The New Ansett - My Comments (long)

Old Jan 1, 02, 10:03 am
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: SYD
Posts: 1,361
The New Ansett - My Comments (long)

I basically have 1 question for you folks:

Will people (yourself included) fly the new Ansett (ANIII)?

I've pretty much gone through what I know about ANIII, and thought about how it could possibly compete with QF and DJ.

I certainly do not profess to know everything about ANIII, so please feel free to point out anything I have missed. And if anyone has got any other ideas about how this ANIII will work (either extensions of what I say, or completely different) please let them loose.

As this is not a a particularly active forum on FlyerTalk anymore I will cross-post my article to two other sites on the net. If anything interestings pops up, I'll be sure to post a link. However, I think what we do have here at FlyerTalk is a good collection of occasional and serious domestic flyers. And I am very curious to get your thoughts about the new Ansett.

So on with the show ..... will people fly ANIII?

This depends on what AN will be offering.
I am quite confident they will offer the following, (of which much has been confirmed, or strongly hinted at).
1) Full Star Alliance membership, with grandfathering of original *S and *G from the old AN.
2) Brand new fleet of A319/320/321 aircraft after 12 months.
3) PTVs in all classes.
4) A frequent flyer program linked into the other star carriers, and also linked back into Diners (with 1.5pts MD guess) and one or two other credit cards (presumably Westpac).
5) Comprehensive route network to most of the places you are going to want to fly.
6) Full Golden Wing club for GW members and *G customer.

Then we have the unknowns:
1) Pre-existing points/miles balance from the old AN FF program.
2) The 'ins' and 'outs' of the FF program. By that I mean, upgrades, point earning and redemption, elite status: Star Silver and Gold.

The MilesDependent View:
1)Leisure customers - Miles Lost from Old Program. ANIII must reinstate people's pre-existing points balance in an economical manner. So, how can this be done?

One idea floating round my mind is that people earn double or triple points on AN flights, to the extent of their pre-existing balance. By way of example (using triple miles):
Assume I had 20,000 miles which I lost on the old Ansett. I would need to fly 10,000 miles on the new AN to get back my original 20,000 miles:
10,000 flight miles flown; plus
20,000 additional/bonus miles (equal to my old AN point balance).
TOTAL MILES ADDED TO NEW AN FF ACCOUNT = 30,000 (ie, triple miles, and I've now got back all the miles I lost in the old program). Customers will want to get back their old FF miles, and at the same time they will get used to flying AN again.

2)Bankruptcy - again. Corporates fear that AN will go bust again and throw scheduled meetings into chaos. The leisure customer's biggest worry (and hence reason for not using AN) will be that they will go broke and points will be, again, lost.

I feel this has been dealt with effectively with the announcement of the RyanAir etc. backers. There is now a very strong board behind ANIII which will give it every chance to suceed. But yes, people will always have in the back of their mind "what if they go broke". Yet, people will not have this perception of QF.

3)PTVs. I must say I do not understand the long-term logic of installing PTVs on the planes (subject to my comments towards the end of this e-mail). In the short-term I imagine this will be a good marketing point, as it is something new to the domestic aviation market, and people will want to "check it out".

Which customer segment do Ansett need to attract if the airline is to be successful?Corporates (because they are the ones who purchase the expensive tickets). Which cities do the bulk of corporates fly between? SYD/MEL/BNE. Is the average corporate going to be interested in watching one of these contraptions on a 1-2 hour flight? No. These customers are content to read, watch the news on the main screen, or work. Will AN be in a position to 'woo' the lucrative corporates back to their planes with their PTVs? Not on that one basis.

So, who do PTVs typically appeal to? Leisure travellers. Does the average leisure traveller care about a PTV on a 1-2 hour flight? On the basis of the success of JetBlue in the United States, I would say 'to some degree', however no more so than FF points and total dollar outlay.

With the Australian aviation market as competitive as it is, particularly with the very low cost structure introduced to the industry by Virgin Blue, I just do not see the need to spend what must be significant amounts of money on PTVs for these short flights. AN wants the corporate customers. PTVs might grab a few leisure customers across from QF and DJ, but at the same time it must inflate AN's cost structure.

Furthermore, there is no time to watch a movie or anything meaningful on these short 1hr flights. By the time the snack and drink is served, is there really any time to watch X+ channels of entertainment?

Then we have the 3-4 hour cross-country flights, which is a different matter. On these flights I believe PTVs will be looked upon favourably by both corporate and leisure travellers in the long term (ie, not just a start-up gimmick which people want to "check out"). However, I would be curious to see what % of total revenue is generated by these >3hr flights. Could it be an option to fit X% of aircraft with PTVs, and utilise these a/c on the >3hr flights. A marketing campaign could be developed to reflect this. For example, on AN flights from SYD to PER you have a choice of 10 movies and 10 entertainment channels on your personal TV screen, compared to the overhead screen on QF, and the uhh.... uhhh.... ummm.... on DJ..

I am not at all familiar with the cost of implementing PTVs in aircrafts, however logic tells me that it must be expensive. The comments in the paragraphs above reflect this assumption.

4) Economy Plus Seating. I have not recently heard any mention of AN introducing this product. In my opinion it will be a big mistake if they do not do this.

Let's review their target market: corporates. These are people who fly a lot on full fare tickets, often have elite FF status, and spend many hours per week flying back and forth between MEL/BNE/ADL/SYD/PER. These are people who buy the refundable, changeable tickets which cost more and make Ansett more money. These are the people who MUST come back to Ansett.

So what does (or did) Ansett provide for these high revenue generating passengers?

Most (bordering on all) of these people would be provided with a Golden Wing membership by their employer. Therefore they already have the benefit of priority check-in, priority baggage, and the GW lounge. A large number of these people would also be 'elite' frequent flyers and would obtain more FF points through status, the benefits of the priority waitlist and phone line, the very seldom operational upgrade for Star Gold members, and not much else. With the exception of the operational upgrade (which are so few and far between anyway), you will note that these benefits are all restricted to the ground. Qantas is in the same boat here. AN should look at providing benefits to these high revenue passengers when they are actually in the air. That is what they are paying for after all.

Next, consider the trend of most companies sending their employees around Australia in economy class. What is the most common gripe heard by passengers who fly in economy class? Room aka seat pitch.

AN should provide their full fare passengers and elite frequent flyers with an economy plus section at the forward section of the economy cabin. This section should have approximately 4-5" of extra legroom. This would would involve removing approximately 2 rows of seats from the aircraft.

This is by no means a new initiative from an international standpoint. Notably United Airlines introduced Economy Plus 5-6 years ago and I understand this has been a very successful initiative with business passengers. The UA model does not provide a seperate cabin for their Y+ passengers, it is just tacked onto the front of the Y cabin. It is interesting to note that other airlines such as SAS and BMI have also recently introduced this initiative.

With regard to AN Y+, I would recommend going one step beyond the UA model, and maintain the Y+ as a separate cabin (lav and galley locations permitting). This way AN would be showing its premium customers just how important they are to the airline. And if there is one thing I can guarantee you, anyone who flies regularly in economy would kill for another 4-5" of legroom.

Interestingly, I have noticed a trend among Star Carriers (SK and BD) to introduce economy plus, so I sincerely hope to see AN a firm part of this trend.


I will quite clearly contradict some of my earlier comments here by summing up a possible future for AN, with what I know they are doing, and what I think they should do in addition to this.

It's worth remembering that AN are going head-to-head with QF for the $$$ corporate customers, and are in a position where they *should have* significantly reduced their cost structure. QF was a government organisation and would have been markedly inefficient prior to its float. While QF is no doubt becoming a more dynamic and cost-focused organisation each day (particularly with the new leadership) it must be still over-staffed. Nothing can shake up the cost structure of an organisation more than what AN has gone through. On this basis I would say that AN should be in a position to provide what I outline below at a cost not amazingly higher than QF's existing cost structure. If AN yield's were equal to those at QF, I believe AN could provide these products, have an end-pricing structure identical to QF, and generate a similar profit.

Become the premier airline in Australia.
It is no secret that QF has significantly cut costs in recent years in an effort to keep costs down and survive the price wars with CompassI/II, Ansett Impulse, and Virgin Blue. Mmany of which are visible to customers and include catering and slimline seats to be installed in he 737s. QF domestic was once a ‘full frills’ airline but they have become increasingly concerned with cost-cutting and its domestic service is now somewhere between a ‘full frills’ and a ‘no frills’ airline. Yes, it's better than in the US, but poor compared with almost all Asian airlines and many European airlines.

There may be an opportunity for AN to establish itself as the 'full frills' business and leisure carrier by integrating the various points below into the new airline. They may be able to push QF (to some extent) into no-mans land. AN may be able to snare a sizeable portion of the business/corporate market through offering various products and services which QF cannot currently economically deliver, given their comparatively bloated cost structure. There is no way known to man that QF could ultimately win a war with Virgin Blue given the new entrant’s extremely low cost structure. Therefore, the ‘new lean’ AN could snare a sizeable % of the high-end market from QF by offering passengers an overall ‘better’ product, and DJ could snare the low-end market through maintaining its low cost structure.

1)Introduce the economy plus seating (as discussed above) and demonstrate that they really do look after corporate customers and elite FFs. The extra room also enables one to work more effectively in-flight (ie, easier to write notes or use a notebook PC). Critical.

2)Seat pitch in standard economy and business should be 1-2" more than on QF.

3)Operate a business class cabin across all flights (confirmed). Even though many corporates will not fly their employees in business class, the presence of a sophisticated business class gels with the 'full frills' airline which AN should strive to be. QF have confirmed that their 733/4/8 fleet will be heading to an all Y slimline configuration. Contrary to their press releases, I can guarantee you that these aircraft will operate on the SYD-MEL/ADL/BNE, MEL-ADL/BNE.

4)Install PTVs in each and every seat across the network.

5)Develop in-flight catering like it used to be. Remember the great lunches and rather substantial snacks QF and AN offered all those years ago? The new AN should offer customers a can of coke and don't make them feel like a criminal when they dare request something besides the OJ (ala QF).

6)Keep to your word about operating brand new Airbus jets, and replacing them every 2-3 years. The premier airline in Australia with the most modern fleet of jets in the sky. This one's straight out of SQ's book.

7)More check-in counters - less queues. A 'full frills' airlines doesn't make its customers wait for 30 mins like has happened to me on the old AN and QF. Of cause queues are always going to exist, but they could improve matters in this regard. Clearly this is not a 'sure seller' on its own, but it contributes to the airline's image and would certainly be a player for the business customer who is not GW or *G and is sick to high heaven of waiting in check-in queues - particularly at 7-8am in the morning.

This is what is boils down to in my opinion:

Australia's Premier Airline ...
...for all the reasons mentioned above. Yes the new AN may charge a more, but it provides its customers with a lot more.

A interesting marketing ploy would be to compare the services of both QF and DJ against the Premier Airline, and not realy differentiate between QF and DJ. It would damage QF's position as the number one carrier in Australia if they were to be lumped together with DJ (although it is certainly not true that QF is a no frills carrier). The end result could be along the lines of "QF and DJ provide their poor seat pitch, lunch boxes or no meals at all, no TV screens, no separate sections for FFs... and then there is AN, the Premier Australian Airline.

A key marketing focus for companies with Australian operations is that the new Ansett is 100% Australian owned (whereas DJ and QF are not). I believe the marketing should be targeted at several segments per the following:

1) The ‘middle+ class leisure traveller'. These are the people who fly SQ to Europe because they are perceived to be a better airline. The Australian owned factor may come into this (yes, this contradicts my SQ analogy but the majority of Australians will buy oz-owned only if the oz product is better or equal).

2) Close to 100% of the 'prestigious' corporate, banking and consulting companies. Big dollars here.

Now, I know these companies first-hand and they do have an 'image is everything' culture, although certainly nowhere near to the extent as they once did. These obviously include firms such as Boston Consulting Group, Mckinsey & Company, Accenture, Andersen, PWC, Macquarie Bank, JP Morgan, CS First Boston, ABN Amro and the other US/European (possibly Asian) investment banks, Mallesons, Blakes and the other top 15-20 law firms, Grant Samuel, Babcock & Brown, the Japanese finance and leasing houses, the other many boutique financial services firms which employees all around Australia, and corporates such as News Corp etc..

It may sound 'simplistic' but these companies spend big dollars renting out prestigious office space, and if there is not 'much' in it from a $$$ perspective, I believe they would choose to have their employees fly on the more prestigious airline in Australia. These corporates do not send their junior-mid employees business class because the cost differential is too high, the premier Ansett cost differential would not be in the same ball park. As a little evidence of the corporate way of thinking, how many of these type of companies send their employees on Virgin Blue?

I believe if they could crack this market AN would be well on their way. Critical to emphasise that the new AN is focused on its business customers, through the economy plus seating/cabin, and the ability to actually get work done in the economy cabin.

3) As many of the more conservative (not necessarily completely penny-pinching companies) as possible including Telstra, Coles Myer, AMP, the 4 banks, Boral, IBM etc. I think the Australian owned and providing a better product would have to come through here. Plus the business focus once again, more room, work on planes.

4) Sporting teams - AFL, ARL, ACB. People have always associated these with Ansett, and it really is great publicity. But let's focus on more 'classy' adds (I'm sure many Australian cricket watchers will remember fine adds with cricket balls being thrown down aisles).

International Issues
When approaching corporates to devise exclusive agreements with AN, an important issue arises as to whether AN can compete with the international deals QF can develop. In this regard, I firmly believe AN should focus on the benfits the Star Alliance network can provide. Ideally, a Star world-wide agreement could be devised for Australian originating traffic, as discussed below.

So where do most corporates send their Australian based executives? Asia, Europe and USA.

ASIA, EUROPE: Singapore Airlines (“SQ”) are regarded as one of the world’s finest airlines, and this coincides with pushing AN as the premium Australian carrier. SQ offer exceptional connections through to Europe, and right through Asia. From an Asian standpoint, the disadvantage is the lack of non-stop flights. However, SQ can get you virtually anywhere to Asia same day except Japan/Sth Korea. Also of importance, SQ are regarded as having one of the most modern fleets in the world (as will ANIII).

USA: I would be pushing the UA Economy Plus seating available for corporates and elite FFs, which coincides with the product AN should introduce. I do not believe there is much of a difference between QF and UA except for this Y+ seating.

Agreements should also be reached across the entire Star network. I am not aware of OneWorld (or Star at this point in time) approaching corporates with regard to their multi-airline networks. Most large Australian based companies seem to have in place an agreement with QF or AN (until recently). So getting off the track a bit, this could be an area Star push into on a world-wide level.

***** SUMMARY *****

    [1. Rewrite parts to make clearer, and UBB]
    [2. Edited for grammar and spelling, and rewrite to make a few things clearer]

    [This message has been edited by MilesDependent (edited 01-01-2002).]

    [This message has been edited by MilesDependent (edited 01-01-2002).]
    MilesDependent is offline  
    Old Jan 1, 02, 4:44 pm
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    of course i will fly ansett if i can get MP miles..
    cranford is offline  
    Old Jan 1, 02, 5:08 pm
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    Excellent post MilesDependent!

    Another big revenue spinner I see that is worth pursuing is Government contracts. Target State Governments Bracks has already encouraged the Victorian public service to fly AN.

    What you say about cutbacks on QF etc. is correct. I've been looking around for fares from SYD-HKG (see topics in CX, SQ and QF fora) and for the 9 hour flight, I'd rather fly SQ for the extra $50 even though the flight is through SIN and I'd also rather fly CX even though the fare is about $160 more than QF (the lowest fare). The reason is that QF service cuts have been enough to make me feel that QF service is just not good enough for 9 hours. I've flown QF from SYD-MEL-SIN-LHR and it was not good. If AN can be perceived as having better service and be perceived alongside SQ (especially), then I think it will be to their benefit.

    The only problem I see, is that with more check-in counters, that means more staff, and more staff costs. In a sense, the number of staff the original AN had per plane did not help their cause. Labour is, as many of you will know, one of the highest costs of running an airline.

    However, a lot of thought has gone into this post, thank you!

    Clement Lowe is offline  
    Old Jan 1, 02, 7:02 pm
    Join Date: Aug 1999
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    Thanks for your insights.
    I've got some Sydney gateway connections with United in February and March and I've held off buying QF tickets until I see what AN3 will be offering .I hope they start advertising soon!
    ozflier is offline  
    Old Jan 1, 02, 10:10 pm
    Join Date: May 2001
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    I replied to this on the YSSY board, but it seems to be getting more attention here. Funny, I thought this board was dying!!
    Here is what I wrote:

    Firstly, congratulations on a wonderful post, one of the most indepth I have seen for a very long time. I agree with you on most points. Regarding the Y+ concept: as the aircraft were originally going to UA, they would have been fitted with a Y+ cabin, right? As Tesna are currently saying (according to the Ansett site) that aircraft will only have a Business Class cabin and 'Main' cabin, their economy class may work in a similar light to DJ, where full fare pax sit at the front of the cabin which has a bigger seat pitch. Nonetheless, I agree with you that this concept should be used in their marketing campaign.
    With the appointment of a very experienced CEO and chief financial officer announced yesterday, and the backing of Air Partners (RyanAir, Continental, America West etc), I believe Ansett is in with a very good chance. As long as they do the right thing by their FFs, and make sure that the public are aware that there are big investors behind them, people should be willing to fly with Ansett again. I sure love the idea of Ansett once again becoming Australia's premier airline.
    Once again, congrats on a fantastic post!

    trentis is offline  
    Old Jan 1, 02, 11:00 pm
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    I like all of the suggestions but the big killer here is costs - ie: better catering == mucho $$. More staffed positions == mucho $$. AN can't compete on costs with DJ, and barely could with QF. How can they make money trying to compete with additional costs like this.

    AN already wins with e-checkin (which QF has yet to do) - I used it twice in the past few days, and bypassed lines and checkin totally (not that there were any, sadly). That is a cost saving for AN that the pax like. I love hopping up, sticking my card in and getting a BP in seconds, and you feel like you have some measure of control over the process, even if all you get left is a stinkin' middle seat (as with today!).

    We know Fox/Lew AN faces a huge uphill battle, and I think we should expect that if it is going to succeed at all, it has to start more modestly. Spending huge $$$ upfront seems bad karma. Although you have the double-edged sword of marketing - if you don't spend the $$ on service, FF stuff, and telling people, they won't come.

    The bottom line is that AN can't be what it once was. Personally I think a full service, 2 class airline idea is sheer folly and is doomed, but I will support them with my heart and wallet whatever happens, because Ansett is _my_ airline of choice.

    We have to wait and see what happens...

    RichardMEL, UA 1K
    A Star Alliance Member.
    RichardMEL is offline  
    Old Jan 1, 02, 11:01 pm
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    From today's Sydney Daily Telegraph:

    Frequent flyers flights plan
    MORE than 2.6 million Ansett travellers might recover frequent flyer points they lost in the collapse of the airline.

    A plan to reward travellers with old points for travelling with the new carrier is being negotiated with the Ansett administrators. However, only a percentage of the points are likely to be returned to loyalty card holders.
    It was also announced yesterday that James Hogan, an Australian executive working in Europe, would become the new CEO of the airline.

    He was formerly chief operating officer of UK airline BMI British Midland.

    An Ansett spokeswoman said Mr Hogan would take up his new job before February 1, the scheduled date for the revived Ansett to fly again.

    Up to 10 separate arrangements for the frequent flyer points were being discussed, Ansett administrator Mark Mentha said last night.

    One suggestion involves rewarding travellers with up to five old points for every registered air mile flown with their new carrier.

    It is understood that old points were likely to be rewarded according to the frequency of travel used by Global Rewards travellers.

    Travellers would also chalk up new loyalty points with the new carrier each time they travelled.

    Passengers who stockpiled large numbers of points with the old carrier were likely to get a better rewards deal under the plan.

    A final agreement on the old points-for-new scheme is expected to be sealed at talks between Tesna and the Ansett administrators, Mark Mentha and Mark Korda early in the new year.

    It is believed the deal could apply immediately the expected takeover of the carrier by the Tesna syndicate becomes official on February 1.

    They are believed to be putting in place a series of arrangements to win creditor support this month for their $1.1 billion offer.

    Ansett creditors, frequent flyers included, are expected to approve the takeover at a mass meeting in Melbourne on January 29.

    Mr Mentha said the points deal was one of several issues that signified the seriousness of the Fox-Lew bid.

    Ansett sources say the stored points average about 26,000 a member and could be worth up to $1 billion.

    Ansett's 2.6 million registered frequent flyers and 1.3 million Golden Wing Club members were deemed by a recent Federal Court judgement to be unsecured creditors of the airline, and will be admitted to the vital creditors' meeting on January 29.

    The Fox-Lew group also announced the appointment of Adam Moroney as Ansett's new chief financial officer.

    He was previously senior vice-president finance and chief financial officer for Air New Zealand.

    kpc is offline  
    Old Jan 1, 02, 11:12 pm
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    <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by trentis:
    as the aircraft were originally going to UA, they would have been fitted with a Y+ cabin, right? </font>
    Sorry, but I don't think so. Besides, UA's seats and specs are far different to what AN seems to be suggesting will be the norm for the airline. Besides, not all the 320 airframes that seem to be destined for AN are UA slotted a/c. The demo 320 that came down was in UA livery, but that doesn't really mean much - final outfitting (seats, IFE etc) is done on a customer by customer basis - if the a/c are going to AN "as new" they won't have UA interiors.

    I think Y+ would be a mistake for AN. AN needs to go a AA style MRTC concept - sway the pax by telling them "we have 2" more than any other domestic airline - at every seat!" - that way, some jo blow who pays full fare Y at the last minute to fly to SYD will get decent pitch, even in a middle.

    I believe that AN need to focus on what is individual to them that QF/DJ don't have and what is right for the customer. So: push e-check in, set up and push a decent FF scheme. set up and push a better pitch in Y - even if you have to lower your A320 capacity to ~136 or so, I believe this, if managed properly, will still lead to decent LF's and yield. Fly "smarter" - don't put on gourmet food in Y and J when everyone knows it's next to impossible to get a decent airline meal - concentrate on giving value that the customers want. Give laptop power at every seat (see QF and DJ match that!). Make your product appeal to those who will want to buy it, and make those who want to buy it higher yielding pax - business pax - they may well be happy to sit in Y if they get 2"+ more of legroom, laptop power, e-check in and a decent service level. These are the things they care about.

    All IMHO of course.

    RichardMEL, UA 1K
    A Star Alliance Member.
    RichardMEL is offline  
    Old Jan 2, 02, 3:23 am
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    Thanks for the comments. Great to see some discussion happening in the AN board again!!

    I do agree with some of your points Richard. However I do not believe what you have proposed is enough to get people back to AN.

    1. Costs
    The cupboards have been cleared out at Ansett. Everyone was made redundant, and some will come back. The staff numbers have dropped significantly, yet the route network has not dropped to anywhere near the same extent. So fixed costs have therefore been significantly reduced.

    The old AN was swamped by interest-bearing debt. This would not be the vase for the new airline. Another reduction in fixed costs right there.

    Clearly, ANIII cannot, should not and will not compete with DJ on cost.

    I understand AN have some pretty deep pockets to fund these potential improvements, particularly with the new investors.

    2. Y+ vs MRTC

    <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RichardMEL:
    I think Y+ would be a mistake for AN. AN needs to go a AA style MRTC concept - sway the pax by telling them "we have 2" more than any other domestic airline - at every seat!" </font>
    I am not going to rewrite what I said in my previous post, but Ansett needs the corporate, high-rev dollars. The high-rev customers Ansett want on their planes later this year are currently flying around on QF. That is the issue. ANIII need to offer something special which will get these people back. They need a better product.

    So, it all comes back to the establishment of a premium airline, which does charges a little bit more per ticket than QF. They should have a Y+ section which they can use (in addition to all the other points I raised) to target the high-rev customers. MRTC is great but I do not believe this alone will get those high-rev passengers off the QF planes. However, to fit with the premier airline image, I am still in favour of standard ANIII Y seats having more pitch than QF.

    3. Modest Start
    <font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by RichardMEL:
    We know Fox/Lew AN faces a huge uphill battle, and I think we should expect that if it is going to succeed at all, it has to start more modestly. Spending huge $$$ upfront seems bad karma. Although you have the double-edged sword of marketing - if you don't spend the $$ on service, FF stuff, and telling people, they won't come.</font>
    Same point here really. You need the high-rev passengers, and the marketing, to differentiate from QF and DJ. Otherwise, don’t bother. People are not just going to start flying AN again. You have to give them a reason.

    4. Other
    Laptop power fits with my image of a premier airline. Good idea.

    E-checkin is a good point. If there's a way to reduce costs and keep the customers happy, that's fantastic. I think something along the lines of 100 FF points each time you use e-checkin would encourage people to use it.

    Meals. I do not necessarily believe ANIII needs to introduce “gourmet meals” onto their flights. Just bring back the decent meals we got 6 years ago. Yes this inflates costs by, I’m guessing, $8 ticket. But this (together with all the other points in my original post) fits with the premium airline concept.

    5. Summary
    To generalise matters to the extreme, there are two broad markets.
    1. High revenue business customers
    2. Leisure travellers
    DJ have got the second one sewn up. QF are trying to service both. ANIII should focus on the first category and offer a product which is better than QF, to the extent that it will drag customers away from QF.

    This is not going to be easy, but IMHO, the only way it can be done is to market the airline as a premier carrier. I repeat what I said above: the people Ansett really want flying on their planes later in the year, are currently flying around on QF. That is the issue. ANIII need to offer something special which will get these people back.

    The above is also just IMHO of cause

    [This message has been edited by MilesDependent (edited 01-02-2002).]
    MilesDependent is offline  
    Old Jan 2, 02, 9:15 pm
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    Posts: 5,819
    Re: woo'ing the business pax is why Y+ will *not* work (IMHO). Consider, you need to jump on a plane with little notice. You go up to AN and you want to buy a full Y tix. Y+ seats have already sold out/been allocated, and there's no space in J. So you have to sit down the back in 22E. Is that going to win AN any repeat business? No! They'll think "gee, I might as well go on Qantas next time and possibly get bumped into J"(more J seats on the 767's than AN's 320'2/321's will provide). *however* if you have a MRTC concept, that last minute walk up pax is _assured_ of more comfort. If they want to pull out their laptop, they don't have to worry about not being able to work when the bozo in front reclines in their face if they have a few more inches of space in row 22.

    That's the crux of my point as to why Y+ is bad (IMHO). Besides, how about the stories you hear every so often of pax on UA "moving up" to Y+ after the door is closed - that makes the value of the product next to nothing except if you can get it pre-assigned - and that won't include the last minute walk up pax (specially as AN domestic never did seat assignments in the past until checkin).

    RichardMEL, UA 1K
    A Star Alliance Member.
    RichardMEL is offline  
    Old Jan 2, 02, 10:48 pm
    Join Date: Jun 2001
    Location: Sydney
    Programs: QF Gold (LTS) and VA Gold
    Posts: 834
    Would I fly AN again ... sure will - their product walked all over that of the QF product.

    I personally don't think AN failed because their product was a problem - I think the major problem was in the marketing and the people holding the purse strings.

    The new AN will emerge as a lean mean fighting force - with a fleet that will require a lot less time out of action being repaired. I have an entire AN fleet movement schedule for July 29 and let me tell you it is a very sad sight indeed. RMM is in for Heavy Maintence (HVM) in MEL same goes for HYK CZP, CZA and CZW were in for HVM in CHC, JJY was in for HVM in CNS, JJY was positioning to BHE to go into HVM, JJQ was in BNE for HVM, JJX was in TSV for HVM and last but not least XFR was in BNE undergoing HVM.

    Now this is a very sad roll call and excludes those aircraft undergoing normal line maintence for part of the day in question. There is just no way you can make money with aircraft down left right and centre. To make matters worse the existing facilities to maintain the fleet were overflowing so the airlin had to pay third parties to maintain their own fleet such was the bad state of affairs.

    The new AN with all new planes rotated every two years will avoid this major cost.

    I think the maintence issues can be then translated to the marketing and the number of premium passengers flying the airline. If you are constantly being delayed due to planes being unserviceable or worst still grounded then you are going to take your business else where.

    If the new AN can entice these people back, and offer the service they want and then keep these customers flying AN then they have a fighting chance. This of course has to be coupled with the costs can being kept down (without reducing the quality of the product offered to the customer) and the marketing people efficiently putting the AN name foremost in the public's mind when they go to book an airline ticket.

    Af for the FF points - would I like some of my points back - of course I would... but it still remains to be seen if we will. Somehow I doubt it - but it will be interesting to see how things pan out now that FF point holders have been deemed as creditors and can expect to receive 5-15cents in the dollar as an unsecured creditor.

    Best Regards

    luftaom is offline  
    Old Jan 3, 02, 4:49 am
    Join Date: Jan 2001
    Location: Brisbane AU, Planet X
    Programs: QC Life, QFF Gold, VA red, HH Silver, IHG Gold
    Posts: 1,532
    1. PTV is coach forget it, the extra expense would not be worth it, are they reliable enough at the moment anyway. Business Class passengers this would be a good idea, PTVs for the long distance Syd/Mel to Perth flights should be a priority.
    2. Y+ no don't like this idea, maybe an extra inch or 2 at the front of Y class yes, you want customers to have a sense expectation of what they are going to expect, most chains, franchises work on the concept of the customer knows what they are going to expect all the time,
    3. An extra inch or 2 in coach may be a good idea, I know the A320 were pretty good with the seat pitch anyway so make sure they don't make it any smaller.
    4. The premium idea I don't really think is going to work, why are Qantas going to have 40 one class aircraft, partly because there isn't the demand for business class passengers on all routes. So good food is not really that good of an idea, Also the airlines least effected by 9-11, Southwest, Airtran, Ryanair, Easy jet are all low cost carriers.
    5. More checkin staff, what, that is going to increase costs, forget it, E-check in kiosks are a good idea to promote heavily,
    6. They need a cheaper adminstration of there frequent flyer program, what was there point in sending me a whole envelope of stuff to me if I am only good to fly once or twice a year anyway, use the internet to find out what you want, Virgin and Impulse have done a good job in Australia of forcing and educating flyers to consult the internet.
    7. What was the point of the second magazine on the original Ansett Vive, one magazine is enough.
    Thanks for the original post as it has given us all something to think about.

    Indecision is the key to flexibility
    Bundy Bear is offline  
    Old Jan 3, 02, 10:36 am
    Join Date: Feb 2001
    Location: Santa Cruz CA USA
    Posts: 1,643
    There are no Ansett flights now out of Alice Springs. Do you think there might be in the next few months? (I'm expecting to arrive at 10 AM by train and am trying to make an evennig connection to the US - the available flights leave before noon and the connection feels uncomfortably tight.)

    SylviaCaras is offline  
    Old Jan 3, 02, 4:06 pm
    Join Date: Aug 1999
    Location: Australia
    Posts: 2,587
    My organization provides for a business class travel entitlement on services outside of the Eastern Australian states.I am sure a lot of companies ,government entities do.I will still be looking for a reasonable level of comfort and catering in that respect.QF does seem to be heading in the direction of downgrading or eliminating their J class , so I am hoping the new Ansett comes up with some form of alternative.
    ozflier is offline  
    Old Jan 3, 02, 4:21 pm
    Join Date: Nov 2000
    Posts: 657
    Based on statements by Lindsay Fox, it appears both Y+ and PTVs all round are on the books.

    Whilst AN may become a premium carrier (not hard to do now when QF and DJ are your main competitors), I doubt AN can get away with charging premium fares (any premium on top of QF).

    Ahh, Vive - I think AN can just buy other magazines for pax and save on production costs. Panorama was one of the better airline magazines out there anyway.


    Skystar is offline  

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