DFW-YUL on AA.</font>
#11
Join Date: May 1998
Location: australia
Posts: 5,755
It may not be in keeping with the regulations - of that I have no idea. But it is certainly possible as I have done it myself YVR-BOS-YUL, YVR-JFK-YUL even YYZ-JFK-YUL!
#12
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,617
Virgin Blue likely traveller link candidate
05.03.2002
By DANIEL RIORDAN aviation writer
New Zealand Herald
Air New Zealand and Virgin Blue are planning discussions about passenger alliances after the final collapse of Ansett.
Virgin Blue met Singapore Airlines last week to talk about possible links, and plans to talk soon to Air New Zealand and other members of the Star Alliance, Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey said.
Yesterday, Air NZ spokesman David Beatson said an agreement with Virgin Blue was an obvious solution to Air NZ's lack of an Australian presence.
"Our first preference was to form an alliance with Tesna Ansett but that's obviously no longer viable. So we have to explore our alternatives."
Ansett collapsed for the second time after a five-month battle to save the airline failed.
The Tesna syndicate walked away from the A$3 billion ($3.7 billion) rescue plan when it failed to secure critical deals on airport access. Ansett's final flight landed yesterday morning.
The failure of its former subsidiary leaves Air NZ without an Australian link to feed passengers onto its transtasman flights, and also poses problems flying the other way, where Air NZ passengers will be delivered to Qantas or Virgin Blue for travel within Australia.
Air New Zealand's major reason for buying Ansett was to ensure feeder traffic, although Air NZ has never disclosed how many extra passengers that brought it.
During Ansett's administration period, Air NZ had an interline agreement with Ansett Mark II, put in place soon after the slimmed-down airline started flying under the control of its administrators.
The interline agreement allowed bookings on Ansett services to be made through Air NZ's travel centres, call centres or directly online linking to the Ansett Mark II website via the Air NZ website.
Ansett's demise leaves Star Alliance without an Australian domestic carrier.
Air NZ and its Star partners - including United, Thai Airways and Singapore Airlines - were required to feed its passengers onto Ansett.
[...]
05.03.2002
By DANIEL RIORDAN aviation writer
New Zealand Herald
Air New Zealand and Virgin Blue are planning discussions about passenger alliances after the final collapse of Ansett.
Virgin Blue met Singapore Airlines last week to talk about possible links, and plans to talk soon to Air New Zealand and other members of the Star Alliance, Virgin Blue chief executive Brett Godfrey said.
Yesterday, Air NZ spokesman David Beatson said an agreement with Virgin Blue was an obvious solution to Air NZ's lack of an Australian presence.
"Our first preference was to form an alliance with Tesna Ansett but that's obviously no longer viable. So we have to explore our alternatives."
Ansett collapsed for the second time after a five-month battle to save the airline failed.
The Tesna syndicate walked away from the A$3 billion ($3.7 billion) rescue plan when it failed to secure critical deals on airport access. Ansett's final flight landed yesterday morning.
The failure of its former subsidiary leaves Air NZ without an Australian link to feed passengers onto its transtasman flights, and also poses problems flying the other way, where Air NZ passengers will be delivered to Qantas or Virgin Blue for travel within Australia.
Air New Zealand's major reason for buying Ansett was to ensure feeder traffic, although Air NZ has never disclosed how many extra passengers that brought it.
During Ansett's administration period, Air NZ had an interline agreement with Ansett Mark II, put in place soon after the slimmed-down airline started flying under the control of its administrators.
The interline agreement allowed bookings on Ansett services to be made through Air NZ's travel centres, call centres or directly online linking to the Ansett Mark II website via the Air NZ website.
Ansett's demise leaves Star Alliance without an Australian domestic carrier.
Air NZ and its Star partners - including United, Thai Airways and Singapore Airlines - were required to feed its passengers onto Ansett.
[...]
#13
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,811
Having travelled on Virgin, if I had paid for a business class fare on UA or NZ to the USA,I would not be too happy to sit in their cramped economy cabin with no catering service for my connections to SYD!
#14
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: SYD
Posts: 1,363
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ozflier:
Having travelled on Virgin, if I had paid for a business class fare on UA or NZ to the USA,I would not be too happy to sit in their cramped economy cabin with no catering service for my connections to SYD!</font>
Having travelled on Virgin, if I had paid for a business class fare on UA or NZ to the USA,I would not be too happy to sit in their cramped economy cabin with no catering service for my connections to SYD!</font>
UA could send down 2 A320s to Australia and these 2 aircraft would fly the connections in/out of SYD on behalf of all Star Alliance carriers. I believe NW are doing this in NRT, and providing A320 connections to Busan and Kaosiung (sp).
By way of rough example, UA could fly SYD-MEL-ADL and SYD-BNE vv with two aircraft and time them to meet the SYD arrivals and departures of TG, SQ and UA. UA could also ditch their SYD-MEL 744 tag. And maybe NZ could fly AKL-SYD-PER once a day. Pax would also be able to use these services on the Star RTW fares etc.
I'm sure the schedules would require a lot of thought and consideration, but I wonder if this might work if tweaked a little.
Of cause the cost of having the crew and a/c in Australia etc... would have to be considered. Maybe it would be more worthwhile to operate with 733s as they could be serviced in NZ. And we all know UA have several a/c sitting round doing nothing at the minute.
Suggestions?
#15
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,617
NW can operate their 320s out of NRT to some international destinations because they have international "beyond rights".
While UA has the "right" to fly tags (such as MEL-SYD) that connect their pax to their own international flights, they do not have the right to carry other airlines' connecting pax in Australia or domestic only pax.
UA had "cabbotage" rights for awhile after Ansett first ceased operations, but they were not extended and are unlikey to ever be again.
I believe NZ has the right (or could argue for it) to operate domestically in Australia, but they don't seem to be too keen to enter the domestic AU market under their own name right now. Perhaps they figure lots of ex-Ansetters would have plenty of time these days to create a fuss about it.
While UA has the "right" to fly tags (such as MEL-SYD) that connect their pax to their own international flights, they do not have the right to carry other airlines' connecting pax in Australia or domestic only pax.
UA had "cabbotage" rights for awhile after Ansett first ceased operations, but they were not extended and are unlikey to ever be again.
I believe NZ has the right (or could argue for it) to operate domestically in Australia, but they don't seem to be too keen to enter the domestic AU market under their own name right now. Perhaps they figure lots of ex-Ansetters would have plenty of time these days to create a fuss about it.