Where to now? Re:FFP

 
Old Feb 27, 02, 1:39 am
  #1  
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Where to now? Re:FFP

Ansett is all but gone, and we are going to have to look at a travelling future without our beloved AN. Who are you going to choose? Virgin Blue, or (the previously unthinkable) Qantas. Obviously, Qantas has the advantage with Qantas Frequent Flyer. But would that even be worth it?? It must be so hard to get a reward seat on a QF flight these days. It might be worth sticking with Star Alliance internationally and flying Virgin Blue domestically...what will you guys do, or what have you been doing since September? Will the Star Alliance do anything more to keep an Australian customer base?
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Old Feb 27, 02, 1:49 am
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I am praying for

1. A miracle

If that does not arrive

2. Virgin Blue become full service. I would love to have a Virgin Atlantic type product here.

Interesting report on the 7:30 Report as I write. Whole program devoted to AN it seems, only 10 mins to go.

I will certainly stay with Star Alliance.

Cheers,

Justin
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Old Feb 27, 02, 1:54 am
  #3  
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Thanks, I'm gonna watch it now! It's almost 730 here. Be back on the forum tonight.
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Old Feb 27, 02, 2:25 am
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I knew there was a good reason that Queensland didn't have daylight savings. Get an extra 1 hours warning on TV programming.
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Old Feb 27, 02, 3:59 am
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A miracle? Justin do you expect a little man with a bulging briefcase from Singapore to show up at 501 Swanston St. tomorrow morning and say "Now, let's deal!"... alas SQ are smarter than that, or you'd hope so.

Seriously though, Lang may well win out, and that is a disgrace. DJ would definately propsoer in the AN terminals, but the DJ product really is not one I'd want to fly. Their seats are not comfortable, the pitch is crummy etc. There's no way I'd fly a DJ 737 to PER. It would just be way too uncomfortable.

Unfortunately Star Alliance is in a real pickle - without an Ansett type entity in the market they just only have the feed at internatinal gateways.

It would be nice if UA could get local rights back on SYD-MEL, but that won't happen unfortunately.

I'd have to fly QF domestically and stick with Star for the rest of the world. Well, I suppose I could fly DJ MEL-SYD or even MEL-BNE, but all prices being equal, I'd go QF to at least get some points/status credits (only 6,970 to go to lifetime silver! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif )


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Old Feb 27, 02, 7:05 am
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Well its the darkside for domestic and the Star alliance for international.

I suppose the best we can hope for is for the ACCC pressure the government to allow the internationals to sell the domestic sectors. There are plenty of SQ aircraft that sit round all day in SYD MEL and BNE which could be utilised and there is of course UA on SYD/MEL.

ABC in SYD had an aviation expert (who wasn't from FT I might add) on today, and he said that he could see australian tourism suffering because of the lack of Star alliance link. He said that it was hard to put together trips mixing and matching * with the dark side and as a result Australia was looking a less attractive tourist destination. He said that the Star alliance if they were worth their weight in anything would be bending over backwards to try and rectify this situation anyway they could because it has the potential to seriously damage the alliance.

Anyway - I suppose if AN isnt going to exist post Monday we can only rely on Air NZ. Perhaps they might wish to codeshare on UA SYD-MEL-SYD which would allow us to book domestic seats on the service as NZ can sell domestic services. Maybe even a NZ 737 doing CNS-AYQ-SYD to cater specifically for the foriegn tourism market... but then again I always have been a dreamer! A dreamer with 6590 tier credits to go before lifetime silver :-)
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Old Feb 27, 02, 7:38 am
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Ah yes, but how many loyal Ansetters would fly on NZ?

I'll wear my Star Alliance cap with pride if/when I get on big red again! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

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Old Feb 27, 02, 12:47 pm
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RichardMEL:
Ah yes, but how many loyal Ansetters would fly on NZ?
</font>
The bright ones would.

At least if NZ offered competitive fares and good service on routes the former Ansetters wished to fly.

The bigger question is would NZ be targetted and harrassed by various unions in Australia.

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Old Feb 27, 02, 5:25 pm
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Hey while we're *****ing about Air Canada in Canada, maybe someone could fly a couple of jets up north and compete directly with the real BIG RED.

We all saw the writing on the wall when AC took over CP ... but no, none of your politicians in OZ took notice. So there.... we have ONE airline which we all hate here in Canada, and honestly, even with QF's sparse service, it still offers MORE between SYD and MEL than Air Canada's between YVR and YYZ!

SQ wouldn't cometo the rescue to AN even if it was handed to them on a silver platter. SQ is hamoerraging from NZ govt's counteroffer for NZ shares and SQ board will not be investing in any foreign companies for some time to come.

Pity though.... because SQ REALLY only wanted ANSETT and not Air New Zealand. But by sheer lunacy, NZ forced SQ its only option. And now it's paying for it.
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Old Feb 27, 02, 9:24 pm
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Not that I travel domestically much. But what's the chance that VirginBlue would grow up and fill the shoe AN left?

Would it be possible that it'll expand and eventually be a candidate for the *A?

Either way, the loss of SYD-HKG on *A is a major loss for me. It just left a gaping hole in my RTW itinerary options. Otherwise that sector still has inadequate capacity (QF/CX) from what I've seen.
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Old Feb 27, 02, 9:44 pm
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DJ is too low cost for an alliance like * and likely would have no interest in such. They don't interline(that I know of, anyway) and I believe they don't even use a world liked GDS/res system. Pax would have to schlep their bag from their incoming flight to DJ by themselves etc. Plus no lounges and no FF program means DJ really wouldn't be accepted into * as any kind of full member.

DJ can of course grow and if the Patrick deal goes through with the result of DJ taking the AN terminals for themselves, they'll have lots of room and great facilities (gates!) to use - they'd love it.

Star Alliance is in trouble in the pacific, and they know it.

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Old Feb 28, 02, 1:02 am
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The trouble is DJ is a discount airline. They won't be joining *A. Nor will they compete on the same level as QF as QF is a full service airline. Both are pleased with what they're doing now and I don't see them making any major changes.

goodo
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Old Feb 28, 02, 1:12 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RichardMEL:

Star Alliance is in trouble in the pacific, and they know it.

</font>
Good grief -- the "pacific" is served by Star Alliance carriers SQ, UA, NZ, TG, NH, AC and some spill over from LH and OS. Australia while desirable and important, is not the Alliance make or break market for the "pacific".

Six *A carriers (SQ, UA, NZ, AC, OS, TG) still land pax in various Australian cities anyway. The gap is intra-OZ service on Star Alliance of course, not that Australia has fallen off the Star map.

Furthermore, Star Alliance carriers such as UA can and do partner with airlines outside the framework of Star Alliance. Since talking to QF is probably a non-starter and Ansett is dead, airlines such as UA could very well be looking at talking with Virgin Blue for some level of partnership. It wouldn't be an ideal match for many reasons, but if it were economically justifiable, I'm sure UA would be looking in to it What else can they do? Conjure up another airline??



[This message has been edited by Quokka (edited 02-28-2002).]
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Old Feb 28, 02, 1:19 am
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I feel like the biggest traitor in the world, but I think I will join Qantas Frequent Flyer. I do travel internationally on occasion, and when I do within the next 12 months, it'll be for miles. However, the majority of my travel will be within Australia. For that reason, I want lounge access in Oz. That of course is not possible with Virgin Blue. So I'll probably be joining be joining the bandwagon on the darkside. I'd love to stay with star, but it just won't benefit me for domestic travel. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
I think I'm going to become a very reluctant Qantas customer...
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Old Feb 28, 02, 2:26 am
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by trentis:
Who are you going to choose? Virgin Blue, or (the previously unthinkable) Qantas.</font>
I don't believe QF is unthinkable. I avoided AN for years due to their inferior service and inferior systems. Then, once I was flying AN more, they had their inferior FF scheme. The only gem in AN was the wonderful international service which was easily the best Y class international in the world.

And for what it's worth, I just booked a reward flight on QF MEL-PER for Easter, since my AN booking is worthless now. I had to leave a week before Easter, but that's pretty good: In previous years, there has been absolutely nothing available on QF near Easter by well before this time of year.
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